one verse for the trinity?

steve4.truth said:

Challenge: there is not one verse in the Bible that teaches the trinity--3 persons, all 3 God, actually one person.

conclusion: If this were the "cardinal doctrine" of every mainstream church, it should be clearly and explicitely taught in at least one verse.

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Isaiah 48:16 "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit have sent Me.''

1 Timothy 3:16 Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is very deep indeed: God was made visible in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed to the gentiles, believed in throughout the world, taken up in glory.

Heres one, its from the New World Translation.
Malachi 3:1 1”Look! I am sending my messenger, and he must clear up a way before me. And suddenly there will come to his temple the [true] Lord, whom YOU people are seeking and the messenger of the covenant in whom you are delighting. Look! He will certainly come,” Jehovah of armies has said.

Take a closer look:**I will send my messenger before Me… Jehovah of armies has said.
Before who?
Who is the Me being referred to here?
It is Jehovah.
That means the messenger (John the Baptist) was to clear up a way before who?

Before Jehovah.
And who is Johns Lord?
Jehovah of course.
So who came to John at the river Jordan?
Jehovah
And his name was Jesus!!!!!

I am going to show you where the Holy Spirit, God is ONE with Jesus.

Acts Of Apostles 20
28 Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Who's Church? God's.
Who placed the Bishops? The Holy Ghost [Spirit]
Who's Blood was shed? Jesus

So if the Holy Ghost places Bishops in His Church - and purchased by His own Blood - then what does that say?
Father - Son - and Holy Ghost [Spirit] are ONE.

There is no seperation of the Three in that verse... but an understanding that ALL Three are ONE.

2 John 5:
6 This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ: not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth, that Christ is the truth. 7 And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

And that verse states implicitly that all THREE are ONE.
Do you see that?

2 John 3
16 In this we have known the charity of God, because he hath laid down his life for us:

We have known the charity [LOVE] of God - because HE laid down His life for us.
Who laid down their life for us?
God.

If it was not God, then why do they state we know HIS love because HE laid down HIS life for us???

steve4.truth said:

Only 2 persons, only Father is referred to as God. Doesn't say they are all one person.


Only 2 persons, Only Jesus called God (if you accept these spurious manuscripts), Doesn't say they are one person.
Bruce M. Metzger in his Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament concludes: “No uncial (in the first hand) earlier than the eighth or ninth century . . . supports θεός [the‧os′]; all ancient versions presuppose ὅς or ὅ; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century testifies to the reading θεός [the‧os′].” Today, most translations concur in omitting any reference to “God” in this text.

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If we take the totality of Scripture we will find that there is a Spirit, a Father and a Son of which all have the title, God.

The Spirit has a personality, the Father has a persoanlity and the Son has a personality. All three presonalities have the same character and essence.

All three feed and exist off each other.

John 16:13-15 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. "All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

Now who is the Spirit of truth?

It's Jesus and the Father coming to us as the Spirit of truth.

Let's continue confirming this thought.

John 14:15-20 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever, "even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. "I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. "A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. "At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

Jesus said they knew Him. Jesus says He dwells with them and in them.

Notice who the Spirit of truth is? Jesus says He will not leave them as orphans, He will come to them.

He then goes on to say that when we have the Spirit we also have the Father and the Son.

1 John 2:23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

2 Corinthians 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit...

When our relationship with God is restored, it's restored to a God who is trichodomy in nature.

2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

We, as finite human beings, may not completely understand our infinite God but we can see in Scripture there is a trichodomy manifestation of the Godhead.

We know that is was God alone who created the heaven and earth but it was His Word through His Spirit.

Genesis 1:1-3 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters. Then God said, "Let there be light''; and there was light.

Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

It's this same eternal word who created the world and who also became flesh.

John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Hebrews 1:1-2 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

I too have struggled many years with the Trinity doctrine and have not yet completely understood it nor do I believe I ever will, at least in this life. But I can say that if we continue to argue and strive to make God into something we can completely understand we will miss many opportunities to preach the Gospel to a lost and dying world.

So as for me, I can see a tri-unity in the Godhead. Can I completely understand it? No. Have I tried to understand it? Lord knows I have. I have come to believe that God is past finding out by the finite, even those who say they have the answer are not without their flaws.

