Do you believe repentance is a prerequisite for salvation?

Catherineanne · Sep 20, 2009

t1wGl said:
It has been a series of ups and downs, but since last year when I began seriously studying Scripture again, I have been able for the most part, to rest in this grace consistently. I still have my off days, but I all it takes is a song about the blood of Jesus, or a Scripture about God reconciling me through Jesus on the cross and I am renewed once again.

This post is so honest (I am tempted to use the word holy as well. I think it fits) it is almost painful to read. I too have tried to be the best that I can be, before God, and I too have failed. I too have learned that it is not we who achieve perfection, but Christ's perfection that covers us like a wing, and in which we rest. If we can.

What I have found is that if we raise our eyes from our own sins, and look towards the cross instead, our sins become immaterial. Christ does not remember them, and neither should we. Not because they do not need to be dealt with - clearly they do. But because we can become so wrapped up in healing ourselves in Christ that we forget that our role is to bring salt and light to the world, even before our own healing is perfected. Paul had a thorn in the flesh, to remind him that he was human, not divine. And we each have the same. You rightly say that our perfection will not be completed in us until the day we stand before God in eternity.

The conclusion I have reached, after many, many painful years, is that my sins are not there for my destruction, but to remind me that I still have work to do, both for myself and those around me. Not to achieve my own salvation - that is assured already, long ago. But to achieve the healing of the world that God intends through my hands. Whether it is just a smile to a stranger to cheer their day or the conversion of millions through evangelism really doesn't matter. Finding the will of God and sticking to it, through the good times and the bad; that is what matters.

Remember the image of gold being refined by fire? That is Christian life. It is the life Christ himself led, even though he was already pure, and it is the life we each must lead as well.

Crankitup · Sep 20, 2009

Another explanation is found here;

Jesus was baptized because He had to fulfill the legal requirements for entering into the priesthood. He was priest after the order of Melchizedek (Psalm 110:4; Heb. 5:8-10; 6:20). Priests offered sacrifice to God on behalf of the people. Jesus became a sacrifice for our sin (1 Pet. 2:24; 2 Cor. 5:21) in His role as priest.
To be consecrated as a priest, He had to be:

Washed with water (Lev. 8:6; Exodus 29:4, Matt. 3:16).

Anointed with oil (Lev. 8:12; Exodus 29:7; Matt. 3:16).

Trish1947 · Sep 20, 2009

Good to hear from you ENOCH SON...
I know that you believe all men are saved, but all men don't know that they are saved. This would end all debates wouldn't it? I do believe the sin issue with Jesus
was ended and satisfied the day He nailed OUR SIN to His cross, for the whole world. However, many continue to let the flesh live, when it died that day. I really believe that what we do to ourselves is continually resurrect our flesh, when it was put to death due to.. in our flesh dwelleth no good thing. He didn't say if we do sin that we weren't saved. He said, that whoever sins, is a servant of it, but even that servant doesn't abide in that house forever..so there's hope for us all in Jesus. Scripture says. those that walk after the flesh will die. I believe that this is referring to an early physical death,.. there is a sin unto death, but our spirits have been made perfect in Him. When scripture says that flesh and blood can't enter, then it can't enter, and never will, because it was put to death.

rahmiyn · Sep 20, 2009

T1wGl, thank you for such an honest and moving post. It is my greatest hope that some day, we will sit with many here in the comforting bosom of our Lord for all of eternity and share in unmeasurable blessings together.

Blessings and prayers for your new job. I'm sure, wherever you are, you are bringing a bit of the church with you to others.

enoch son · Sep 20, 2009

Crankitup said:
Wasn't Jesus setting an example for His followers?

So let think about that. The sinnless Son of God would have to lie and say I need to repent as an example. So a lie is a example.
If that is true then why didn't Jesus baptize anyone? the word say's He baptize NO ONE.
Shouldn't the example show us how to do it by His action? Which could only be truth? If God had to subject Himself to man then couldn't adam have told god where to get off?

Cassidy · Sep 20, 2009

Enoch Son - Didn't Christ repent of OUR sin?

Crankitup - I'm thinking more that his purpose was not to show us an example on how we should live but to live it so in him we live his example...does that make sense?

enoch son · Sep 20, 2009

Cassidy said:
Enoch Son - Didn't Christ repent of OUR sin?

Crankitup - I'm thinking more that his purpose was not to show us an example on how we should live but to live it so in him we live his example...does that make sense?

I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! well said!!!!!!!!!!! He repent for His creation and nail us all with one act. How can anyman with his act out do the act of Jesus? For God said "THIS IS MY BELOVED SON." When in the act of Christ Jesus "All RIGHTEOUSNESS WAS TO BE FULLFILL." Do you think Jesus forgot anybody? You go to the head of the class you are a apple in the eye of the Lord. Great joy is all about you. You have made me so very happy thank you. :bow:

Crankitup · Sep 21, 2009

enoch son said:
I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! well said!!!!!!!!!!! He repent for His creation and nail us all with one act. How can anyman with his act out do the act of Jesus? For God said "THIS IS MY BELOVED SON." When in the act of Christ Jesus "All RIGHTEOUSNESS WAS TO BE FULLFILL." Do you think Jesus forgot anybody? You go to the head of the class you are a apple in the eye of the Lord. Great joy is all about you. You have made me so very happy thank you.

I want to see what, if any implications there are to what you are saying, so let me get this straight, would you believe it's not necessary for us to repent because Christ already did it for us?

