No command to keep the Sabbath in the NT...

ricker

Regular Member
Feb 25, 2007
2,430
71
64
Minnesota
✟19,844.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
When man lives outside of God's will there is never any peace. The Bible tells us that the guilty flee when no one is chasing them. When we come to our senses and come to God for forgiveness we find peace, we find that rest that God is speaking of. It's a rest where there is no more hiding from God. It's a rest where there is no condemnation or guilt.

Lets look at some of the thoughts that run through the context of Hebrews.

Hebrews 2:1-3 Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,

Hebrews 3:5-19 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of trial in the wilderness, where your fathers tested Me, proved Me, and saw My works forty years. Therefore I was angry with that generation, and said, `They always go astray in their heart, and they have not known My ways.' So I swore in My wrath, `They shall not enter My rest.' Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today,'' lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, while it is said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.'' For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4:1-7 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, they shall not enter My rest,'' although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works''; and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest.'' Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today,'' after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts.''

Hebrews 4:8-11 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of disobedience.

This rest we enter into is the rest that Christ provided. It's a finished work just like the finished work when God finished His creation work. We enter this rest through belief in the saving work of Christ but we remain in this rest by keeping our conscience clean before God and man. How we do that is by not hardening our hearts to the voice of God, by not neglecting so great a salvation, by exhorting one another daily, by keeping the commandments of God, by being mindful of sin's deceitfulness. When we continue in this we will remain in His rest.

All throughout the context of Hebrews we hear God referring to the times when His people were in the wilderness when they rebelled and did not listen to the voice of God. Instead they did just the opposite.

Lets go back to that time and see what God was dealing with.

Ezekiel 20:16 because they rejected My ordinances, and as for My statutes, they did not walk in them; they even profaned My sabbaths, for their heart continually went after their idols.

Ezekiel 20:18-21 "But I said to their children in the wilderness, `Do not walk in the statutes of your fathers, nor observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols. `I am the Lord your God: Walk in My statutes, keep My judgments, and do them; `hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.' "Notwithstanding, the children rebelled against Me; they did not walk in My statutes, and were not careful to observe My judgments, `which, if a man does, he shall live by them'; but they profaned My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them and fulfill My anger against them in the wilderness.

Ezekiel 20:23-24 "Also I lifted My hand in an oath to those in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the Gentiles and disperse them throughout the countries, "because they had not executed My judgments, but had despised My statutes, profaned My Sabbaths, and their eyes were fixed on their fathers' idols.

Ezekiel 22:8 "You have despised My holy things and profaned My Sabbaths.

The people of God found blessing in the land of Canna, they found rest from their enemies yet that was not the rest God is speaking of. Even though they had a rest they still kept the Ten Commandments while in Canna. Jesus gives us a spiritual rest just like the physical rest they had in Canna but not to disobey the Ten Commandments. When we rest in Jesus we still have the Ten Commandments as our definition of love and rightousness that we must follow in order to remain in that rest.

Hebrews 4:13 Nothing in creation is hidden before God. To His eyes everything is naked and bare. We must give an answer to God.

Ecclesiaster 12:13-14Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man. For God will bring every work into judgment, including every secret thing, whether it is good or whether it is evil.

God is using the seventh day rest as a picture of how the work in Christ is finished and we can enter into the finished work. God is not saying the Sabbath is done away with, He is only using it to give us a picture of how the work in Christ in finished just like the work of creation was finished on the seventh day. The literal seventh day rest of the foruth commamdment is still there for the people of God but you can compare the finished work found in Christ with the finished work of creation.

It's kind of hard to explain, I hope this helped.

Blessings to you...

I attended an Adventist church service today, BTW. :)

Actually I understand what you and the Bible are saying, I think, and I agree with most of your conclusions. I would like make it clear Hebrews 4 is using God's rest after finishing creation, a completed work, as the "picture of how the work in Christ is finished", not the commandment given to Israel which comes around every week.

I would also like to add verses written to Israel under the old covenant do not necessarily apply to us. Do you keep all the statutes and judgements and sabbaths (note plural) given to Israel? This would encompass far more than the ten commandments.

May I be so bold as to say this does seem different from the assertions in your OP. I agree that Hebrews 4 does not negate the keeping of the seventh day sabbath for believers. It also does not command it, as your OP said it did.

I stand by my "research" in Strong's in which I find no basis for your statement:
So as you can see, there is a very clear command to remember to keep the seventh day holy, just as the fourth commandment says.
.