So to me, let us allow the totality of Scripture interpret the single verses.

I too have struggled many years with the Trinity doctrine and have not yet completely understood it nor do I believe I ever will, at least in this life. But I can say that if we continue to argue and strive to make God into something we can completely understand we will miss many opportunities to preach the Gospel to a lost and dying world.

So as for me, I can see a tri-unity in the Godhead. Can I completely understand it? No. Have I tried to understand it? Lord knows I have. I have come to believe that God is past finding out by the finite, even those who say they have the answer are not without their flaws.

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Reminds me of something i read ...

Saint Augustine tells us that "he was walking on the beach, deep in thought, trying to unravel the mystery of the trinity. He saw a small boy using a seashell to carry water from the sea to pour it into a hole he had made on the beach. When Augustine asked what was up to the boy he said that he was going to empty the ocean into that hole. When Augustine pointed out the futility of the attempt the boy told him that the attempt of Augustine to unravel the mystery of the trinity – his attempt to understand the nature of God – was even more futile. Then the boy disappeared, meaning that he was an angel."


Witness Christ: Walking through life with God: Trinity Sunday (Mt 28:16-20)

I'd like to chime in too on this:

k4c said:

Isaiah 48:16 "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit have sent Me.''

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How in the world do you get that this indicates a trinity? God and his spirit sent Christ. Grammatically, it shows that God and Christ aren't the same... one doesn't "send" one's self. One being may "go" ... but it isn't "being sent" if you're doing the sending.

1 Timothy 3:16 Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is very deep indeed: God was made visible in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed to the gentiles, believed in throughout the world, taken up in glory.

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According to what?! Check the original greek yourself:
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/1ti3.pdf

No where does it say "God" was made visible in the flesh. That's a pretty gross mistranslation.

NIV: "Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body , was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory."

BBE: "And without argument, great is the secret of religion: He who was seen in the flesh, who was given God's approval in the spirit, was seen by the angels, of whom the good news was given among the nations, in whom the world had faith, who was taken up in glory."

Douay-rheims: "And evidently great is the mystery of godliness, which was manifested in the flesh, was justified in the spirit, appeared unto angels, hath been preached unto the Gentiles, is believed in the world, is taken up in glory."

ASV: "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory."

I can only fathom that the KJV got the idea that "God" was manifest in the flesh due to "eusebeia" being translated as "godliness" instead of "devoutness." This does not mean "the act of being God" ... it means "inner piety, spiritual maturity, or godliness."

Just another example of the KJV being poorly translated.

WarriorAngel said:

Acts Of Apostles 20
28 Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops,to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

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Again... I strongly suggest to read more than one translation to grasp the concept of the original language.

A: "ho pneuma ho hagios" translated as "the Holy Ghost" is dishonest. Pneuma literally means "breath." Yes, "breath" can have a connotation of one's "spirit"... no, this is not a "Ghost."

B: "episkopos" does not mean "catholic bishops." ... it means someone in a supervisory position. This verse does not make bishops infallible, nor does it guarantee that someone given the title of a "bishop" now speaks for God.

More to the point: C: The life of God's son was sacrificed. God's "flesh and blood." This doesn't mean that the "holy ghost" bled.

The Gregorian; I'd like to chime in too on this:

How in the world do you get that this indicates a trinity? God and his spirit sent Christ. Grammatically, it shows that God and Christ aren't the same... one doesn't "send" one's self. One being may "go" ... but it isn't "being sent" if you're doing the sending.

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Isaiah 48:16 "Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord God and His Spirit have sent Me.''

I can send my word to my Army buddies on the front line. The Angel of the Lord was the tangible manifestation of the Word througout the OT and Jesus was the tangible manifestation of the Word in the flesh in the NT.

No where does it say "God" was made visible in the flesh. That's a pretty gross mistranslation.

NIV: "Beyond all question, the mystery

of godliness

is great: He appeared in a body

,

was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations,

was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory."

BBE: "And without argument, great is the secret of religion: He who was seen in the flesh, who was given God's approval in the spirit, was seen by the angels, of whom the good news was given among the nations, in whom the world had faith, who was taken up in glory."

