I Would be Ecstatic to Have a Gay Child!

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EnemyPartyII

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To the OP:

You can have a gay child. Socialize them into it, and you will have one. Just like religion. Now, later in life, they may disagree with you on that choice, depending on how socially aware they become.

Nonsense. You can't "socialise" an inherently heterosexual person into "being gay".
 
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FaithLikeARock

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how in the world can you have 1,658 posts on a Christian message board and still not understand that, to a Christian, life on this earth is secondary and that no matter how hard and how difficult and how even painful it might be to do right on this earth, we still would rather do that and support people doing that then watch people do wrong and go to hell???

So are you saying that you can choose not to breath?

No, of course not. Eventually you'll have to. You can't ignore stuff like attraction, hunger, etc. Because eventually it will kill you, mentally if not physically. If homosexuality is a biological occurrence, they will act on it. There is only a small sect of people with no or a very small sex drive. Most people have one that eventually, they'll need to fulfill. Otherwise it's like stringing them up by their ankles and hanging them upside down from a ceiling. All the blood will rush to their head.
 
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BlackSabb

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I don't understand how anyone could hate, let alone abandon their gay child. Personally, I would be overjoyed if my child was gay. Because gay people don't tend to have unintentional pregnancies! Not that I wouldn't be happy to have a straight, bisexual, asexual, transsexual, or intersexed child as well. I hope to love my children for who they are. Also, teach them about safer sex practices, and emphasize using condoms.

I just wanted to see a less negative topic on the first page. *grin* Also, I'm a very bored insomniac.


Firstly, I find this a little hard to believe. It's all well and good to be idealistic and see your children through rose colored glasses. But I believe that if it did happen, the gravity of the situation would sink in, and you would have reservations. Some of the things you mentioned are more obvious than others. There is no way on God's green earth that you would be "ecstatic" to have a transexual child. Just think about all the flak from your friends and relatives. Transexuality is much more obvious than being gay or bi.

Why would you be "ecstatic" to have a child that is going to be subject to hatred, taunts, alienation, discrimination etc? Isn't it easier for any person to be straight?
 
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BigBadWlf

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Firstly, I find this a little hard to believe. It's all well and good to be idealistic and see your children through rose colored glasses. But I believe that if it did happen, the gravity of the situation would sink in, and you would have reservations. Some of the things you mentioned are more obvious than others. There is no way on God's green earth that you would be "ecstatic" to have a transexual child. Just think about all the flak from your friends and relatives. Transexuality is much more obvious than being gay or bi.
So…it’s OK to reject a child because he or she is different?

What about a child with downs Syndrome? Or a child with cerebral palsy? Is it acceptable to reject such children because one might receive “flak from your friends and relatives”?

Why would you be "ecstatic" to have a child that is going to be subject to hatred, taunts, alienation, discrimination etc? Isn't it easier for any person to be straight?
IT is also the mark of a good person and a good parent that such acts of hatred would be confronted rather than use them as an excuse to justify hatred towards a child
 
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cantata

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So from this thread I've learned that gay men are damned if they don't look after their health, because then they're disgusting STD-ridden drug users, but they're also damned if they do look after their health, because then they're vain and fashion-obsessed.
 
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OphidiaPhile

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So from this thread I've learned that gay men are damned if they don't look after their health, because then they're disgusting STD-ridden drug users, but they're also damned if they do look after their health, because then they're vain and fashion-obsessed.
I wonder what that makes a straight guy like me when I eat right and work out. I must be a disgusting homosexual because they are the only ones that care enough about their health to be vain.

What?
 
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BlackSabb

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So…it’s OK to reject a child because he or she is different?


Who's talking about "rejecting?" Did I say that? I wouldn't reject a child for being gay, bi, trans etc, but others would. Please don't attempt to read between any lines. I'm simply talking about other people. It's a simple fact that other people would.

What about a child with downs Syndrome? Or a child with cerebral palsy? Is it acceptable to reject such children because one might receive “flak from your friends and relatives”?


Oh, that is ridiculous!!! Comparing apples to oranges. Comparing a child that's gay etc to one with some congenital disorder. I'm not even going to respond to that one.

