macintosh vs. microsoft ?

macintosh or microsoft?

  • mac, all the way

  • windows! what else?

  • um, what are we talking about ?


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filosofer

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At first glance, that is usually the response. That used to happen on the desktop too. I remember how many Windows users would claim how much cheaper their system was. But when we began comparing straight across the board, feature to feature, the price was similar.

So also here. The server and network communities are discovering about Apple X Serve, when you compare features/power/performance, the price differential is no longer a major factor.
 
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filosofer: At first glance, that is usually the response. That used to happen on the desktop too. I remember how many Windows users would claim how much cheaper their system was. But when we began comparing straight across the board, feature to feature, the price was similar.
I did a price/performance match for a solid gaming box and found that the equivalent Mac cost twice the price of a handbuilt PC.

As soon as Apple can boast a reasonable price comparison, I might consider a Mac, but I don't consider OSX to be worth a grand and a half.
 
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stray bullet

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Originally posted by JagSayon
Hey, you know, Jaguar - Jag...heh heh.

Anyway, I personally feel the upgrade path is easier than a Mac. I can just go to any computer store I know and they'll have parts sitting on shelves and you can buy them according to your system specs and just install them. I haven't seen a store that sells Mac upgrade parts though. Also, the information pertaining to how a Mac works and their components are also much rarer than your average PC.

I really don't follow the hardware argument.

Macs use pretty much the same hardware and equipment as PCs. Want to add an extra harddrive, want to add more RAM... same stuff. I didn't buy a Mac-specific CDRW and printer for my Mac recently, I just two devices that were USB, worked fine. My extra harddrive, my 2 extra sticks of RAM.. my MP3 player... they all worked fine. None of these were 'Mac' parts.
 
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I can’t build and customize them so I don’t own them. Mac is proprietary and a pain in the flashlight to work on. I will say though that on the support side there are less worries being that there are lees deviations between one system to another. With limited OS’s and applications there are less things for the technician to need to be in the need to know about in comparison to PC clone support. What it’s designed for lives up to the manufactures expectations and that is a system that they have full control over in regards of what you can or can’t do with it. I often view the Mac as the AOL of the personal computer world being that they are both so limiting that they are easy to operate.

Have I bashed it enough yet? Okay I do like OS X but it still needs some work. I like setting up UNIX type systems so Mac caught my attention when they released their UNIX based OS (OS X). Though it was a very sad launch they are still improving the functionality of their new OS that I think may save the system from going the way of the Commodore 64.

The greatest thing I had to say about Mac was always the 802.11b (fire wire) but with the introduction of USB2 (802.11b) for the PC it makes the Mac just another system with an 802.11b. I don’t know how long it will take Mac to introduce their version of 802.11a but I’m sure they will because this is what makes the Mac so input friendly for acquiring video images for editing. This was always their battle cry when going head to head with other systems but at least the can boast in OS X since they lost the video edge.

Oh weeell, enough ranting from me on this subject.

Peace
 
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Aye, as for Apple's new operating system it's the most advanced in the world...PHEW! Because Microsoft was getting mighty close there with Windows XP (the name of which was announced AFTER Apple's OS's name was...but then Apple is the most copied computer maker on the planet so I shouldn't be surprised).
As to comments on Apple's market share I have this to say: Steve Jobs (on of the founders and the present CEO) seems to be pretty whacky, and not much interested in expanding the market share at the expense of the "coolness" factor. Read: Steve Jobs doesn't really WANT Macs to be used for Excel work, he want's them to be thought of as creative workstations, the realm of Video Editing and Sound Producing, graphics, etc. He wants it to be used by surfers and presidents and teachers and moms...just about everybody besides your "boring" (now I work in an office so don't get me wrong) office worker. At least thats my take:) I think his Shareholders hold him in line to some extent. Plus, I've found that I work faster in the Macintosh operating system, because it is much more intuitive (at first) and because as an advanced user things are easier to get at, I shave microsectonds off my times doing repetetive jobs and end up saving almost an hour a day (you can tell I'm on the computer a lot:) from doing the same thing on a windows machine. (and thats including the fact that the windows machines (Running XP) are a lot faster than my 400Mhz G3 with a 512k L2 cache)

Apples products are usually designed incredibly well...each little touch is carefully thought out. AND they're not that much more expensive...feature by feature I usually only find real savings in build-it-yourself PC's. (and that is the PC industries strength: decentralization. Centralization, however, is Apple's strenght: as Stevie Wonder says: "Apple makes the whole widget" They generally have better engineered systems with fewer and wider bottlenecks. Also note that Intel often announces new processors with key "new" technology that Motorola and IBM have been using for years, albeit at slower clock speeds. The move towards RISK processors is an example of what usually happens with technology connected with Apple. (Intels new chips with that double-thread ability thingy (I forgot what the advertised name is) are pretty spiffy though:))

