Love Honor and OBEY? Hmmm....

I'm more of a love, honor and seriously take his advice under consideration kinda gal.

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ditto
Just yesterday I flat-out told off someone who was manipulating things "for my own good". In a much more verbose paragraph I told him to stick it, and that I was an adult who can make her own decisions

plum said:

ditto
Just yesterday I flat-out told off someone who was manipulating things "for my own good". In a much more verbose paragraph I told him to stick it, and that I was an adult who can make her own decisions

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I've missed you!

Girl - your all up in here with the controversial topics. I like what Thomas had to say - and how Tamara quoted it, as well.

little_tigress said:

i'm middle of the road, i do believe that when i get married that my husband will be the spiritual head of the household - he will be the one that will be held accountable for ensuring that we will be spiritually fed and nourished. but does that mean he will get to walk all over me as if i were some spineless doormat who was to bed to his every whim? absolutely not. thats, IMHO a sign that there's an unhealthy balance in the relationship.

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I agree.

starbead said:

Women have a tendency to be manipulative and demanding (a result of the fall, I think), and we need to overcome that and be obedient. Husbands are commanded to love their wives as Christ loved the church, to the point of giving his own life. Her needs should come before his own.
This type of relationship requires selflessness on both sides so one doesn't take advantage of the other.

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I know that some of the other gals have disagreed already, but I've known lots of women that this is true about. Then they wonder why they can't find men who "understand" them.

And there's lots of MEN who are that way soccerdad and starbead. My exh was one of them-he manipulated-demanded and NAGGED like you wouldn't believe...harp, nag, criticize, all day long. And no he's not the only man like that either-I really believe that's a very unfair lumping ---it's a character issue not a gender issue IMO.

overit said:

And there's lots of MEN who are that way soccerdad and starbead. My exh was one of them-he manipulated-demanded and NAGGED like you wouldn't believe...harp, nag, criticize, all day long. And no he's not the only man like that either-I really believe that's a very unfair lumping ---it's a character issue not a gender issue IMO.

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Nope, it's a gender issue. Women are naggers. It's been scientifically proven. Of coure, I don't have a source.......BUT THAT'S BESIDES THE POINT!!!!

WileyCoyote said:

Nope, it's a gender issue. Women are naggers. It's been scientifically proven. Of coure, I don't have a source.......BUT THAT'S BESIDES THE POINT!!!!

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Giving a smiley doesnt make it ok to generalize or make up stuff

overit said:

Giving a smiley doesnt make it ok to generalize or make up stuff

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I gave a smilie because I was JOKING. I thought you would have figured that out when I told you I didn't have a source to back up what I said.

OK, I won't make up anything anymore. STOP NAGGING ME.

Nah wiley-I knew you were kidding-my own fault-but honestly everytime a thread like this comes up it ends up w/how inferior or faulty women are--EVERY time. So I guess I'm tired of seeing them go down this road.

Stop reading them?

.tink. said:

Stop reading them?

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Ummm...don't tell me what to do?

I'd like to see this "practice" stopped so i'll speak my mind on it.

Hey y'all - can we please stay on topic? The OP asks how we feel about the "obey" part of the traditional wedding vows.

tartanarmy said:

I'm more of a love, honor and seriously take his advice under consideration kinda gal. Don't get me wrong there are times when he wil be the one to make the final executive decision, but I will be on board with it probably because I'm not sure what to do. Point is it will be MY choice. He is head of the household in title. We will be equals and work as a team.

I am an independent woman and I think and decide for myself. I am not going to just go along with what someone tells me because they are male. That said I also am not arrogant enough to discount valid points and good advice. If my husband knows more than me in a certain area and takes the lead thats fine.

Now I'm going to get biblical quotes etc etc but womens' rights and independence have come a long way since biblical times. We used to be considerd property for pete sake.

This is all just my humble opinion. I would like to know yours.

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p.s. Please remember that you can ignore a post/comment that you don't agree with, rather than further derail a thread.

overit said:

Nah wiley-I knew you were kidding-my own fault-but honestly everytime a thread like this comes up it ends up w/how inferior or faulty women are--EVERY time. So I guess I'm tired of seeing them go down this road.

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I feel you. But for the record, The word OBEY has been manipulated by many so called Christians the world over. It has been used to cause little kids to submit to their pedophile parents as well as keep women in shackles. I don't think this word 'obey' means a woman has to do EVERYTHING her husband tells her. Remember, the husband has to be submitted to the Lord before he can even be worthy of having a wife submit to him. If a man is being abusive or tells her to do things that go contrary to God's Word, the woman MUST submit to GOD before she submits to him. Husbands are commanded to love their wives and if they really do, they won't act like evil dictators. How dare that jerk tell a woman she must submit and accuse her of disobeying God's Word when he is disobeying God's Word himself by acting like a manipulative fill in the blank. What a lot of men fail to realize is they have a Father in heaven THEY must submit to and He says to cherish your wife. Should a woman submit to abuse? Should she submit to a tyrannical dictator? I answer that with a resounding NO.

