Women Who Have Abortions Should Get Help, Compassion Not Prison

geocajun said:

I think there are many ways of teaching lessons - one of them is proactive education, and another is reactive punishment. Is that so unreasonable? If abortion is illegal, then the punishment must be severe enough to ensure it is not worth while, and the person would never do it again, and in addition it should show the value for the life which was taken.

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And abortion is not illegal. So, it makes the argument for prison time for abortion doctors or patients completely irrelevant.

When the majority of society shows they want abortion to be illegal, they will push for it. As of yet, this hasn't happened.

If you want abortion to be illegal, vote for a pro-life candidate. But to expect other people to follow one's own personal guidelines/morals/ethics is completely against basic freedoms.

Pure, harsh, vengeful punishment doesn't work. There's a reason why prisons have rehabilitative programmes.

It does make it wrong if one jaywalks - the circumstances of where they jaywalk may lower thier responsibility, but jaywalking is still illegal, and thus it is wrong to do it.

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Wouldn't the chance of death outweigh the illegality of the action? As I said, sometimes when downtowne, one has to jaywalk. If its defensive, the illegality of jaywalking is negated.

I'd also like to mention that everyone jaywalks downtowne. I have never seen anyone been ticketed or arrested.

Quirk said:

And abortion is not illegal. So, it makes the argument for prison time for abortion doctors or patients completely irrelevant.

When the majority of society shows they want abortion to be illegal, they will push for it. As of yet, this hasn't happened.

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hello? did you miss the context of this thread???

If you want abortion to be illegal, vote for a pro-life candidate. But to expect other people to follow one's own personal guidelines/morals/ethics is completely against basic freedoms.

Pure, harsh, vengeful punishment doesn't work. There's a reason why prisons have rehabilitative programmes.

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out of context, and a strawman argument. I see you've run out of smart things to say. That was quick.

Wouldn't the chance of death outweigh the illegality of the action? As I said, sometimes when downtowne, one has to jaywalk. If its defensive, the illegality of jaywalking is negated.

I'd also like to mention that everyone jaywalks downtowne. I have never seen anyone been ticketed or arrested.

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Chance of death if one does not jay walk? so the cars are jumping up on the curb to hit people waiting for the light? if that is the case, then re-read my argument about circumstances reducing culpability.
And just because everyone breaks the law doesn't mean its okay. That is an argument from popularity.

I'll go with compassion and help.

hugs and luv

I don't think there should be punishment for abortion at all - isn't having an abortion and having to live with it bad enough? People that are in circumstances where they could give a baby a good home aren't the ones having abortions (except in the case of complete idiots who know how to use birth control and willingly don't, but that's not most cases). It's not exactly a recreational activity, people. You're a teenager and your parents will kick you out if they find out you're pregnant, you can't afford to keep a baby or even stay pregnant (lost wages) and get decent prenatal care if you were to adopt it out, you were raped and can't handle the thought of carrying *his* baby to term, you have health problems that would make pregnancy dangerous, your boyfriend will leave you, etc. does not make it completely a woman's choice. In a perfect world, every woman would be able to carry every baby to term, and so they probably would, but it's not a perfect world.

Sad fact of life that the politicians running the most anti-abortion platforms are also those the most interested in keeping everyone in the dark about birth control. Abstinence just ain't gonna happen for most, so either you teach everyone about birth control, or you deal with more people with unwanted pregnancies.

A woman who has an abortion's already serving a life sentence with herself and the ghost of her baby. Make it illegal again and you're going to have more women dying from trying to get rid of babies with coathangers, like they used to do when it was illegal before.

loststar said:

I don't think there should be punishment for abortion at all - isn't having an abortion and having to live with it bad enough?

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absolutely. Look how sad she is:




and her:



poor girls, they are so afraid to show themselves in public.

I don't think there should be punishment for abortion at all - isn't having an abortion and having to live with it bad enough?

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Okay, what about the person that got killed during the abortion. They no longer have to live with it at all.

There is no simple answer.

Is remorse enouph ?

BAFRIEND said:

Okay, what about the person that got killed during the abortion. They no longer have to live with it at all.

There is no simple answer.

Is remorse enouph ?

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I've seen killers cry for the folks they killed. Should they be let out of prison? just living with that is enough of a punishment, no?

I know a girl, who had the abortion. She did it because of serious healf problems. After that she tried thru years to explaine it her self - so rationally as she could.
But, the conscience don't die so easy.
I watched her long time... I seen what is happenend with her after abortion. She paid enouth. But the real tragedy is - no one warned her before, what is the price for that sin.

BAFRIEND said:

Okay, what about the person that got killed during the abortion. They no longer have to live with it at all.

There is no simple answer.

Is remorse enouph ?

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Sometimes there is no remorse...

I know a girl that had five abortions before she was 22 and the doctor warned her that she would have problems giving birth if she ever decided to have child too (because of the abortions). She had no remorse then and she has none the last I knew her.

I see people today viewing abortion as a form of birth control. Worse than this is that many people do not view the baby as a living being until it exits the womb or at least not until it's third trimester.