Somewhat near the end; What really gets me about Apple products is their intuitiveness. I find it nowhere else in the computer world these days, I've seen three year olds figure out how to turn my iMac on and get to the game they want without even being able to read...and this was something they couldn't do with their PC. (HA! they couldn't even turn their PC on...and though thats such a tiny thing, but when you think about it it's pretty important) I can get a new Apple operating system, or application (which usually follow Apple's Human Interface Guidelines) that I've never used before and just get right into using it, relying on my cleverness to figure out how to do what I want. (I've been carefull to differentiate what I could figure out because the thing was intuitive, and what I could figure out because the thing was in the same pattern as something I'd already learned: ie: Apple's basic structure of things) That just isn't there with most Windows applications, and Windows itself.
Just add to this that Apple makes what is critically considered the best MP3 player on the market (iPod), the best consumer computer system on the market (new iMac), and the critically considered best Operating System on the market (Mac OS X) (I've read reviews from XP users who will continue to use XP, and counsel others to use XP, but say that Mac OS X is a better operating system) (all prior "bests" are from what I've read in magazines, other forums, and internet news sites. I feel they are pretty solid statements, the shakiest one would probably be the OS one, that's the one that depends most on your preference, the others are pretty much more black and white)

aight cheers, tell me where I'm wrong (and back it up of course:)
 
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Hi l33tace,

I just wanted to quickly clarify a few terms that you're mixing up. Firewire is known as IEEE 1394. I believe that 802.11b is for wireless communications. (For example, my airport card in the powerbook that I'm using is 802,11b compliant. Just the same, 802.11a doesn't represent USB 2.

I'm not too sure what you mean with Macs just being another system with 802.11b. (Assuming you mean firewall) If you're comparing both USB 2 and firewire, USB 2 doesn't sustain it's peak throughput, and generally lags behind current firewire sutaineable speeds. For this reason alone, I'd be very suprised to see products like digi-video cameras switch to USB 2. (Especially with the next gen of Firewire approaching..yum)

If I'm incorrect on any of this, feel free to slap me upside the head. :)
 
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Evangelion

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I have a PC, and I won't use anything else. Macs are very good at what they're designed for - and yes, in some specialised fields, they're superior to PCs - but who wants to be a Mac-clone when you can have a genuinely Personal Computer that you slapped together, tinkered with, and upgraded all by yourself?

You just don't have that freedom with a Mac. It's all "Here, buy this. Use this. No, don't think for yourself - we've already done that for you. Oh, so you want a better system now? Well, ya gotta buy the latest model for that, monkey boy!" :rolleyes:

I see PC ppl with incredibly powerful systems that they've built up from scratch for less than a quarter of the price that you'd pay for a comparable Mac (that is, if a comparable Mac actually existed, which is well-nigh impossible.) How in the world are you going to upgrade your iMAC monitor for something better? Well, you can't! :(

By contrast, I was just reading about a guy who'd beefed his PC up to 2.4 Mhz, with 1 Gb of RAM. Now, how many Mac users could say that they've done the same - or even that they have the option to do so, should they ever have the urge?

No, PCs are the proper Personal Computers. Macs look great, and have all these handy little gadgets and gizmos. Yep, they're better built in many respects, and they have PCs beat hands down when it comes to compact technology and application-specific use. But, for financial economy, brute strength, user-friendly hardware (as opposed to the Mac's user-friendly software, which is all very well in its place), and unrivalled flexibility, nothing comes close to a PC. :cool:
 
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JagSayon

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Originally posted by stray bullet
I really don't follow the hardware argument.

Macs use pretty much the same hardware and equipment as PCs. Want to add an extra harddrive, want to add more RAM... same stuff. I didn't buy a Mac-specific CDRW and printer for my Mac recently, I just two devices that were USB, worked fine. My extra harddrive, my 2 extra sticks of RAM.. my MP3 player... they all worked fine. None of these were 'Mac' parts.

Since you have so many non-Mac parts, it almost sounded like a DIY PC to me. And if you're using a Mac and don't buy Mac parts, then why do you have a Mac in the first place? As you can see, even a Mac user like yourself is buying non-Mac parts, there isn't really much difference between a your Mac and my PC I think, with the exception of your motherboard and Mac specific accessories :)

Jag
 
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JagSayon, if it works with a mac, wouldn't it be considered a "mac part?" That's the wonderful thing about using standard equipment...compatibility up the wazoo. If something has to have the Apple logo on it to be a Mac part, then one could ask why don't you buy all your memory, hard drives, etc. from Intel. (Or whichever company)

It just isn't necessary.


If you're asking why Stray Bullet doesn't buy equipment from only Apple, I'd imagine he could get the same items cheaper elsewhere. That's why I purchased 2 512 dimms for my Powerbook at an online store other than Apple's last week.

As far as the original topic, I use a Mac because I enjoy the experience much more than a PC running Windows. OS X is incredibly powerful, the stability is incredible, and it makes working with my computer fun.

Regards
Sean
 
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Please tell me then, what is a mac part? Is USB a mac part? Apple by know means created it, but they were one of the first to widely incorporate it. How about Firewire? I don't think one can accurately differentiate between a mac part and a pc part if they're compatible.. (Unless you're talking about something like cisc to risc)

Evangeline, in regards to the response prior to your previous...

but who wants to be a Mac-clone when you can have a genuinely Personal Computer that you slapped together, tinkered with, and upgraded all by yourself?