In my and many others opinion, including (I've heard) official SDA ones, a case can be made for Sabbath observance for Christians, but not in Hebrews 4.

BTW, did you answer my question about the "other day" God spoke of?
God bless! Ricker
 
Upvote 0
J

Jim Larmore

Guest
May I be so bold as to say this does seem different from the assertions in your OP. I agree that Hebrews 4 does not negate the keeping of the seventh day sabbath for believers. It also does not command it, as your OP said it did.

I stand by my "research" in Strong's in which I find no basis for your statement: .

In my and many others opinion, including (I've heard) official SDA ones, a case can be made for Sabbath observance for Christians, but not in Hebrews 4.

BTW, did you answer my question about the "other day" God spoke of?
God bless! Ricker

I hope you enjoyed your visit and your Sabbath worship brother.

What I wanted to comment on was your take on Hebrews 4 and the seventh day Sabbath. Let's look a little deeper shall we? First off I concede that "the rest" spoken of here includes God's rest from works. This set of texts primary theme is about not working for salvation, to rest from works in that regard, there's no doubting that. However, to ignore the 7th day Sabbath overtones here would be to not fully interpret and apply all of what Hebrews four is telling us.

Let's look at some facts:

1. By the mere mentioning of the 7th day in Hebrews 4:4 ,which tells us that after creation God rested from His works on this day, establishes this day as still binding for the new covenant Christian. This is true because the writer of Hebrews said nothing in the narrative here or anywhere else that says it's negated or no longer in effect.

2. The original language used in this narrative specifically labels the day God rested as "The Sabbath". Not just a 'sabbath' but The 7th day Sabbath . In this chapter the rest of God is likened to be like the 7th day Sabbath where we are to rest from our physical works from making a living every day. The comparison of resting from our works for salvation and the Sabbath rest is striking ( verse 10 ) and shows that the new covenant Christian that the Sabbath is still in effect.

3. The context in Hebrews 3 speaks of the "provocation" where some of the Children of Israel didn't keep the Sabbath as commanded in the manna gathering, and also didn't have faith enough to enter the promise land by accepting the bad report from the spies etc. Again, here this narrative still establishes the 7th day Sabbath as still binding by mentioning this in a new covenant book like Hebrews and applying it to the post cross Christian. In other words don't provoke God by disobeying His command to keep the 7th day Holy.

4. Lastly, in verse 7 and 8 we read where God limited the 7th day as significant and did not give us any other day to keep as a Holy day.

What I have listed above may be debateable but think about what I have listed here and ponder their truths. This may not be the best place in the Bible to support new covenant Sabbath observance but it certainly isn't a bad one, not by a long shot. Open and searching minds will agree I think.

God Bless
Jim Larmore
 
Upvote 0

ricker

Regular Member
Feb 25, 2007
2,430
71
64
Minnesota
✟19,844.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I hope you enjoyed your visit and your Sabbath worship brother.

What I wanted to comment on was your take on Hebrews 4 and the seventh day Sabbath. Let's look a little deeper shall we? First off I concede that "the rest" spoken of here includes God's rest from works. This set of texts primary theme is about not working for salvation, to rest from works in that regard, there's no doubting that. However, to ignore the 7th day Sabbath overtones here would be to not fully interpret and apply all of what Hebrews four is telling us.

Let's look at some facts:

1. By the mere mentioning of the 7th day in Hebrews 4:4 ,which tells us that after creation God rested from His works on this day, establishes this day as still binding for the new covenant Christian. This is true because the writer of Hebrews said nothing in the narrative here or anywhere else that says it's negated or no longer in effect.

2. The original language used in this narrative specifically labels the day God rested as "The Sabbath". Not just a 'sabbath' but The 7th day Sabbath . In this chapter the rest of God is likened to be like the 7th day Sabbath where we are to rest from our physical works from making a living every day. The comparison of resting from our works for salvation and the Sabbath rest is striking ( verse 10 ) and shows that the new covenant Christian that the Sabbath is still in effect.

Please correct me if I'm srong, but according to the Greek, verse 4 is saying " hebdomos" (seventh), not sabbatismos (sabbath), in referring to the day God entered His Rest. I don't see where the rest of God is likened to the seventh day sabbath, but God's rest on the seventh day of creation, which was never resumed .