WileyCoyote said:

I feel you. But for the record, The word OBEY has been manipulated by many so called Christians the world over. It has been used to cause little kids to submit to their pedophile parents as well as keep women in shackles. I don't think this word 'obey' means a woman has to do EVERYTHING her husband tells her. Remember, the husband has to be submitted to the Lord before he can even be worthy of having a wife submit to him. If a man is being abusive or tells her to do things that go contrary to God's Word, the woman MUST submit to GOD before she submits to him. Husbands are commanded to love their wives and if they really do, they won't act like evil dictators. How dare that jerk tell a woman she must submit and accuse her of disobeying God's Word when he is disobeying God's Word himself by acting like a manipulative fill in the blank. What a lot of men fail to realize is they have a Father in heaven THEY must submit to and He says to cherish your wife. Should a woman submit to abuse? Should she submit to a tyrannical dictator? I answer that with a resounding NO.

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Great post!

I didn't realize that having external organs automatically lead to moral and spiritual superiority and fortitude.

tartanarmy said:

Thanks! Thats what I was TRYING to say but couldnt quite get out properly. Just to be clear if there is a wedding I do not want "obey" in the vows. "Love honor and cherish" is cool

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i honestly dunno what vows i'll want to take on my wedding when and if that day comes. I know how easily the word can be misconstrued to mean something its not and how easy it would be if i married the sorta guy who thought he could use that to make me do whatever he wanted despite my own thoughts or feelings.

But at the same time, theologically, i have no problem with the word "obey" being in there because i know what i believe it to mean and if my future hubby and i are on the same page as to what that means there really shouldn't be any problem.

overit said:

And there's lots of MEN who are that way soccerdad and starbead. My exh was one of them-he manipulated-demanded and NAGGED like you wouldn't believe...harp, nag, criticize, all day long. And no he's not the only man like that either-I really believe that's a very unfair lumping ---it's a character issue not a gender issue IMO.

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I agree with both statements. And they are choosing not to live according to God's will and purpose.

The bible has more to say about how men should act and treat there wives then it does about how women are to act. There's a good reason for that, but there are men out there who try to act in a Godly fashion, and not just try and berate their wives with "Submit!"

I'm sorry your ex was like that, but so was mine, so I can sympathize with you. It doesn't give me the right to lump all women into one category just because I'm known women who were like this. I've also known several women who because they acted according to biblical standard, regardless of how their husband acted, God honored them. (I'm not implying anything either, I don't know anyone here well enough to do that).

Um...sorry. I explained better the first time I tried to post, but, like I said, my stupid browser crashed on me and I lost it all. I didn't mean to offend anyone...

tartanarmy said:

Women have evolved beyond being passive and submissive.
Also as far as "a result of the fall" notice Adam took the apple. No one forced him. Asking appropriate questions like where she got it would have been a sign of a good leader.

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Women haven't changed, society and culture have. Women have a hypnotic power over men. You can't deny it. We call those men 'whipped'. How else can a girl get her boy to give up a chunk of his income so she can wear a shiny rock? (Um...don't take that the wrong way) Some women use this to their advantage to get what they want, others have more respect. But in some cultures, the only way for men to control that is to impose strict rules on them; no talking in public, keep face covered, etc. Eventually, women were considered to be property, like animals or land. So it's not the women that have changed, it's the country and time we live in (yay us!)

Eve told Adam to eat the fruit, probably batted her eyelashes at him or something. He didn't refuse. His desire to please her was greater than his desire to please God. Both were responsible in their own way.

Thomas1984 said:

Jesus put His family, and God, before Himself, and for that we must love, honour, and obey Him. If a married couple want to become united, or at least closer, isn't it a good idea to follow that example?

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Yep. Pretty much.

Fremdin said:

I didn't realize that having external organs automatically lead to moral and spiritual superiority and fortitude.

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It doesn't. Where did you get that from? I can understand how women who have been abused, might see submission as oppressive, but that's not what God intends for anyone, male or female.

starbead said:

Yep. Pretty much.

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Well, at least someone else thinks I'm on the right track.

Inkabink said:

Bottom line: be worthy of my devotion, and I'll follow you.

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That's a big part of it. If marriage is comparable to Christ's relationship with the Church, then husbands are called to be selfless with regard to how they treat their wives.