Love Honor and OBEY? Hmmm....

mina · Dec 3, 2008

I like teamwork; especially if it's something that will affect us both. And at the same times i like a man that leads. And i think I can make both of those ideas work; and i think there are men out there that can do both and not be an overbearing abusive gorilla.

tartanarmy · Dec 3, 2008

mina said:
i think there are men out there that can do both and not be an overbearing abusive gorilla.

QFT

starbead · Dec 3, 2008

Ahh! I had a nice, long reply to this thread, but my browser froze and ate it! Grr.

To summarize it: Ephesians 5 says that a wife should submit to her husband as the church submits to Christ. Women have a tendency to be manipulative and demanding (a result of the fall, I think), and we need to overcome that and be obedient. Husbands are commanded to love their wives as Christ loved the church, to the point of giving his own life. Her needs should come before his own.
This type of relationship requires selflessness on both sides so one doesn't take advantage of the other.

Wren · Dec 3, 2008

tartanarmy said:
I'm more of a love, honor and seriously take his advice under consideration kinda gal. Don't get me wrong there are times when he will be the one to make the final executive decision, but I will be on board with it probably because I'm not sure what to do. Point is it will be MY choice. He is head of the household in title. We will be equals and work as a team.

I am an independent woman and I think and decide for myself. I am not going to just go along with what someone tells me because they are male. That said I also am not arrogant enough to discount valid points and good advice. If my husband knows more than me in a certain area and takes the lead thats fine.

Now I'm going to get biblical quotes etc etc but womens' rights and independence have come a long way since biblical times. We used to be considered property for pete sake.

I feel the same way.

starbead said:
Women have a tendency to be manipulative and demanding (a result of the fall, I think), and we need to overcome that and be obedient.

I strongly disagree that women have a tendency to be manipulative and demanding. Maybe some women are manipulative and demanding, but some men are also manipulative and demanding. I despise negative generalizations against men or women.

tartanarmy · Dec 3, 2008

Historia said:
I feel the same way.

I strongly disagree that women have a tendency to be manipulative and demanding. Maybe some women are manipulative and demanding, but some men are also manipulative and demanding. I despise negative generalizations against men or women.

Agreed and as I originally said in this area I do not rely on biblical quotes. in history women have been oppressed . We have been considered property, not allowed to vote, etc etc. Women have evolved beyond being passive and submissive.
Also as far as "a result of the fall" notice Adam took the apple. No one forced him. Asking appropriate questions like where she got it would have been a sign of a good leader.

overit · Dec 3, 2008

Amen Historia...no I don't think obey should be part of the vows either-I'm completely an egalitarian relationship proponent. Follow eachothers strengths. Divvy up obligations according to our strengths-decisions would be made together. I"m not plannign on marrying anyway but this is the type of relationship I would be in. The touted "head of household" and "spiritual leader" aren't even found in Scripture....here's a link that helps summarize my views

http://godswordtowomen.org/scripture_study_articles.htm

ImperialPhantom · Dec 3, 2008

starbead said:
Women have a tendency to be manipulative and demanding (a result of the fall, I think), and we need to overcome that and be obedient.

Hahahahaha, put on your flakjacket, it's about to get ugly all up in here!

*ducks for cover to watch the ensuing fireworks*

tartanarmy · Dec 3, 2008

ImperialPhantom said:
Hahahahaha, put on your flakjacket, it's about to get ugly all up in here!

*ducks for cover to watch the ensuing fireworks*

Inkachu · Dec 3, 2008

Bottom line: be worthy of my devotion, and I'll follow you.

deliciousBass · Dec 3, 2008

It's funny how we evolve through out the course of our lives. As a boy I was all "heck yeah woman, you best be listenin' to me fool."

Then I was:

"heck yeah woman, we be equals yo."

Now I am:

"Dude, just do what works for YOU."

Because what works for one couple might not work for another.

welshman · Dec 3, 2008

I'm not even going to reply to that!! hehehe...

traingosorry said:
What? Him obey ME? I see nothing wrong with that.

traingosorry · Dec 3, 2008

welshman said:
I'm not even going to reply to that!! hehehe...

Well, what can I say? There is no I in Team.

radhead · Dec 3, 2008

When I get married I'm going to have the preacher emphasize that part:
"To love, honor...AND OBEY!"

tartanarmy · Dec 3, 2008

Really not a big fan of the phrase "follow". I'm a woman not a puppy. But that's just a weird quirk of mine. Lol

Thomas1984 · Dec 3, 2008

traingosorry said:
Well, what can I say? There is no I in Team.

There is in divorce! Behave yourself, Missus.

(TOTALLY JOKING, btw)

Now that I've got that out of my system!

sorry

Wives are called to follow, husbands are told to lead, but at it this way:

Jesus gave us the perfect example of how humans would be, without sin. Husbands are told to love their wives as Christ loved the church (that's us, right? :sorry:

) So really, if you're going to have a team, you need a leader. It doesn't mean military style discipline and hierarchy, it just means someone who can love can love his wife (and children) as well as challenging them in such a way that helps them to grow into better, more rounded people, who are aware of what Jesus did for us, and why we can be happy to serve Him.