JacktheCatholic said:

Sometimes there is no remorse...

I know a girl that had five abortions before she was 22 and the doctor warned her that she would have problems giving birth if she ever decided to have child too (because of the abortions). She had no remorse then and she has none the last I knew her.

I see people today viewing abortion as a form of birth control. Worse than this is that many people do not view the baby as a living being until it exits the womb or at least not until it's third trimester.

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Reality check again.

First of all, Roe v Wade would make abortion illegal in those states that chose to pass a law restricting it.

I don't know whether our country could survive in an atmosphere where a girl in Utah could be thrown into the slammer with a copy of the Book of Mormon and the Bible for doing what a girl in California could do legally.

Realistically, the girl in the slammer in Utah's real "crime" (in terms of violation of man's law) would be not having enough money for a bus ticket to California.

No doubt advocacy groups would spring up all over the place, building "underground railroads" to get pregnant girls to states where abortions were legal.

Life is a delicate balance. Right now, there are small groups on both ends of the spectrum--"no abortions, ever" on one side and "unrestricted abortions always" on the other. Most Americans lie somewhere between those two extremes.

The way "middle-America" goes will determine, in the long run, the outcome of the abortion issue....

And what will influence them is which extreme seems to be the "craziest."

Right now, I would say that most Americans think that feminists are "crazier" than the most absolutist pro-lifers.

But if our prisons became filled with women who had abortions, that would change pretty quickly.

College campuses filled with picketers calling America "a police state."

Protests.

Public opinion would crucify the pro-lifers. Is that what you want?

geocajun said:

absolutely. Look how sad she is:

and her:

poor girls, they are so afraid to show themselves in public.

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Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

Unfathomable. I can't believe anyone would wear such a shirt.

geocajun said:

Who is more culpable - the drug dealer, or the drug user?

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If no one uses drugs no one can sell them.

Even proscouters don't care about drug dealer that much, they want the suppliers and importers.

And I'd also point out the your average hop head with half a key of grass will probably do to prison of 2-5 if caught.

A hop head is no threat to anyone.

So, I guess it jail for women who get abortion then, huh ?

Fair is fair and just is just

And I'd also point out the your average hop head with half a key of grass will probably do to prison of 2-5 if caught.

A hop head is no threat to anyone.

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What's a hop head? And since when do pot dealers use the metric system? Always struck me as strange that coke was dealt in kilos and grams, but pot in ounces and pounds...

nyj said:

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

Unfathomable. I can't believe anyone would wear such a shirt.

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Hearing from someone who has had an abortion and lived to regret it can be quite powerful in the pro-life campaign. I don't know that's the reason this woman is wearing the shirt, though.

There are groups out there like "Silent No More" who are made up of women who've had abortions, regret it, and seek to educate others of the truth about abortion.

LightHearted said:

Hearing from someone who has had an abortion and lived to regret it can be quite powerful in the pro-life campaign. I don't know that's the reason this woman is wearing the shirt, though.

There are groups out there like "Silent No More" who are made up of women who've had abortions, regret it, and seek to educate others of the truth about abortion.

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That is true. There are also women who have abortions regularly, and don't regret it at all. I know a lady who's sister is one of them. The sister has had over 4 abortions, and the only thing she regrets about it is the bill she had to pay
I do believe that later in life she will regret it.

geocajun said:

That is true. There are also women who have abortions regularly, and don't regret it at all. I know a lady who's sister is one of them. The sister has had over 4 abortions, and the only thing she regrets about it is the bill she had to pay

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God be with her.

My sister has told me and her son that if she could turn back time, she would have aborted him. My poor nephew is mentally tormented by the fact that his mom doesn't want him. I've tried telling him that even though he wasn't planned by my sister, that he is not a mistake. I'm Godmother to his sister - I pray that I'll be an effective influence in her life, and that she won't grow to feel as unloved as her brother.

In high school I had a friend who had an abortion. She said that she would have another abortion in a heartbeat should she have another unwanted pregnancy.

These are the only two people that I've met that seemingly embrace abortion.

My sister has told me and her son that if she could turn back time, she would have aborted him.

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That is the worst thing you can ever say to your children. Carry a picture of a bloody aborted fetus in your purse and the next timeshe says it, stick the picture in her face so she can see what she looks like when she makes that comment.

Two things keep me from taking part in any anti-abortion group -

1) The "you're going to regret it" argument that always comes up, and

2) The "look at this picture of a dead baby, does that change your mind?" argument.

Both fail.

The "look at this picture of a dead baby, does that change your mind?" argument.

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I think you missed my point, not to change her mind on abortion, but to show her what she is saying to her own child.

But for using pictures, I think that people should be well informed of what exactly it is they are doing. Even 90% of all fisrt tri abortions invlove severing of limbs. If a person cannot go through with an abortion after viewing the pictures and getting all the facts, is that a bad thing ?

If a person cannot go through with an abortion after viewing the pictures and getting all the facts, is that a bad thing ?

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Saving lives is a great thing. I would prefer it were accomplished by logical arguments rather than emotional placcards of dead kids, that's all.