3. The context in Hebrews 3 speaks of the "provocation" where some of the Children of Israel didn't keep the Sabbath as commanded in the manna gathering, and also didn't have faith enough to enter the promise land by accepting the bad report from the spies etc. Again, here this narrative still establishes the 7th day Sabbath as still binding by mentioning this in a new covenant book like Hebrews and applying it to the post cross Christian. In other words don't provoke God by disobeying His command to keep the 7th day Holy.

You may want to re-read Hebrews 3. I don't see anything about manna-gathering, or the sabbath mentioned. It speaks of rebellion, but in context that would seem to indicate the scenario of the spies.


4. Lastly, in verse 7 and 8 we read where God limited the 7th day as significant and did not give us any other day to keep as a Holy day.
Verses 7 and 8 don't mention the sabbath at all.
You need to establish any mention of the recurring sabbath commandment in Hebrews 4 before you can make any claims that this chapter upholds it. I admit it doesn't abolish it either.

What I have listed above may be debateable but think about what I have listed here and ponder their truths. This may not be the best place in the Bible to support new covenant Sabbath observance but it certainly isn't a bad one, not by a long shot. Open and searching minds will agree I think.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

I don't neccessarily disagree with all your points, I just feel I need to point out if there are what I feel may be inconsistencies with what you say and what the Bible says.
God bless! Ricker
 
Upvote 0
J

Jim Larmore

Guest
I don't neccessarily disagree with all your points, I just feel I need to point out if there are what I feel may be inconsistencies with what you say and what the Bible says.
God bless! Ricker

I want to respond to each of your points so let's begin.

I hear this arguement about God not resuming the Sabbath after creation but think about what you are saying and consider these things for a minute. God also never resumed directly creating anything after the 7th day either but does that fact negate His acts on the first 6 days or make them insigificant? What about the rest of the Bible where we see evidence that all of the writers observing the Sabbath? Biblical examples, like Ex 20:8-11 where we are told to keep the 7th day as a memorial of this creation week is significant I think. Additionally, what about Gen 2:1-3 where we find God blessing the 7th day and "Sanctifying it. To sanctify something by defintion means to set it aside for Holy use. Lastly, what about the 7 day weekly cycle? If God hadn't intended for us to repeat the 7 day cycle and observe the 7th day why do we still have it to this day instead of an ongoing progression of sequential days progressing into the future for infinity? The fact we still have a 7 day cycle is significant I think.

Concerning what is said in verse 4 let's look at that.
4. "For He spake in a certain place of "the seventh day on this wise" and God did rest the seventh day from all His works."

The word seventh day is "hebomos" from "hepta", the word for rest is "katapono" or cease, desist, rest. Here we don't see the word "Sabbatimos" but it is implied especially when you look at verse 9 as a context for verse 4 where the original language plainly gives us the word "sabbatismos" saying there remains a Sabbath days rest for the people of God. Also, this ties directly into Gen 2:1-3 where we see God resting from His work on the 7th day and sanctifying it. If the writer of Hebrews wanted to tell us that the Sabbath was no longer in effect this would have been a great time to do so. What we find is the opposite in that the writer clearly says the Sabbath remains for the new covenant Christian.

As far as the context in Hebrews 3 and the "rebellion", it includes the time when the spies came back and gave a bad report about the promise land but also the rebellion of the COI included not following God's commandment to not gather manna on the Sabbath day in Ex 16. All of this had to do with them choosing to go against God's commandments and they hardened their hearts. Does it specifically say it was the Sabbath they were hardening their hearts over? No but since the Sabbath is mentioned in chapter 4 we can conclude that it could be referring to that.

Verses 7 and 8 are contextually speaking of the "Sabbatismos" spoken of in verse 9 because they mentioned limiting a day. What other "day" is set aside for rest other than the Sabbath?

God Bless
Jim Larmore
 
Upvote 0

ricker

Regular Member
Feb 25, 2007
2,430
71
64
Minnesota
✟19,844.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I want to respond to each of your points so let's begin.