Douay-rheims: "And evidently great is the mystery of godliness, which was manifested in the flesh, was justified in the spirit, appeared unto angels, hath been preached unto the Gentiles, is believed in the world, is taken up in glory."

ASV: "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory."

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Who is the He that was manifested in the flesh? Was it John the Baptist? Was it Elijah? It doesn't say who it was in verse 16. So how do we determine who was the one being manifested in the flesh? Well, all we have to do is read the context and see who was being referred to in the verse before.

-- New King James
1 Timothy 3:15 but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

-- American Standard
1 Timothy 3:15 but if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how men ought to behave themselves in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

-- Revised Standard
1 Timothy 3:15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

-- Simple English
1 Timothy 3:15 But if I'm late, you will know how must live in God's family, the community of the living God. We are the pillar and foundation of truth.

-- New American Standard
1 Timothy 3:15 but in case I am delayed, I write so that you may know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.

-- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha
1 Timothy 3:15 but in case I should be delayed, I want you to know how people ought to behave in God's household, that is, in the Church of the living God, pillar and support of the truth.

-- New American with Apocrypha
1 Timothy 3:15 But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.

-- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha
1 Timothy 3:15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

I figured this was coming, which is why I started this thread:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7400838/

John 17 (esp. 20-23)... Yes, the Father and Son are "one." But, when any trinitarian reads these 4 verses, "one" simply means "united in purpose" ... but when reading the same phrase of the Father and Son, they change it drastically.

strange.

Also, I'd like to see the original texts saying these "Three" are one. The Father and Son are only two people, joined in holy spirit.

Reading Steve's post (no. 15) made me laugh about the only verse in the whole Bible supporting the trinity as being an insertion. It just shows how corrupt some translators were and how many were duped into believing the lie.

Old and New Testament Parallels of God the Father and God the Son

Exodus 3:14 - God says "I AM who I AM" - John 8:58 - Jesus says "Before Abraham was, I AM" in reference to Himself.


Deut. 4:2; 12:32 - the Lord God commands that we not add or take away from His word - Rev. 22:18-19 - Jesus so commands us not to add or take away from His word.

Deut. 32:39; 1 Sam. 2:6 - the Lord kills and makes alive again and raises up - John 5:21 - the Son raises and gives life.

Deut. 32:39 - neither is there any that can deliver out of God's hand - John 10:28 - nor shall any pluck out of Jesus' hand.

Deut. 32:43 - rejoice, ye heavens, with Him, and let all the angels of God worship Him - Heb. 1:6 - the "Him" is Jesus the Son.

2 Sam. 22:3 - God is the horn of salvation - Luke 1:68-69 - Jesus is the horn of salvation.

Psalm 19:7 - the law of the Lord is perfect - Gal. 6:2 - fulfill the law of Christ.

Psalm 24:10 - the Lord is the King of glory - 1 Cor. 2:8 - Jesus is the Lord of glory.

Psalm 45:7 - Therefore God, your God, has anointed you. God calls someone else God. This someone else is His eternally begotten Son - Heb. 1:9 - Therefore God, your God, has anointed you. cf. Heb. 1:8, 10.

Psalm 62:12 - the Lord God renders to each according to his work - Matt. 16:27; Rev. 22:12 - Jesus so renders to each according to his work.

Psalm 71:5 - the Lord God is our hope - 1 Tim. 1:1 - the Lord Jesus Christ who is our hope.

Psalm 89:27 – I will make him the first-born, the highest (“elyon” which refers to God) of the kings of the earth - John 18:36-27 – Jesus is this first-born king.

Psalm 97:9 - the Lord God is above all - John 3:31 - Jesus is above all.

Psalms 110:1 - the Lord (Yahweh) said to my Lord - Jesus = Yhwh - Acts 2:34-36 - God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ.

Psalm 148:1-2 - the angels worship the Lord God - Heb. 1:6 - the angels worship Jesus. Only God is worshiped.

Prov. 3:12 - who the Lord loves He corrects - Rev. 3:19 - who Jesus loves He corrects.

