Why dose God hurt

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JacksLadder

Guest
Why dose God bring us into this world of pain? Why dose he hide himself and give us so many pitfalls to fall into hell? Why did he create millions of people only to burn most for eternity?

The only answer I can come up with is that he predestined humanity for hell. That he really dose not love us but that we are just ants waiting to get stomped on by him.

Most people according to the bible will end up in hell whats the point?:confused:
 

Julina

Veteran
Apr 14, 2008
2,415
163
36
New Joisey
Visit site
✟18,285.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
The only answer I can come up with is that he predestined humanity for hell. That he really dose not love us but that we are just ants waiting to get stomped on by him.
definitely not. God loves us. that's why he sent His son Jesus. if God really wanted to stomp on us then he wouldn't have created us in the first place.
 
Upvote 0

toolite

Well-Known Member
Jul 1, 2008
3,588
240
Orlando, Florida
✟5,058.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Why dose God bring us into this world of pain? Why dose he hide himself and give us so many pitfalls to fall into hell? Why did he create millions of people only to burn most for eternity?

The only answer I can come up with is that he predestined humanity for hell. That he really dose not love us but that we are just ants waiting to get stomped on by him.

Most people according to the bible will end up in hell whats the point?:confused:


Hello,
That's why it is so important to read the word and and ask God to help you to understand what the word means to you. The enemy is the one who adds confusion and tries to change the word but, the fact is when God said you were saved- you are. God wants all to go to heaven and doesn't want anyone left behind. Study the word- don't jump around because you'll understand better reading it through. Do your best to love everyone. Do your best to be the best you that you can be. Help when you can and when you fall short because you will ask for forgiveness and strength from God. God wants you happy not walking on egg shells (lol)
Stay Blessed!

All The Glory Belongs To God!
 
Upvote 0

icxn

Bραδύγλωσσος αἰπόλος μαθητεύων κνίζειν συκάμινα
Dec 13, 2004
3,092
885
✟210,855.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Ehh???

A certain brother, overcome by the passion of fornication, sinned every day. However, each time, with tears and prayers, he would fall before the Master and Lord and receive forgiveness from Him. And as soon as he had repented, the next day, being misled again by shameful habit, he would fall into sin.

Afterwards, having sinned, he would go to the Church, where he would prostrate himself before the honorable and revered Icon of our Lord Jesus Christ and tearfully confess to Jesus: “Lord, have mercy upon me and take away from me this fearful temptation, for it troubles me fiercely and wounds me with the bitter taste of the pleasures. O my Master, cleanse my person once more, that I may gaze upon Thine Icon and see Thy holy form and the sight of Thy face, brighter than the sun, that my heart might be sweetened and thankful.”

And though his lips had just whispered these words, no sooner would he leave the Church than he would fall once again into sin.

Despite this, however, he did not despair of his salvation, but, returning from his sinful deed, would cry out in the Church the same words to God, to the Lord, Who loves mankind, adding the following: “My Lord, I swear to Thee on my word that I shall no longer commit this sin. Only forgive me, Good and Most Merciful Lord, whatever sins I have committed from the beginning to this moment.”

No sooner would he utter these awe-inspiring words, than he would find himself the captive of this evil sin. Let no one cease to marvel at the sweet love of God towards mankind and at His boundless goodness, with which He each day tolerated the uncorrected and evil transgression and ingratitude of the brother. Indeed, God, because of the greatness of His mercy, persistently accepted the repentance of that sinful brother and his inevitable return. For this happened not for one or two or three years, but for more than ten years.

Do you see, my brother, the measureless forbearance and boundless love of the Master? How He continually endures, showing to us kindness, tolerating our terrible transgressions and sins? And what evokes astonishment and wonderment with regard to the rich mercies of God is that He did not become wrathful with the brother in question, though the brother, agreeing not to fall to sin again, continually broke his word.

At any rate, one day when all that we have described again occurred, the brother, having fallen into sin, rushed to the Church, lamenting, groaning, and crying with anguish, to invoke the mercy of God, that He might have compassion on him and take from him the sin of immorality.

No sooner had he called on God, the lover of man, than the Devil, that evil of old, destroyer of our souls, seeing that he could gain nothing, since whatever he accomplished by sin, the brother expunged by his repentance, became infuriated and appeared visibly before the brother. Facing the Icon of Christ, the Devil said to our compassionate Savior: “What will become of the two of us, Jesus Christ? Your sympathy for this sinner defeats me and takes the ground I have gained, since you keep accepting this dissolute man and prodigal who daily mocks you and scorns your authority. Indeed, why is it that you do not burn him up, but, rather, tolerate and put up with him? … It is because one day you intend to condemn all of the adulterers and the dissolute and you will destroy all sinners.