I hear this arguement about God not resuming the Sabbath after creation but think about what you are saying and consider these things for a minute. God also never resumed directly creating anything after the 7th day either but does that fact negate His acts on the first 6 days or make them insigificant? What about the rest of the Bible where we see evidence that all of the writers observing the Sabbath? Biblical examples, like Ex 20:8-11 where we are told to keep the 7th day as a memorial of this creation week is significant I think. Additionally, what about Gen 2:1-3 where we find God blessing the 7th day and "Sanctifying it. To sanctify something by defintion means to set it aside for Holy use. Lastly, what about the 7 day weekly cycle? If God hadn't intended for us to repeat the 7 day cycle and observe the 7th day why do we still have it to this day instead of an ongoing progression of sequential days progressing into the future for infinity? The fact we still have a 7 day cycle is significant I think.

You may be quite right about this, but let's not get sidetracked from Hebrews 4.


Concerning what is said in verse 4 let's look at that.
4. "For He spake in a certain place of "the seventh day on this wise" and God did rest the seventh day from all His works."

The word seventh day is "hebomos" from "hepta", the word for rest is "katapono" or cease, desist, rest. Here we don't see the word "Sabbatimos" but it is implied especially when you look at verse 9 as a context for verse 4 where the original language plainly gives us the word "sabbatismos" saying there remains a Sabbath days rest for the people of God. Also, this ties directly into Gen 2:1-3 where we see God resting from His work on the 7th day and sanctifying it. If the writer of Hebrews wanted to tell us that the Sabbath was no longer in effect this would have been a great time to do so. What we find is the opposite in that the writer clearly says the Sabbath remains for the new covenant Christian.
The writer clearly says the "rest" that God experienced after creation remains.
Actually, if you would go back to my post #6, the Greek word "sabbatismos" means rest, not Sabbath, which is sabbaton.
Strong's Greek dictionary says:
sabbatismos
Rest
From a derivative of sabbaton; a "sabbatism", i.e. (figuratively) the repose of Christianity (as a type of heaven) -- rest.
http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/4520.htm
Why wouldn't it say "therefore the "sabbaton" remains for the people of God", if that is what is meant?



As far as the context in Hebrews 3 and the "rebellion", it includes the time when the spies came back and gave a bad report about the promise land but also the rebellion of the COI included not following God's commandment to not gather manna on the Sabbath day in Ex 16. All of this had to do with them choosing to go against God's commandments and they hardened their hearts. Does it specifically say it was the Sabbath they were hardening their hearts over? No but since the Sabbath is mentioned in chapter 4 we can conclude that it could be referring to that.
The recurring sabbath commandment given in the ten commandments is never mentioned in Hebrews 4 (or 3). Granted this rebelling against God could be including the manna incident, as well as thier making a golden calf and many other times they disobeyed God.

Verses 7 and 8 are contextually speaking of the "Sabbatismos" spoken of in verse 9 because they mentioned limiting a day. What other "day" is set aside for rest other than the Sabbath?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

What do you mean by "mentioned limiting a day"?

9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest (Sabbatismos, a derivative of Sabbaton with the meaning "rest")for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

Again, link to this to see what Sabbatismos means in the Greek.
http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/4520.htm

We can say the Sabbath is still binding because it is in the ten commandments, or because Jesus kept it, or because Isaiah says it will be kept in heaven, or because there is a seven day week, or whatever, but Hebrews never uses the word "sabbaton". It only speaks of the completed work of God on the seventh day, and the one time rest in the land of Cannan that He didn't let the COI enter into, and the completed, not weekly rest we have from our works.


If you would please answer this if you would. What does Hebrews mean when it says this:

6It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. 7Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts." 8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.

What does this mean to you? I'm honestly unclear about "another day". Thanks, Ricker
 
Upvote 0
J

Jim Larmore

Guest
What do you mean by "mentioned limiting a day"?

9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest (Sabbatismos, a derivative of Sabbaton with the meaning "rest")for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

Again, link to this to see what Sabbatismos means in the Greek.
http://strongsnumbers.com/greek/4520.htm

I think when you look at the over-all message of Heb 4, even given what you are saying, you can't escape the fact that it mentions and supports the 7th day Sabbath along with the rest from works for salvation. I mean it specifically identifies the 7th day in verse 4 as a day of rest, this directly ties into Gen 2:1-2 and Ex 20:8-11. . Then it specifically identifies the rest in verse 9 as the "Sabbatismos" rest of the people of God. This is a derivative of Sabbaton the word directly used for Sabbath but can you say that this derived use here is not also including the 7th day Sabbath at all? I can't, not when the definition of "Sabbatismos" includes a heavenly rest.

ricker said:
We can say the Sabbath is still binding because it is in the ten commandments, or because Jesus kept it, or because Isaiah says it will be kept in heaven, or because there is a seven day week, or whatever, but Hebrews never uses the word "sabbaton". It only speaks of the completed work of God on the seventh day, and the one time rest in the land of Cannan that He didn't let the COI enter into, and the completed, not weekly rest we have from our works.