Isaiah 7:14 - a virgin will bear a Son named Emmanuel which means "God is with us" - Matt. 1:23 - this Son is Jesus Christ, God in the flesh.

Isaiah 9:6 - the child to be born shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 25:8 - God swallows up death in victory - 2 Tim. 1:10 - Jesus abolishes death and brings life and immortality.

Isaiah 40:8 - the Word of God shall stand forever - Matt. 24:35 - the Words of Jesus shall not pass away.

Isaiah 42:8 - God gives His glory to no other - John 17:5; Heb. 1:3 - yet Jesus has the same glory as the Father.

Isaiah 43:14 - the Lord God is redeemer - Titus 2:14 - Jesus is the redeemer.

Isaiah 44:6 - the Lord God is the first and the last - Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13 - Jesus is the first and the last.

Isaiah 45:19 - I, the Lord God, did not speak in secret - John 18:20 - Jesus said "I have said nothing secretly."

Isaiah 45:23 - to God, every knee shall bow and every tongue swear. Phil. 2:10-11 - at Jesus' name every knee should bow and tongue confess.

Isaiah 48:17 - God is the Holy One - Acts 3:14 - Jesus is the Holy One.

Isaiah 60:19 - God is everlasting light - Revelation 21:23 - Jesus the Lamb is eternal light.

Jer. 17:10 - the Lord searches the hearts and repays us according to our deeds - Rev. 2:23 - Jesus searches the hearts and repays us according to our deeds.

Ezek. 1:26-28; Daniel 7:9 - God's glorious appearance - Rev. 1:13-16 - Jesus' glorious appearance.

Ezek. 34:11-31 - God the Father is the shepherd of the flock - John 10:7-29 - Jesus is the shepherd of the flock.

Ezek. 34:16 - God seeks to save that which was lost - Luke 19:10 - Jesus seeks to save that which was lost.

Ezek. 34:17 - God judges between cattle, rams and goats - Matt. 25:32 - Jesus judges and separates the goats from the sheep.

Ezek. 43:2 - God's voice was like a noise of many waters - Rev. 1:15 - Jesus' voice was like the sound of many waters.

Dan. 2:47 - the Lord is the God of gods and the Lord of Lords - Rev. 17:14 - Jesus the Lamb is the Lord of Lords.


Jesus Christ's Witnesses Claim that Jesus is God

John 1:1 - John writes, "the Word was God." This is clear evidence of Jesus Christ's divinity. (Note: in the Jehovah's bible, the passage was changed to "Word was a god." This is not only an embarrassing attempt to deny the obvious divinity of Christ, but it also violates the first commandment and Isaiah 43:10 because it acknowledges that there is more than one God).

John 1:2-3 - He (the Word) was in the beginning with God and all things were made through Him (the Word who was God).

John 1:14 - the Word (who is God) became flesh (Jesus) and dwelled among us, full of grace and truth.

John 1:18 - the Greek word for "only-begotten" is "monogenes" which means unique, only member of a kind. It does not mean created.

John 1:51 - the angels of God - Matt. 13:41 - Son of Man's angels; 2 Thess. 1:7 - Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His angels.

John 3:5 - Jesus says without baptism one cannot enter into the Kingdom of God - Col. 1:13 - Paul says this is Jesus' Kingdom.

John 6:68-69 - Peter confesses that Jesus is the Son of God who has the words of eternal life.

Acts 2:36 - God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ - Acts 4:24 - Sovereign Lord who made heaven and earth. This means Jesus is God.

Acts 3:15 - Peter said the men of Israel "killed the Author of Life." This can only be God - Acts 14:15 - who made all things.

Acts 20:28 - to care for the Church of God which He obtained with His own blood. This means God shed His blood. When? When He died on the cross. This means Jesus is God.

Rom. 1:1 - Paul is an apostle of the Gospel of God - Rom. 15:19 - Paul preached the Gospel of Christ.

Rom. 7:22 - Paul says he delights in the law of God - Gal. 6:2 - Paul says fulfill the law of Christ.

Rom. 8:9 - Paul refers to both the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ.

Rom. 9:5 - Jesus Christ is God over all, blessed forever.

Rom. 11:36 - God for from Him through Him and to Him are all things -

Heb. 2:10 - Jesus for whom and by whom are all things.