IT is also the mark of a good person and a good parent that such acts of hatred would be confronted rather than use them as an excuse to justify hatred towards a child

Confront?? Are you for real? That would make the situation far worse. The last thing some poor gay, bi, trans etc kid needs is "confrontation". If anything, the child's disposition needs to be kept as secret as possible to avoid any traumatic confronting.

And how would you suggest "confronting" hatred? Bringing your child to another child's birthday party with his boyfriend? Having your son lounge around the home in a dress whilst relatives are over?

Come on, be serious. Your suggestion would scar a poor child for life.
 
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Axioma

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It is comparing apples and oranges, because unlike cerebral palsy, homosexuality is neither a diesease nor a handicap. But you make as much sense complaining that your child is gay as you make for complaining someone chose a Down Syndrome lifestyle.
 
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MarcusHill

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I just want my kids, when I have any, to be happy, good people. I want them to be open and accept others for who they are, too. With any luck, that will mean that if they're gay, bi, trans or whatever, they won't see "coming out" to their dad as some sort of big, traumatic event, as they'll know their sexual orientation won't make a blind bit of difference to how I feel about them.

My seven year old nephew knows about gay people (I'm not sure how much he knows about sex, he knows about people who "like" folks of the same gender). It wouldn't make sense for him not to, since he writes a load to his great-uncle (who is gay and a Christian), and some of his dad's best friends are gay. Purely from his interactions with people, he's growing up knowing that gay people aren't really different from straight people in almost any respect. He's too young to know whether he's gay or straight, but either way he knows he'll still be loved and, just as importantly, he'll go into life without stupid prejudices.
 
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PantsMcFist

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Nonsense. You can't "socialise" an inherently heterosexual person into "being gay".

Of course we can. There's all sorts of behaviors which aren't inherent to being a human, which our children are brought up into. Through operant conditioning and social pressures you can teach a child that virtually anything is normal. There's no way to ostensively define human behavior outside of culture, so whatever cultural scripts are given to children are assumed to be natural and inherent, but they're not. There have been countless peer-reviewed studies done which support this idea. I have none on hand to cite, so take it as you will.
 
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selfinflikted

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Of course we can. There's all sorts of behaviors which aren't inherent to being a human, which our children are brought up into. Through operant conditioning and social pressures you can teach a child that virtually anything is normal. There's no way to ostensively define human behavior outside of culture, so whatever cultural scripts are given to children are assumed to be natural and inherent, but they're not. There have been countless peer-reviewed studies done which support this idea. I have none on hand to cite, so take it as you will.

For clarification, are you saying that it's possible to "socialise" a child into being gay, or accepting homosexuality as "normal" behavior?
 
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MarcusHill

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For clarification, are you saying that it's possible to "socialise" a child into being gay, or accepting homosexuality as "normal" behavior?

An important distinction. In fact, if the fairly well evidenced hypothesis that homosexuality has a significant genetic component turns out to be true, a (genetically) homosexual person who has been "socialised" into the mindet that being gay is no worse than being straight is liable to be less psychologically traumatised than one who has been "socialised" into thinking that their thoughts are vile, sinful and liable to land them in eternal hellfire.

Yes, I can see how the actual existence of eternal hellfire would make the latter option better on balance. I don't, however, lend any credence to that hypothesis.
 
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selfinflikted

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An important distinction. In fact, if the fairly well evidenced hypothesis that homosexuality has a significant genetic component turns out to be true, a (genetically) homosexual person who has been "socialised" into the mindet that being gay is no worse than being straight is liable to be less psychologically traumatised than one who has been "socialised" into thinking that their thoughts are vile, sinful and liable to land them in eternal hellfire.

Yes, I can see how the actual existence of eternal hellfire would make the latter option better on balance. I don't, however, lend any credence to that hypothesis.

Well, I was hoping he'd say the latter. Because if he's trying to say that a child can be "socialised" into being gay, then that's absurd. If that sort of socialization was possible, then I'd be straight. I come from heterosexual parents and was reared in a very small town, that basically dripped heterosexuality. Yet, I'm gay.
 