True, but what day did God sanctify when He completed His work?

ricker said:
If you would please answer this if you would. What does Hebrews mean when it says this:

6It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. 7Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts." 8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day.

What does this mean to you? I'm honestly unclear about "another day". Thanks, Ricker

It's a two fold thing Ricker. Look at the whole thing and think about what the narrative is saying. It's all about the rest of God. Application #1, The rest God entered into at the end of creation from His work ushered into our world the Holy Sabbath day forever at His command. This established the 7 day weekly cycle and provided a respite for God's people from a continual toiling and works. The Sabbath rest and the rest from works for salvation are parallel and the 7th day Sabbath is symbolic of the rest from works for salvation. This is one reason why we see Christ and His gospel in the Sabbath.

Application #2 the day set aside called today to enter into rest from works for salvation is part of the gospel preached to all mankind in the time this epistle was written. They didn't enter into it in the rebellion because they didn't have faith in what God told them. This was used as being symbolic of the same thing that may happen in our day. The writer specifically pleads with us to not harden our hearts as they did back then. Each time we celebrate the 7th day Sabbath we enter God's rest not only from our weekly work but from our works for salvation. Therefore, when it speaks of another day again it is two fold. One there is no other day given to us to accept God and His rest but today. Second, there is no other day set aside for Holy use but the 7th day Sabbath. One is symbolic of the other. Amazing how God's word is so deep isn't it?

God Bless
Jim Larmore
 
Upvote 0

ricker

Regular Member
Feb 25, 2007
2,430
71
64
Minnesota
✟19,844.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think when you look at the over-all message of Heb 4, even given what you are saying, you can't escape the fact that it mentions and supports the 7th day Sabbath along with the rest from works for salvation. I mean it specifically identifies the 7th day in verse 4 as a day of rest, this directly ties into Gen 2:1-2 and Ex 20:8-11. . Then it specifically identifies the rest in verse 9 as the "Sabbatismos" rest of the people of God. This is a derivative of Sabbaton the word directly used for Sabbath but can you say that this derived use here is not also including the 7th day Sabbath at all? I can't, not when the definition of "Sabbatismos" includes a heavenly rest.
Why can't a heavenly rest be a completed rest?

True, but what day did God sanctify when He completed His work?
Hebrews 4 does not address this question.


It's a two fold thing Ricker. Look at the whole thing and think about what the narrative is saying. It's all about the rest of God. Application #1, The rest God entered into at the end of creation from His work ushered into our world the Holy Sabbath day forever at His command. This established the 7 day weekly cycle and provided a respite for God's people from a continual toiling and works. The Sabbath rest and the rest from works for salvation are parallel and the 7th day Sabbath is symbolic of the rest from works for salvation. This is one reason why we see Christ and His gospel in the Sabbath.

Could be, but Hebrews 4 only speaks of God resting from His creation on the seventh day. I can see where using the root word in verse 9 could be thought of as upholding the idea of the seventh day sabbath. It does not, however, directly do so. Maybe we should let this rest (sabbatismos). :)


Application #2 the day set aside called today to enter into rest from works for salvation is part of the gospel preached to all mankind in the time this epistle was written. They didn't enter into it in the rebellion because they didn't have faith in what God told them. This was used as being symbolic of the same thing that may happen in our day. The writer specifically pleads with us to not harden our hearts as they did back then. Each time we celebrate the 7th day Sabbath we enter God's rest not only from our weekly work but from our works for salvation. Therefore, when it speaks of another day again it is two fold. One there is no other day given to us to accept God and His rest but today. Second, there is no other day set aside for Holy use but the 7th day Sabbath. One is symbolic of the other. Amazing how God's word is so deep isn't it?

God Bless
Jim Larmore



I still don't understand. How does:

"8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day."
mean that:
"One there is no other day given to us to accept God and His rest but today. Second, there is no other day set aside for Holy use but the 7th day Sabbath"
I just don't see the correlation. "God would not have spoken later about another day" means "there is no other day"? Maybe the word of God is too deep for me.
Thanks again, Ricker
 
Upvote 0