1 Cor. 15:9 - Paul says he persecuted the Church of God - Matt. 16:18; Rom. 16:16 - it is the Church of Jesus Christ.

1 Cor. 15:28 - God may be all in all - Colossians 3:11 - Christ is all and in all.

Gal. 1:5 - God the Father to whom be the glory forever - 2 Peter 3:18 - to Jesus Christ be the glory both now and forever.

Phil. 2:6-7 - Jesus was in the form of God, but instead of asserting His equality with God, emptied Himself for us.

Col. 1:15 - Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the "firstborn" of all creation. The Greek word for "first-born" is "prototokos" which means eternal preexistence (it never means created).

Col. 1:26 - God's saints - 1 Thess. 3:13 - at the coming of Jesus Christ with all His saints.

Col. 2:9 - in Jesus Christ the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. He is the whole and entire fullness of the indivisible God in the flesh.

Titus 1:1 - Paul says he is a servant of God - Rom. 1:1 - Paul says he is a servant of Jesus Christ.

Titus 1:3-4 - God our Savior = Christ our Savior = Jesus Christ is God.

Titus 2:11 - the grace of God that has appeared to save all men - Acts 15:11 - through the grace of Jesus we have salvation.

Titus 2:13 - we await our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

Titus 3:4 - 3:6 - great God and Savior Jesus Christ = God our Savior = Jesus Christ our Savior = Jesus is God.

Heb. 1:6 - when God brings His first-born into the world, let all the angels of God worship Him. Only God is worshiped.

Heb. 1:8 - God calls the Son "God." But of the Son He says, "Thy Throne Oh God is forever and ever."

Heb. 1:9 - God calls the Son "God." "Therefore, God, Thy God has anointed Thee."

Heb. 1:10 - God calls the Son "Lord." "And thou, Lord, didst found the earth in the beginning and the heavens are your work."

Heb. 13:12 - Paul says Jesus sanctifies the people with His blood - 1 Thess. 5:23 - the God of peace sanctifies the people.

2 Peter 1:1 - to those who have obtained a faith of equal standing in the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.

1 John 5:20 - "that we may know Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life."

Jude 4 - Jude calls Jesus Christ our only Master and Lord. Our only Master and Lord is God Himself.

Rev. 2:8 - the angel of the church in Smyrna wrote, "The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life." See Isa. 44:6.
Rev. 22:6 - the Lord God sends angels - Rev. 22:16 - Jesus sends angels.

Jesus Christ Claims to be God

Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 - Jesus tells satan, "you shall not tempt the Lord your God" in reference to Himself.

Matt. 5:21-22; 27-28; 31-32; 33-34; 38-39; 43-44 - Jesus makes Himself equal to God when He declares, "You heard it said...but I say to you.."

Matt. 7:21-22; Luke 6:46 - not everyone who says to Jesus, "Lord, Lord." Jesus calls Himself Lord, which is God.

Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48 - Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins.

Matt. 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5 - Jesus says that He is "Lord of the Sabbath." He is the Lord of God's law which means He is God.

Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them.

Matt. 21:3; Luke 19:31,34 - Jesus calls himself "Lord." "The Lord has need of them."

Matt. 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 22:70 - Jesus acknowledges that He is the Son of God.

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

Mark 14:36 - Jesus calls God "Abba," Aramaic for daddy, which was an absolutely unprecedented address to God and demonstrates Jesus' unique intimacy with the Father.

Luke 8:39 - Luke reports that Jesus said "tell how much God has done for you." And the man declared how much Jesus did.

Luke 17:18 - Jesus asks why the other nine lepers did not come back to give praise to Him, God, except the Samaritan leper.

Luke 19:38,40 - Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. If these were silent, the very stones would cry out.

John 5:18 - Jesus claimed to be God. The Jews knew this because Jesus called God His Father and made Himself equal to God. This is why Jesus was crucified.

John 5:21-22 - Jesus gives life and says that all judgment has been given to Him by the Father.

John 5:23 - Jesus equates Himself with the Father, "whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him."

John 6:38 - Jesus says, "For I have come down from heaven."