“Actually, you are not a just Judge. But by whim your power is sometimes applied leniently and overlooks things. So, while I was cast from the heavens down to the abyss for a little breach of pride, to this fellow here, even though an immoral man and a prodigal, you calmly show your sympathy, just because he throws himself down in front of your Icon.
“In what way can you be called a just Judge, then? For, as I see it, you receive individual people with great kindness, but ignore justice in general.”
The Devil said all of this, poisoned with great bitterness, whilst there poured forth from his nostrils a black flame.

Having said these things, he fell silent. A voice was heard in response, coming forth from the divine sanctuary, saying the following: “O, all-cunning and ruinous Dragon, are you yet not satisfied with your evil and destructive desire to gobble up the world? Now you have even the nerve to try to do away with and devour this man here, who has come with contrition to entreat the mercy of my compassion, too? Can you offer up enough sins that, by them, you can tilt the balance of justice against the precious blood which I shed on the Cross for this man? Behold my murder and death, which I endured for the forgiveness of his sins.

“You, when he turns again to sin, do not turn him away, but receive him with joy, neither chastising him nor preventing him from committing sin, out of the hope that you might win him over; but I, who am merciful and love mankind, who counselled my laudable Apostle, Peter, to forgive sins seven times seventy (St. Matthew 18:22), should I not show him mercy and compassion? Indeed, simply because he flees to me, I will not turn him away until I have won him over. Furthermore, I was crucified for sinners and for their salvation; my immaculate hands were nailed to the Cross, that those who so wish might take refuge in me and be saved. For this reason, then, I neither turn away nor reject anyone, even if he should fall many times a day and many times return to me; such a person will not leave my Temple saddened, for I came not to call the righteous, but to call sinners to repent.”

During the time that this voice was heard, the Devil was fixed in his place, trembling and unable to run away. The voice then again began to say: “We have heard from all that you say, O Seducer, that I am not just; to the contrary, I am just beyond all. In whatever moral state I find a person, in that state I judge him. Look at this man who a few moments ago repented, having returned from sin and having fallen at my feet with a sincere resolution to abandon sin, and thereby having conquered you.

"Therefore, I will accept him immediately and save his soul, since he did not lose hope in his hard toil for salvation.

Look how much he merits by his repentance before me, for which he is honored. As for you, let your hate be shred to pieces and you disgraced.”

While this was being said, the repentant brother had thrown himself before the Icon of the Savior. With his face to the ground and lamenting, he surrendered his spirit to the Lord. At the same time that the repentant brother departed to the Lord, a great tempest fell upon Satan, like a fire from Heaven, and devoured him. From this incident, my brothers, let us learn of the limitless compassion of God and of His love of man - a good Master we have - , that we might never again be disheartened by our sins, but rather look after our salvation with zeal. (Source)

Forgive me for the longish post. :sorry:
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gwendolyn
Upvote 0

Grand_Duchess-Elizaveta

Pie-baking apron-clad hausfrau :D
Jun 22, 2004
3,366
173
50
Canada
✟4,397.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Jacksladder: I'm far from being a theologian, but I see that you are hurting and seeking answers. Your perception of God has been seriously tainted by bad theology (Calvinism).

[q]Why dose God bring us into this world of pain?[/q]
This is one that no one can answer, really. Or perhaps a deeply pious monk from Mount Athos could give a good explanation, but I cannot.

[q]Why dose he hide himself and give us so many pitfalls to fall into hell?[/q]
He doesn't hide himself from those who truly seek Him. We are the ones who try to hide from God. It started with Adam and Eve hiding in the garden of Eden after they had disobeyed God, and it continues to this day. The only pitfalls we have are those we have chosen to walk into. Again, as someone has already mentioned, this is due to our own sin.

[q]Why did he create millions of people only to burn most for eternity?[q]
This is the most blatantly Calvinist. God does NOT create ANYONE for the purpose of burning in hell. I don't feel qualified, nor do I have the time to explain why God chose to create humanity, but He is not a sadistic dictator who enjoys destroying the people He has created. People go to hell because they choose to. They choose to serve themselves or some other god instead of the God who made them. They choose the darkness because it feels safer than the light.