Also, since you didn't respond to any of what I posted at #290 I presume you don't disagree with it.

Crankitup · Sep 21, 2009

Cassidy said:
Crankitup - I'm thinking more that his purpose was not to show us an example on how we should live but to live it so in him we live his example...does that make sense?

Makes sense.

Catherineanne · Sep 21, 2009

enoch son said:
He repent for His creation and nail us all with one act. How can anyman with his act out do the act of Jesus?

You are missing the point. When a Christian behaves in accordance with the will of God, this is not to complete our salvation, but to acknowledge it. Whatever we do is done in Christ, not in our own strength to repeat what he has done.

I think you would do well to tone down your responses to other people's posts, therefore. They do not reflect well on our faith.

JusSumguy · Sep 21, 2009

Crankitup said:
Also, since you didn't respond to any of what I posted at #290 I presume you don't disagree with it.

Quit spamming.

-

nephilimiyr · Sep 21, 2009

JusSumguy said:
Quit spamming.

-

Um, that's not spaming.

enoch son · Sep 21, 2009

Crankitup said:
I want to see what, if any implications there are to what you are saying, so let me get this straight, would you believe it's not necessary for us to repent because Christ already did it for us?

Also, since you didn't respond to any of what I posted at #290 I presume you don't disagree with it.

I don't think I have ever said not to repent. But if repenting is a work and not a gift from God then it worthless anyway. As for #290 I haven't read it so I will take a look at it. You see the theads are so full of self works to get or hold thier place in christ I can only take so much of it.

enoch son · Sep 21, 2009

Crankitup said:
Wasn't Jesus setting an example for His followers?

No not at all for Jesus to sent an example of water for His follower would mean water is a work need for salvation and that would place it with the blood. If water is so important then why did Paul write "I'm glad I did not baptize any of you?" I think there a bigger picture here then man. Sorry I miss you post.

MrBojangles · Sep 21, 2009

Unregenerates cannot repent.
If they could they would not have to be saved.

rahmiyn · Sep 21, 2009

The longer I follow this thread, the more obvious it is that there exists quite a few definitions of "repent."

We can't get around that we are called to repentance. It's in scripture. But, I think we have to understand exactly what "repent" means in a way that falls perfectly into the Good News gospel of grace.

loved33 · Sep 21, 2009

i think of the prodigal son.

when he was in the pig pen - he thinks he will go and be a servant for his father because he knows how well servants are treated in his fathers house.

THEN when he was a far way off ,his father saw him and ran to him, throwing himself on him with affection.

then came the repentence.

in Galations 5 it says that faith works by love.

to me love/Jesus known, met free of charge, accepted, causes repentence.

its as if such love flushes the person.

Im not saying it cant happen before a commitment, but , my old pastor used to say that when a person is seeking in their heart, the Holy Spirit is on them, not in them.

God in His wisdom can do what He likes in the way that is fitting to the individual.
i dont think the answer is a definitive one.

but one thing is for certain, repentence is a work of the Holy Spirit it says so in 2 cor, it cant be mustered by us.

I do beleive God is always the initiator, and man responds.

like bridegroom, bride

strong , weaker vessel

even the sexual act is representative of the type, man plants something in the woman, she receives him, willingly, having been loved.

NaLuvena · Sep 21, 2009

Catherineanne said:
I am afraid you have this one mixed up. First you say we have to get the steps right, then you say we are not the baker.

Which is it? You can't have both.

Why not? I know that logically, it cannot be, but remember we are talking about God here, the God who does the impossible. Free will and predestination springs immediately to mind as I type this...

Catherineanne said:
I don't mind anyone replying to anything. I mind being told I am wrong, but only because it is not polite. I try my best not to say the same in return, particularly when I like people, such as yourself.

That is why I tried to say you could have your version if you wanted, but you backed me into a corner so that I had to be clearer.

Sorry about that.

I never meant to back you into a corner... I for one, like to be told that I'm wrong, when I am, so that I can learn...

NaLuvena · Sep 21, 2009

Evangelica said:
Rewards are basically given as to the desires of the person to whom they are going. Not everyone chooses to be close to God. Judgment of brass are not for everyone. And they start at the throne.
Only Jesus Christ never sinned at all and yet if looked at according to traditional values mankind would condemn him as well.

True
The old husband needs to die before remarraige is accepted according to Paul in Romans

Sorry, I don't follow you....

NaLuvena · Sep 21, 2009

Catherineanne said:
Not in law.

Here is a true story. Some years ago a young boy in the UK was given up by his family for adoption, and adopted by another. They then found him too challenging, so they gave him up for adoption once more, and left the country; they went to Australia; the husband and wife and their two girls. He was then institutionalised for the rest of his life.

Fast forward 60 years, and this man dies intestate in the UK, leaving a considerable amount of money. He has blood relations, who are found, but they are NOT eligible to inherit from him. Instead his estate is shared between the two girls - now elderly - who went to Australia, who are his legal heirs, even though they barely remember him, and have had nothing whatever to do with him for more than half a century.

Absolutely true.

We can all choose to have nothing to do with our family, whether of blood, marriage or adoption. God does not make such a choice. The parent: child motif may not tell us what God will do in any given situation, but it is very useful for telling us what he will never do, in a million years. Or more, come to that. God will never adopt us and then send us back, for example.

Even in your example, the child could be removed from a family because he was adopted. That was my point, because we are adopted into God's family, we can always choose to walk away from Him.

Do you believe repentance is a prerequisite for salvation?

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