John 8:12 - Jesus says "I am the light of the world." - 1 John 1:5 - God is light and in him there is no darkness at all.

John 8:19 - Jesus says, "if you knew me, you would know my Father also."

John 8:23 - Jesus says that He is not of this world. Only God is not of this world.

John 8:58 - Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I AM." Exodus 3:14 - "I AM" means "Yahweh," which means God.

John 10:18 - Jesus says He has the power to lay down His life and take it up again - Gal. 1:1 - God raised Jesus to life.

John 10:30 - Jesus says, "I and the Father are one." They are equal. The Jews even claimed Jesus made Himself equal to God. Jesus' statement in John 14:28, "the Father is greater than I," cannot contradict John 10:30 (the Word of God is never in conflict). Jesus' statement in John 14:28 simply refers to His human messianic role as servant and slave, which He, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit, undertook in the flesh.

John 10:36 - again, Jesus claims that He is "the Son of God."

John 10:38; 14:10 - "the Father is in me and I am in the Father" means the Father and Son are equal.

John 12:45 - Jesus says, "He who sees Me sees Him who sent Me." God the Father is equal to God the Son.

John 13:13 - Jesus says, "You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right for so I AM."

John 14:6 - Jesus says "I am the way, and the truth and the life." Only God is the way, the truth and the life.

John 16:15 - Jesus says, "all things that the Father has are Mine." Jesus has everything God has which makes Him God.

John 16:28 - Jesus says that "He came from the Father and has come into the world."

John 17:5,24 - Jesus' desire is for us to behold His glory which He had before the foundation of the world.

John 20:17 - Jesus distinguishes His relationship to the Father from our relationship by saying "My Father and your Father."

Rev. 1:8 - God says He is the "Alpha and the Omega." In Rev. 22:13, Jesus also says He is the "Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end." The only possible conclusion one can reach is that Jesus is equal to the Lord God.

Rev. 1:17 - Jesus says again, "I am the First and the Last." This is in reference to the God prophesied by Isaiah in Isaiah 44:6, 41:4, 48:12.

Rev. 1:18 - Jesus, the First and the Last, also says "I died, and behold, I am alive for evermore." When did God ever die? He only did in the humanity of Jesus Christ our Lord and God. Rev. 2:8 - Jesus again says, "The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life." When did God die and come to life? In our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

That was horrible. Honestly, WarriorAngel....Aren't you a moderator? Yet, you come into the JW section saying:

"(Note: in the Jehovah's bible, the passage was changed to "Word was a god." This is not only an embarrassing attempt to deny the obvious divinity of Christ, but it also violates the first commandment"

Obviously you copy and pasted this, so it's not YOUR mistake... but this is based on the assumption that "the evil scary JWs changed the bible, don't trust them!" ... when, instead.... perhaps you could consider why there's a variation in translations of John 1:1?

And:
Ezek. 43:2 - God's voice was like a noise of many waters - Rev. 1:15 - Jesus' voice was like the sound of many waters.
Isaiah 48:17 - God is the Holy One - Acts 3:14 - Jesus is the Holy One.
Isaiah 60:19 - God is everlasting light - Revelation 21:23 - Jesus the Lamb is eternal light.

Oh muh goodness! A father and Son are described similarly!? Shocker!

Prov. 3:12 - who the Lord loves He corrects - Rev. 3:19 - who Jesus loves He corrects.

They both correct people!? They must be the same being!

... How's about... instead of posting 100 verses and just relying on people saying "wow, that's a lot, her assumptions must be true" .... How about you post... like... 2 verses that actually prove a point.

1- Not relying on poor translation
2- Not relying on you making an assumption before you read the scripture for it to be taken the way you want it.

For example:

John 14:28, Jesus says "The Father is greater than I." ... why should your opinion that "they're coeternally coequal" over-ride Jesus' understanding?
1 Corinthians 8:6: "There is for us only one God, the Father." Later it states that Jesus is "lord" ... specifically not God.
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Matthew 24:36 and Mark 13:32, The Father knows the day and hour of his kingdom, and no one else does... specifically not even the Son. If Jesus is "God in human flesh" ... why does he know in "father form" but not know in "son form?" [/FONT]