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PantsMcFist

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For clarification, are you saying that it's possible to "socialise" a child into being gay, or accepting homosexuality as "normal" behavior?


Well, you can do both really, but I was referring to the former. Remembe I said that it's possible to undo socialization through self and social awareness, so there's no guarantee that children will always be exactly what you teach them.

As to the absurdity of it, look at the variety of behaviors in a variety of cultures. I'd be surprised if more than 20% of our thoughts and behaviors were due to genetically inherent properties. Genetics plays a part in homosexuality to be sure, but there's also a large number of social and psychological benchmarks which increase the likelihoof of someone self-identifying as homosexual.
 
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wanderingone

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Of course we can. There's all sorts of behaviors which aren't inherent to being a human, which our children are brought up into. Through operant conditioning and social pressures you can teach a child that virtually anything is normal. There's no way to ostensively define human behavior outside of culture, so whatever cultural scripts are given to children are assumed to be natural and inherent, but they're not. There have been countless peer-reviewed studies done which support this idea. I have none on hand to cite, so take it as you will.


You can do a lot of things to a child, that doesn't mean you will have actually made them gay or straight. You may condition them as if they were a puppy but the reality of one's attractions win out in some form or another.

While gender stereotypes, attitudes towards behaviors etc.. are culturally defined, and how people behave sexually certainly is influenced by their culture (hence all the gay preachers pretending to be straight) but what you generally have if you force traits on people is a psychological nightmare.

20+ years ago the case of the twin boys where one had his penis quite literally burned off during a botched circumcision is proof that simply raising someone a certain way doesn't mean you get what you tried to buy. The parents of the child were advised to take him home and raise him as a girl. It didn't work, although it took a long time for that to come out. Unfortunately he ended up killing himself a few years ago.

The counselor involved presented his case as proof that gender is not inborn. He failed to make the distinction between culturally defined behavior and biological fact. The child was born a male, and later evidence shows he was a heterosexual male. Being a heterosexual male he could not be forced to be a heterosexual female. As Brenda he was attracted to women, not men. No amount of hormones, surgeries, cultural training changed his inborn traits. (Although his emotional well being was certainly tortured)

Mind you Brenda/Bruce's case has nothing to do with being actually trans gender. Bruce did not feel he was a female trapped in the wrong body. He was an infant with a doctor who was ignorant enough to believe that having or not having a penis was enough to make you male or female.
 
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MarcusHill

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Well, you can do both really, but I was referring to the former. Remembe I said that it's possible to undo socialization through self and social awareness, so there's no guarantee that children will always be exactly what you teach them.

As to the absurdity of it, look at the variety of behaviors in a variety of cultures. I'd be surprised if more than 20% of our thoughts and behaviors were due to genetically inherent properties. Genetics plays a part in homosexuality to be sure, but there's also a large number of social and psychological benchmarks which increase the likelihoof of someone self-identifying as homosexual.

(emphasis added)

Yes, there are plenty of social reasons that would prevent someone from self-identifying as homosexual. For instance, I doubt you'll find as many people self-identifying as homosexuals in Mecca as you will in Manchester. Unfortunately, the socialised stigma of homosexuality in some cultures will have people who are gay living in denial. This means it's next to impossible to measure the actual incidence of homosexuality in cultures where it is heavily socially stigmatised, or even illegal.
 
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jcook922

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Someone tell me it's unreasonable to think that life would be better if we left it up to a roll of the dice, and we didn't try to brainwash our children or others.. If we let homosexuals have equal rights, and women the right to choose. Is it so bad to leave life up to the luck of the draw? If we fail as a species, then we just weren't good enough. If we can't co-exist without enslaving and controlling eachother, we shouldn't exist.
 
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WatersMoon110

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You can have a gay child. Socialize them into it, and you will have one. Just like religion. Now, later in life, they may disagree with you on that choice, depending on how socially aware they become.
As others have said, you can't change someone's sexual orientation (even if you can sometimes raise them to pretend to conform to certain expectations).

Also, I don't think you can force children into your religion, because at some point they will (usually) question those beliefs. Lots of people leave the religion of their parents. Especially (I think) because of lies or half truths they were taught about that religion, often by their parents.
 
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