Russia protects its citizens from false-religion:

vanshan · Aug 12, 2008

This NY Times article is highly biased, but it does show how successfully the Russian government is protecting its citizens against false Christian sects, which had crept into post-communist Russia.

. . . Just as the government has tightened control over political life, so, too, has it intruded in matters of faith. The Kremlin’s surrogates in many areas have turned the Russian Orthodox Church into a de facto official religion, warding off other Christian denominations that seem to offer the most significant competition for worshipers. They have all but banned proselytizing by Protestants and discouraged Protestant worship through a variety of harassing measures, according to dozens of interviews with government officials and religious leaders across Russia.

This close alliance between the government and the Russian Orthodox Church has become a defining characteristic of Mr. Putin’s tenure, a mutually reinforcing choreography that is usually described here as working “in symphony.” . . .

The west, and America in particular, should do more to protect its people from false religion, but of course that'd require making intelligent assessments of the differing religious factions claiming to all hold the truth. Freedom of religion is not all it's cracked up to be, if it allows deceptive groups to flourish and lead people astray. Think of how many groups put forward a false-face, and hide their true teachings that are more controversial, or clearly false, until they've already duped people into joining their group. Lord have mercy on us!

Basil

Matrona · Aug 12, 2008

I think it's sleazy and abominable for heretics to encourage Orthodox people to apostasize, but nobody is going to think the Orthodox faith is anything worth joining voluntarily if we have to rely on civil force and intimidation to keep sheep in the fold.

It makes no sense to invoke freedom of religion only when it's to your benefit while denying that freedom to other people. This concept is what allows us to set up churches in the United States, France, the United Kingdom, and every other country dominated by heretical sectarians. How would you like it if the Church of England decided it has had enough of those kooky Orthodox pulling their members away, and had the British government outlaw public Orthodox worship? Maybe they could revoke the citizenship of our faithful and deport our hierarchs too.

Barky · Aug 12, 2008

I'm on board with Matrona here.

It's hard to strike a balance between freedom and law when it comes to various faiths, but I think the US does a decent job with it. We must have freedom in the matter, because it reflects what the Lord has given us.

vanshan · Aug 12, 2008

On local television last month, the city’s chief Russian Orthodox priest, who is a confidant of the region’s most powerful politicians, gave a sermon that was repeated every few hours. His theme: Protestant heretics.

“We deplore those who are led astray — those Jehovah’s Witnesses, Baptists, evangelicals, Pentecostals and many others who cut Christ’s robes like bandits, who are like the soldiers who crucified Christ, who ripped apart Christ’s holy coat,” declared the priest, the Rev. Aleksei D. Zorin.

Such language is familiar to Protestants in Stary Oskol, who number about 2,000 in a city of 225,000.

. . . Protestants — roughly 2 million in a total population of 142 million . . .

In our morning prayers we pray that God will bring unity to all Christians and bring the apostates back into the Holy Orthodox Faith, so this seems like an answer to prayer, despite the criticisms of humanists, who hold a secular view of human rights.

Basil

vanshan · Aug 12, 2008

Despite restrictions on the spread of heresy, I would hope those who remain bound to false religion are given the freedom of conscience to personally continue in their error, but I can't say I disagree with efforts to stop it's spread to others.

How have the Christians empires protected the faithful in the past? I don't necessarily support it, but in the past heretics were banished, including some of our saints who were falsely judged as heterodox, to foreign lands to stop the pollution of the true faith. It seems very extreme to our western "everything goes" sensibilities, but are we really superior for not attempted to protect people from the deceit of false religions. We have a Center for Disease Control, which concerns itself with protecting us from temporal concerns of disease in this fleeting life, but what about protecting us from spiritual illness, which sickens and destroys us eternally?

I am just thinking about this myself, so I'm not offering any solutions, but I think we should look to the fathers and saints to see what the correct action of a government should be, or those in authority who have the power to protect others.

Basil

Mytheodos · Aug 12, 2008

How would you like it if the Church of England decided it has had enough of those kooky Orthodox pulling their members away, and had the British government outlaw public Orthodox worship?

I doubt that would happen in Great Britain due to the fact that Prince Philips is Greek Orthodox,and his son Prince Charles frequently visits Mount Athos.As one Athonite monk said"Prince Charles is Orthodox in his heart".

christianmomof3 · Aug 12, 2008

here is a quote from that article:

The archbishop denied that the church disparaged Protestants.
In our sermons, you will never hear us trying to condemn them or say that they do anything wrong, he said.
In fact, on the day the archbishop was being interviewed, local television was repeatedly showing the sermon of his deputy, Father Zorin, likening Protestants to those who killed Jesus Christ.

Philothei · Aug 12, 2008

I would agree with Matrona ONLY if our children were treated as "equally" to religious practices that of the minorities...ie. respecting that we have a different Holy Week services than Catholics... (we are a minority are we?) while we are "lumped" together with Catholics... and Protestants in this country. ..

Also allows us to celebrate "christmas parties" instead of holiday parties....Allows us to pray as they allow Muslim kids to pray... etc... Then we can talk of 'minority' rights....

In Greece, my daughter was having prayer every morning at her school. The muslims were allowed if they wanted to do their 'prayers' with time given to them also...for the atheists it was time to do whatever...

It is not even "secular" view of human rights....it is plain out "anti-democratic" where majority rules... Now minority rules....

What is unfair is that the smaller you are the less chances you have for your rights..
Another example in our local university the Jews got their "own" graduation ceremonies because the graduation fell on Passover this year... We, the Greeks had to endure the fact that it was our Easter... right?