This is theological discussion which has been shrunken down, wrapped up, and shoved into a nutshell. My apologies! I hope I've helped, or at least not thrown you deeper into confusion.

Best wishes from a very busy, very tired mom of two children under age 2.;)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
N

nhisname

Guest
Why dose God bring us into this world of pain? Why dose he hide himself and give us so many pitfalls to fall into hell? Why did he create millions of people only to burn most for eternity?

The only answer I can come up with is that he predestined humanity for hell. That he really dose not love us but that we are just ants waiting to get stomped on by him.

Most people according to the bible will end up in hell whats the point?:confused:
If God didn't love his creation he would have destroyed all of us by now, but he is very gracious and patient waiting for all the world to be told about Jesus, that way there will be no excuses. We have freewill either to accept his son or not. You cannot blame God, he has given us his word to read and study and the Holy Spirit for comfort. Some people are just sinful people and will not turn from it no matter what. God knows this and he uses it for his purpose. We cannot think like God does but he has given us his word and I'm satisfied and comforted with that.
 
Upvote 0

127.0.0.1

They rally 'round the family
Feb 23, 2008
3,387
222
✟12,217.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I was once told that on the last day, our conscience will be shaking, shuddering, trying to do the right thing. God simply smiles and says that He never invalidates our free will and that He chooses to respect our decisions whatever they may be.

Christ died on the cross, He destroyed Hades. Christ didn't destroy Hades only to let the Devil build it back up again! Hell is a state of being. We put ourselves there.

People do not go to Hell for God's lack of love and forgiveness. People go to Hell, for their lack of love for God.
 
Upvote 0

icxn

Bραδύγλωσσος αἰπόλος μαθητεύων κνίζειν συκάμινα
Dec 13, 2004
3,092
885
✟210,855.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Honestly it makes me feel sorry for Lucifer the eternal pain he incured just for one infraction. It makes me want to punch Jesus and when he turns the other cheak and punch him again(He can take the hit he was a rough carpenter after all.) I wish God sent me a angel to beat up like he did Jacob, I could use the exercise.

He is ready to take the strike...

Quote from the letters of St. Dionysios the Areopagite:
The vision of Carpus

When I was once in Crete, the holy Carpus (see 2 Tim. 4.13) entertained me -- a man, of all others, most fitted, on account of great purity of mind, for Divine Vision. Now, he never undertook the holy celebrations of the Mysteries, unless a propitious vision were first manifested to him during his preparatory devout prayers. He said then, when some one of the unbelievers had at one time grieved him (and his grief was, that he had led astray to ungodliness a certain member of the Church, whilst the days of rejoicing were still being celebrated for him); that he ought compassionately to have prayed on behalf of both, and taking God, the Saviour, as his fellow-helper, to convert the one, and to overcome the other by goodness (Rom. 11.21), and not to have ceased warning them so long as he lived until this day; and thus to lead them to the knowledge of God, so that the things disputed by them might be clearly determined, and those, who were irrationally bold, might be compelled to be wiser by a judgment according to law.

Now, as he had never before experienced this, I do not know how he then went to bed with such a surfeit of ill-will and bitterness. In this evil condition he went to sleep, for it was evening, and at midnight (for he was accustomed at that appointed hour to rise, of his own accord, for the Divine melodies) he arose, not having enjoyed, undisturbed, his slumbers, which were many and continually broken; and, when he stood collected for the, Divine Converse, he was guiltily vexed and displeased, saying, that it was not just that godless men, who pervert the straight ways of the Lord, should live. And, whilst saying this, he besought Almighty God, by some stroke of lightning, suddenly, without mercy, to cut short the lives of them both.

But, whilst saying this, he declared, that he seemed to see suddenly the house in which he stood, first torn asunder, and from the roof divided into two in the midst, and a sort of gleaming fire before his eyes (for the place seemed now under the open sky) borne down from the heavenly region close to him; and, the heaven itself giving way, and upon the back of the heaven, Jesus, with innumerable angels, in the form of men, standing around Him. This indeed, he saw, above, and himself marvelled; but below, when Carpus had bent down, he affirmed that he saw the very foundation ripped in two, to a sort of yawning and dark chasm, and those very men, upon whom he had invoked a curse, standing before his eyes, within the mouth of the chasm, trembling, pitiful, only just not yet carried down by the mere slipping of their feet; and from below the chasm, serpents, creeping up and gliding from underneath, around their feet, now contriving to drag them away, and weighing them down, and lifting them up, and again inflaming or irritating with their teeth or their tails, and all the time endeavouring to pull them down into the yawning gulf; and that certain men also were in the midst, co-operating with the serpents against these men, at once tearing and pushing and beating them down. And they seemed to be on the point of falling, partly against their will, partly by their will; almost overcome by the calamity, and at the same time resigned.