I agree that if you wish to build a computer from scratch you'd be best without a mac. As far as who wants to do this? The majority of computer users do NOT want to have to deal with this type of thing--much for the same reason they won't use linux. They just need it to work. Although oddly enough, since the release of OS X, many tinkerers have added a Mac to their collection as well. (Compare any Slashdot article on Apple before OS X, then after.)

How in the world are you going to upgrade your iMAC monitor for something better? Well, you can't!

The same way you'll upgrade the monitor of any other PC all-in-one computer. Buy a new computer. If you want tons of expandability, you'd best be suited with the standing Powermacs.

By contrast, I was just reading about a guy who'd beefed his PC up to 2.4 Mhz, with 1 Gb of RAM. Now, how many Mac users could say that they've done the same - or even that they have the option to do so, should they ever have the urge?

Are you claiming that one cannot upgrade the ram or speed in macs? I would like to be absolutely sure of the meaning of the above paragraph before I respond.

User-friendly hardware

Please clarify this statement as well. Are you referring to the accessibility of a computer's guts? Ease of memory or hard drive upgrades?
 
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Evangelion

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Sean -

Evangeline

Evangelion. :rolleyes:

in regards to the response prior to your previous...

but who wants to be a Mac-clone when you can have a genuinely Personal Computer that you slapped together, tinkered with, and upgraded all by yourself?

I agree that if you wish to build a computer from scratch you'd be best without a mac.

:D

As far as who wants to do this? The majority of computer users do NOT want to have to deal with this type of thing--much for the same reason they won't use linux. They just need it to work.

Oh, that's undoubtedly true. I speak as one who did not personally build his PC from scratch. OTOH, I have tinkered with it extensively, and I do enjoy the freedom to upgrade and augment as often as I like, without being hampered by proprietal software and hardware.

Although oddly enough, since the release of OS X, many tinkerers have added a Mac to their collection as well. (Compare any Slashdot article on Apple before OS X, then after.)

Oddly indeed... :rolleyes:

How in the world are you going to upgrade your iMAC monitor for something better? Well, you can't!

The same way you'll upgrade the monitor of any other PC all-in-one computer. Buy a new computer. If you want tons of expandability, you'd best be suited with the standing Powermacs.

ROTFL! You can count the number of "PC all-in-one computers" on the fingers of one hand, matey! These days, the term "all-in-one" is pretty much limited to PC laptops!

You know exactly what I'm getting at. Why not just admit that this is a shocking limitation of the iMac? I mean... it's an absolutely fantastic piece of hardware, and there's nothing in the PC world that comes close to it for sheer elegance, style, features and compact design. But what the heck are you going to do with it after it's outlived its usefulness? You can't upgrade. You have to ditch the thing and go for something else. (And what a tragedy to have to ditch it! Those things are great!) :(

That's called "built-in obsolescence", and it's one of the greatest weaknesses of the Mac range. PC user (OTOH), can escape this by constantly upgrading.

By contrast, I was just reading about a guy who'd beefed his PC up to 2.4 Mhz, with 1 Gb of RAM. Now, how many Mac users could say that they've done the same - or even that they have the option to do so, should they ever have the urge?

Are you claiming that one cannot upgrade the ram or speed in macs?

Not exactly - I'm saying (a) that it's unlikely that any Mac user could get his machine running at this level, and (b) I've never even heard of anybody doing it. If it is possible, more power to you. But how much did it cost? What modifcations were necessary? How easy was it to get hold of the requisite materials, and why don't we hear about it as often as we hear about beefed-up PCs?

I would like to be absolutely sure of the meaning of the above paragraph before I respond.

I think I've made myself clear.

User-friendly hardware

Please clarify this statement as well. Are you referring to the accessibility of a computer's guts? Ease of memory or hard drive upgrades?

All of the above, and more. Remember, PC users have a dizzying array of options when it comes to upgrading hardware. We have masses of companies just itching to supply our hardware needs. We have the latest technology on tap; we can keep the price of our upgrades down by playing one manufacturer off against another; we can take advantage of market diversity and competition.

With a Mac... well, you can sit tight and wait for Apple to sell you some over-priced piece of equiment that won't work in anything but a Mac, or you can scrounge about for a PC part that's compatible with Macs. :cool:
 
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seebs

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Macs aren't much more proprietary than, e.g., Sony VAIO systems. They use standard parts for the most part; a drive is a drive, memory is memory, cables are cables, PCI cards are interchangeable unless someone at the card vendor company didn't feel like putting in even minimal effort.
 
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seebs

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BTW, evangelion, the "limitation" of the iMac just means there's a kind of mac which, by your claims, there is no corresponding PC for. There's a Mac that you can use as a "computing appliance" if you don't understand or care about upgrades. There's not much in the way of those in PC land. Want a more upgradeable machine? Get a normal powermac, instead of an iMac.

Most people never upgrade any computers at all; it's nice to offer them a simpler and more reliable machine, should they want it.

(This comes from someone who has around two dozen computers in his house, many of which have not had their cases screwed on in months.)
 
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