It doesn't mean that the wife's (or child's) opinion is irrelevent, far from it; as men/husbands/ leaders, we have to be aware of everyone's needs and wants, and serve them according to God's will. It doesn't mean giving them everything they want, just taking responsibility, along with sharing some little luxury blessings now and then.

Rather than complain about what perceived power you don't have, why not look at what the leader can do for you, out of love? I know there will be some crossover in certain situations, if either the husband or wife is ill, or even absent for some reason, but I don't how anyone can justify saying no to God's plan (and I include myself in that statement, ftr).

Jesus put His family, and God, before Himself, and for that we must love, honour, and obey Him. If a married couple want to become united, or at least closer, isn't it a good idea to follow that example?

Tamara224 · Dec 3, 2008

I despise power struggles in relationships. The two are mutually exclusive. A relationship obsessed with "who is in charge" is no relationship at all.

Also, I'm not looking for a partnership really because that concept does not encompass all that marriage is.

When two people get married they become ONE. When we speak of having a leader or a "head" we forget that two have become one flesh.

Can I be my own leader? Can I be my own head?

Another poster wrote about this really well here, and I'll quote a portion of his post:

Man was not meant to be alone.

Click to expand...

Mark 10:7-8
"A man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become ONE flesh."

This ONENESS comes when two individuals are united into this special relationship called marriage. It does not come by love alone. It only occurs and continues as the two totally give themselves to and for each other.

Any straying from that ONENESS is destructive to the marriage. Some attempt marriage and want to have separate friends, separate interests, and separate religious faiths. These things make the marriage a TWO - who occasionally try to have a ONENESS.

The vows in marriage are meant to show the closeness and oneness of the union. The two are to share each others' total love, health, wealth, circumstances, and to give themselves totally to each other. This is a submissiveness to the other partner that is only possible in a marriage.

When we enter marriage, we are to vow to work together as a unit, and not individually. The age long argument of "Who's the boss?" illustrates the breakdown of that concept. For the idea in that question is that there are TWO, and that ONE should be the BOSS.

However, if there is only ONE,
how can there be a BOSS?

It is like the two hands of our body, each hand is a separate entity, in one way; and yet - they are both part of the same body. There is no argument on which hand is the boss.

The boss is the head of the body.

In the same way, when two people join in marriage,
they are part of the ONE body, and Christ is the head of the family, the two are like the two hands which join together in the work for the Lord, following His instructions.

The two hands being both part of the same body will work together, aid each other, care for the hurts inflicted on either, and each follow the instructions of the head of the body.

One hand is usually dominant,
and in most cases, a person is right-handed.
The right hand, being then the most agile and strong, is more likely to lift the load, carry the burdens, and do the more difficult tasks. Since I am right-handed, I pitched the baseball with my right hand, and the left hand caught the ball when someone threw it back. This teamwork was like the two who become part of one body, and work together then as one. The one hand may be more agile, and the other may have another role in which it can play the key role, but they are two who work together as one.

The two partners in a marriage have the husband who is the "head", but this is not a role of despotic leadership, but of dominant burden bearing.

The husband bears the heavier load in responsibility.

The beautiful institution of marriage has been torn apart by the argument of "Who's the boss?"

True marriage as instituted by God does not need a DESPOT.

When a devoted couple has become
ONE in their interests,
ONE in their mutual caring,
and ONE in their desire
to fulfill the other's needs
-there is no need for a BOSS.

Thomas1984 · Dec 3, 2008

Yeah, that's better than what I said.

Tink · Dec 3, 2008

little_tigress said:
i'm middle of the road, i do believe that when i get married that my husband will be the spiritual head of the household - he will be the one that will be held accountable for ensuring that we will be spiritually fed and nourished. but does that mean he will get to walk all over me as if i were some spineless doormat who was to bed to his every whim? absolutely not. thats, IMHO a sign that there's an unhealthy balance in the relationship.

This.

tartanarmy · Dec 3, 2008

If we are one and we work as a team then I see no reason for the word "obey" in the vows unless BOTH are willing to promise it.

Tink · Dec 3, 2008

tartanarmy said:
...unless BOTH are willing to promise it.

Well, you need to work that out with Spicy.

Or whomever. :sorry:

Love Honor and OBEY? Hmmm....

Brown Eyed girl

I WILL NOT HATE.

Junior Member

Well-Known Member

I WILL NOT HATE.

Veteran

ImperialPhantom

Guest

I WILL NOT HATE.

Bursting with fruit flavor!

Contributor

Regular Member

I'm what Willis was talkin' bout.

Contributor

I WILL NOT HATE.

*Expect the Unexpected*

Well-Known Member

*Expect the Unexpected*

our God is faithful. ♥

I WILL NOT HATE.

our God is faithful. ♥

Similar threads

Expect the Unexpected

Expect the Unexpected