And Carpus said, that he himself was glad, whilst looking below, and that he was forgetful of the things above; further, that he was vexed and made light of it, because they had not already fallen, and that he often attempted to accomplish the fact, and that, when he did not succeed, he was both irritated and cursed.

And, when with difficulty he raised himself, he saw the heaven again, as he saw it before, and Jesus, moved with pity at what was taking place, standing up from His super-celestial throne, and descending to them, and stretching a helping hand, and the angels, co-operating with Him, taking hold of the two men, one from one place and another from, another, and the Lord Jesus said to Carpus, whilst His hand was yet extended, 'Strike against Me in future, for I am ready, even again, to suffer for the salvation of men; and this is pleasing to Me, provided that other men do not commit sin. But see, whether it is well for thee to exchange the dwelling in the chasm, and with serpents, for that with God, and the good and philanthropic angels.'

These are the things which I heard myself, and believe to be true. (Source)

Christ suffered enough even to save the fallen angels if only they repented. The problem is that they do not want to!!!
 
Upvote 0

127.0.0.1

They rally 'round the family
Feb 23, 2008
3,387
222
✟12,217.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
Honestly it makes me feel sorry for Lucifer the eternal pain he incured just for one infraction. It makes me want to punch Jesus and when he turns the other cheak and punch him again(He can take the hit he was a rough carpenter after all.) I wish God sent me a angel to beat up like he did Jacob, I could use the exercise.

Oh...you've a rather twisted view of the Evil One indeed!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,562
20,082
41
Earth
✟1,466,914.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
yeah when it comes to sinners in hell, they are in hell because they refuse to repent. it's not like hell is some pit of molten lava that we are cast in to fry for all eternity. hell is the unrepentant sinner in the presence of the Holy God. the fire of hell is the fire of God's Presence, that warms and delights the righteous.

now, for those that are in hell, if they would just ask for forgiveness, God would have mercy on them. their problem is that they refuse to ask God for His mercy. their hearts are so hardened against God that they would rather have their sin than God's love, and that is what causes the torment. it is the unrepentant sinner that wants nothing to do with God, not the other way around, that makes hell.

a great analogy I heard from Fr Thomas Hopko was think of a little kid who wants some ice cream. he goes up to Mom and asks for the ice cream. she tells him no, that he must wait til after dinner first. dinner comes and goes, and mom breaks out the ice cream and what does the kid do? he refuses the ice cream because he didn't get it when he wanted it. and he sits there and watches his family enjoy it, and his parents keep offering, and he still refuses. he tortures himself and it would all end and he could enjoy the ice cream if only he would accept the offering, but his heart is so hard he will not accept it. and the more the family enjoys it and offers it to him, the worse he becomes. that's hell.

hope this helps
 
Upvote 0

127.0.0.1

They rally 'round the family
Feb 23, 2008
3,387
222
✟12,217.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
now, for those that are in hell, if they would just ask for forgiveness, God would have mercy on them. their problem is that they refuse to ask God for His mercy. their hearts are so hardened against God that they would rather have their sin than God's love, and that is what causes the torment. it is the unrepentant sinner that wants nothing to do with God, not the other way around, that makes hell.


Well, I've never considered it from that angle. Although, when described like that, you'd think that at least someone would've repented if they could've. My understanding of life after death is that, we cannot change the fundamental state we are in, we just become more and more in that state. For example, Heaven continues to get better exponentially while Hell just gets exponentially worse & worse.

PS
Careful about falling into Oregin's heresy, that all will eventually be saved. We don't know who all will and who all won't be saved for sure.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ArmyMatt

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jan 26, 2007
41,562
20,082
41
Earth
✟1,466,914.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Well, I've never considered it from that angle. Although, when described like that, you'd think that at least someone would've repented if they could've.

oh no I think you are right, one of the things that I guess I should have made more clear is that those in hell are the ones who will never repent, ever. the more God offers His goodness and mercy, the more they reject it, and therefore the more their sins exposed in God's holy presence and the more they are tormented by it.

St Fotini the Hermitess of the Jordan says when you reject the God who is life, love, peace, blessedness, light, rest, etc, what you are left with is death, hate, chaos, judgment, darkness, fatigue, etc.

I hope this makes it more clear
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.