Well, when the local Greek-american kids asked to have their own ceremony after Easter...they were denied because of budget issues... Now who is playing favorites here.... if the Mulsim students would have asked they would turn backwards to accomodate them...also. Go figure...

ikonographics · Aug 12, 2008

vanshan said:
In our morning prayers we pray that God will bring unity to all Christians and bring the apostates back into the Holy Orthodox Faith, so this seems like an answer to prayer, despite the criticisms of humanists, who hold a secular view of human rights.

Basil

The unity of the Church can only be brought about by the Holy Spirit, not by political games.

Philothei · Aug 12, 2008

here is a quote from that article:

The archbishop denied that the church disparaged Protestants.
“In our sermons, you will never hear us trying to condemn them or say that they do anything wrong,” he said.
In fact, on the day the archbishop was being interviewed, local television was repeatedly showing the sermon of his deputy, Father Zorin, likening Protestants to those who killed Jesus Christ.

__________________

Taking one instance and making it to a creed is not fair either. The Hierarchy of the Church is not represented by this fellow neither is he a representative of the MP. The fact that the Protestant ministers have repeatetely violated "state laws" into establishing missions is as condemnable as that priest making this statement. I know it does not justify it rather it is a "knee-jerk" reaction.

Matrona · Aug 12, 2008

Mytheodos said:
I doubt that would happen in Great Britain due to the fact that Prince Philips is Greek Orthodox,and his son Prince Charles frequently visits Mount Athos.As one Athonite monk said"Prince Charles is Orthodox in his heart".

Prince Philip is an APOSTATE. He abandoned the true faith and eternal glory in favor of a false religion and temporal glory. As for Prince Charles, visits to Mount Athos do not constitute reception of the Orthodox faith. Spinning a chotki on your wrist and hobnobbing with metropolitans doesn't make you Orthodox any more than sitting in a garage makes you a car.

vanshan · Aug 12, 2008

juliagreece said:
The unity of the Church can only be brought about by the Holy Spirit, not by political games.

However positive change occurs, we can be sure it's by the power of the Holy Spirit opening the hearts and minds of those who return to the Apostolic faith. This power can be manifested in government officials, as well as anyone else. Sometimes it starts with the people as a "grass roots" move of the Spirit, but it can also start with leaders as well--let's not limit God. When many nations converted en masse, it was top down conversion, which could be called "political." Does that invalidate the resulting embrace of the Orthodox faith?

The govermnent of Russia is encouraging and supporting the Orthodox faith there, and restricting sects, which in reality are harmful. As long as they aren't doing it by military force, or by the edge of the sword, isn't this a worthy action? They say 71% of Russians associate themselves with the Orthodox faith, up from 59% only a few years ago. This is an unprecidented revival, which is worthy of celebration. Let's pray the corruption and other problems facing Russia are healed as the country regains it's heart.

Basil

Philothei · Aug 12, 2008

juliagreece said:
The unity of the Church can only be brought about by the Holy Spirit, not by political games.

I would agree with you if the Protestant groups that "enter" Orthodox countries would have the same "pure and clean" motives... They do not though... i am sure you are familiar with the Jehovah witness in Greece and their propaganda voilating every possible state law. Even giving out "missales" outside our churches....agggrrrrrr.

Philothei · Aug 12, 2008

Matrona said:
Prince Philip is an APOSTATE. He abandoned the true faith and eternal glory in favor of a false religion and temporal glory. As for Prince Charles, visits to Mount Athos do not constitute reception of the Orthodox faith. Spinning a chotki on your wrist and hobnobbing with metropolitans doesn't make you Orthodox any more than sitting in a garage makes you a car.

Matrona,

Do you really know for fact that prince Philip is an apostate? I mean he is married outside the Church does not make him an apostate....

Also about Prince Charles I agee....He is just by far an Orthodox....

Anhelyna · Aug 12, 2008

I'm sorry to but in on this

BUT

Prince Philip is a member of the Church of England and so is Prince Charles .

Sorry folks - but that's the way it is

Thekla · Aug 12, 2008

The US has in the past encouraged missionary activity to effect a shift in economic and social norms (ex. the Philippines). Missionaries have been used in the effort to effect the same stateside as well (American Indian schools in the contiguous US and Alaska - in the last case forcibly de-converting children from Orthodoxy). US Christian support for 'de-Catholicizing' Latin America inadvertently funded brutally repressive governments. In light of this history, can it be surprising that caution on the matter would seem sensible ?

Matrona · Aug 12, 2008

Philothei said:
Matrona,

Do you really know for fact that prince Philip is an apostate? I mean he is married outside the Church does not make him an apostate....

Also about Prince Charles I agee....He is just by far an Orthodox....

YES we do know it for a fact. He had to renounce the true faith and join the Church of England in order to marry Elizabeth. He is no one to admire.

Philothei · Aug 12, 2008

Well, court responsibilities i guess come first... He is Austrian and his family converts to our faith ages ago.... Our own King in exile though is as Orthodox as they come...that is king's Philip's nephew...Constantine. His children both are still Orhtodox too

...

Philothei · Aug 12, 2008

Thekla said:
The US has in the past encouraged missionary activity to effect a shift in economic and social norms (ex. the Philippines). Missionaries have been used in the effort to effect the same stateside as well (American Indian schools in the contiguous US and Alaska - in the last case forcibly de-converting children from Orthodoxy). US Christian support for 'de-Catholicizing' Latin America inadvertently funded brutally repressive governments. In light of this history, can it be surprising that caution on the matter would seem sensible ?

aha.... well. We can turn a "deaf ear" when it is "appropriate"....can we?

Barky · Aug 12, 2008

I'm glad I don't have to make these decisions. It is truly overwhelming... Lord have mercy on us!

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