Panel blames White House, not soldiers, for abuse

BlessEwe · Dec 11, 2008

The physical and mental abuse of detainees in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, was the direct result of Bush administration detention policies and should not be dismissed as the work of bad guards or interrogators, according to a bipartisan Senate report released Thursday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081211/ap_on_go_co/detainee_abuse

Notice it does say bipartisan Senate

BlessEwe · Dec 11, 2008

Quote: Administration officials publicly blamed the abuses on low-level soldiers_ the work "of a few bad apples."

This makes me very angry and I hope the real bad apples are brought to justice.

reverend C · Dec 11, 2008

me too, but don't hold your breath. rumsfeld is gone, and bush and cheney are teflon.

Thirst_For_Knowledge · Dec 11, 2008

reverend C said:
me too, but don't hold your breath. rumsfeld is gone, and bush and cheney are teflon.

They really aren't teflon. They will go down in history as one of the 5 worst administrations, which is really the only justice that can be brought to them. This isn't a criminal matter that we can/should go at them with. Their justice is served.

Ringo84 · Dec 11, 2008

That's what we've been saying all along.
Ringo

Billnew · Dec 12, 2008

and interrogation rule changes with the abuse photographed at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq four years ago. Much of the report remains classified. Unclassified portions of the report were released by the committee Thursday.

Hey, if the peons in jail were only following orders from CiC and down, then they should be released, thier records cleared and recieve money for wrongful imprisionment, paid by the future criminals, Bush admin.

That was what the military lawyers were trying to prove, that orders came from high, and the low levels were just doing as they were told.

DaisyDay · Dec 13, 2008

Billnew said:
Hey, if the peons in jail were only following orders from CiC and down, then they should be released, thier records cleared and recieve money for wrongful imprisionment, paid by the future criminals, Bush admin.

That was what the military lawyers were trying to prove, that orders came from high, and the low levels were just doing as they were told.

That was the Nuremburg excuse - it is not justification for illegal acts, although it does mitigate the severity somewhat.

War crimes are illegal. Violating international treaties (that we agreed to) is illegal.

The Obama administration is unlikely to bother investigating any of this because of the expense and the lack of political benefit. Ditto Congress.

Chipahualca · Dec 13, 2008

Thirst_For_Knowledge said:
They really aren't teflon. They will go down in history as one of the 5 worst administrations, which is really the only justice that can be brought to them. This isn't a criminal matter that we can/should go at them with. Their justice is served.

So your sense of "justice" for killing a million innocents, most of them children, is having a bad reputation ? interesting.

Thirst_For_Knowledge · Dec 14, 2008

Chipahualca said:
So your sense of "justice" for killing a million innocents, most of them children, is having a bad reputation ? interesting.

Ew. No, that's what you just read, seriously? Wow, are you, like, a bot?

invisible trousers · Dec 15, 2008

Thirst_For_Knowledge said:
They really aren't teflon. They will go down in history as one of the 5 worst administrations, which is really the only justice that can be brought to them. This isn't a criminal matter that we can/should go at them with. Their justice is served.

There is no statute of limitations for war crimes

Sphere · Dec 15, 2008

Chipahualca said:
So your sense of "justice" for killing a million innocents, most of them children, is having a bad reputation ? interesting.

Can we see a source proving the "killing a million innocents, most of them children"?

Or can we chalk that up as another one of your made-up-on-the-spot figures?

revanneosl · Dec 15, 2008

Phone me when Donald Rumsfeld, John Ashcroft and Alberto Gonzalez are bound over for trial at the Hague, won't you? That I'm going to want to watch.

Billnew · Dec 16, 2008

aisy_Day said:
That was the Nuremburg excuse - it is not justification for illegal acts, although it does mitigate the severity somewhat.

War crimes are illegal. Violating international treaties (that we agreed to) is illegal.

The Obama administration is unlikely to bother investigating any of this because of the expense and the lack of political benefit. Ditto Congress.

BUt during the trial, thats what the defense was trying to say. That they were following orders. That low ranking personel with little actual military
experience, were placed in a situation, they had no little training for. They should still be punished, but the sentences should be alot less for the lower ranking, and higher for the higher ranking.

Because any low ranking person could have been put in that position, and only somoene that knows how to work the system properly could have done what was legal. And would the IG or other complaint chains have
done anything different? Being it seems to go all the way up the chain of command?

Doctrine1st · Dec 17, 2008

I can only surmize like Scooter Libby the Privates who served prison terms for carrying out the Bush admin policy of torture are now assured full presidential pardons.

Kalevalatar · Dec 18, 2008

Billnew said:
BUt during the trial, thats what the defense was trying to say. That they were following orders. That low ranking personel with little actual military
experience, were placed in a situation, they had no little training for. They should still be punished, but the sentences should be alot less for the lower ranking, and higher for the higher ranking.

Because any low ranking person could have been put in that position, and only somoene that knows how to work the system properly could have done what was legal. And would the IG or other complaint chains have
done anything different? Being it seems to go all the way up the chain of command?

I agree with you in principle re: sentences for low/high ranks, but as to the last paragraph: Oh please. The US soldiers, among other things, gang raped underaged girls -- who were not even detainees (whatever that stands for the United States of America) but children and family members of the detainees -- and sodomized male detainees with chemical lights and broom sticks.

ANY decent person would know such acts are wrong and evil pure and simple, with or without a master's degree in law and no matter what a piece of paper with the almighty SECDEF's signature on it says.

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Panel blames White House, not soldiers, for abuse

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