Who are the 12 Tribes of Isreal?

Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER
Hi Frank,

Yes, there is no doubt about it. I believe all of God's righteous ones throughout all of mans history will reign in God's government to come. We will all return with him when He returns.

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I have news for you, Revelation says otherwise.  Unless your head will literally be chopped off because you are a Christian, you will NOT reign with Christ for 1,000 years:

"And I saw THE SOULS of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their foredead and their hand, and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years" Rev. 20

So, unless I am going crazy, in order for YOU to reign with Christ, either:

1. Your head has to come off.

2. You have to turn down the beast and its mark.

When are you planning on doing either one of these two things?  Oh..and you also won't do this in a physical body...you'll be a SOUL..that's what the text says.  It looks to me like your claims of the 1,000 reign are not very biblical after all?

Just a brief aside: In order for a "soul" to "come to life," it must have a body; and a "resurrection" must necessarily involve both a soul and a body. Just how many "resurrections" are there, anyway? I would suggest that "first resurrection" is a reference to order, not sequence. Martyrs are the first to share in the resurrection because they have shared not only in Christ's life, but also in his death.

Originally posted by LastDazed
Humans will need to know who is from which tribe if the Temple system is to be restored, for without positive identification of a genetic, Levitic priesthood, it would be impossible.

 

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Am I understanding u to be saying that u don't think god can call his children, direct them and then tell them who they r?

He said he would call them not he would call any 1 else and bring them back into the land. What business is it of any1's how they handle their promise? We r called to support them. Not question whether they r the right people. They went back they speak their own way and do their own thing it is only 4 us to support them. That is God's business and he does not call us to it.God bless u all.

Originally posted by Frank
The 1,000 year reign of Christ cannot possibly be taken literally.  I believe that the "1,000 reign" described by John in Revelation is the interval between AD 30 and AD 70, which happens to be exactly 40 years.  David, who was a type of Christ also reigned for 40 years.  Furthermore, when Israel came out of Egypt, they went through a transition period of 40 years, and at its end, under the leadership of Yeshua (the same name for Joshua, Jesus, Yahwek, Jehova, Salvation) conquered and destroyed the obstacle city of Jericho to reach the promised land.  In the same manner, the Church, after a growth that covered the world, and transition of 40 years, under the leadership of Yeshua, conquered and destroyed the city of Jerusalem in order to reach the antitypical promised land, the REAL promised land, the Kingdom of Christ. The animal sacrifices and the jewish religious system was an obstacle for the Church, and because of the heavy persecution, it threatened its very existence; therefore it had to be done away with.

I don't expect you to understand this, but if you do, praise the Lord!

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Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a <B>thousand</B> <B>years</B>,Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the <B>thousand</B> <B>years</B> should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a <B>thousand</B> <B>years</B>.Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the <B>thousand</B> <B>years</B> were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a <B>thousand</B> <B>years</B>.Rev 20:7 And when the <B>thousand</B> <B>years</B> are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Now we all know that every good and perfect gift comes from God and every wicked and ungodly thing comes from satan. For u to even consider such a thing has got to be an afront to the true and living God.

Because u r saying that even though the devil was imprisoned his works continued as if God who imprisoned him was going to rule in a kingdom of sin. Hello u already know that he can not stand sin and that it can not be in his presence.You know that God is life and not death, u know that God is peace. how could u entertain such thoughts?

Please fully consider what ur saying. In order for it to be true then God would have to be powerless if he could not clean up what the mess the devil made of his worl in 1000 years. Come on think man think. He formed eveything from nothing and u think he would rule a stinking polluted planet and not fix it

what it would take him 6 days top. Come on what has u so decieved? Never mind I know. Let me just say this about that. It never happened. And if u doubt it then u just pray about it and i am so sure he will tell u just what he told me.

And if u would like to know what that is pm me i'll be only 2 happy to let u know.

Originally posted by Dorothyne
Am I understanding u to be saying that u don't think god can call his children, direct them and then tell them who they r?

He said he would call them not he would call any 1 else and bring them back into the land. What business is it of any1's how they handle their promise? We r called to support them. Not question whether they r the right people. They went back they speak their own way and do their own thing it is only 4 us to support them. That is God's business and he does not call us to it.God bless u all.

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Hang on a minute good sister!

The Bible is clear that "not all who are of Israel ARE Israel"

That means that Just because you are a genetic descendant of Abraham (Supposing that is something you can prove, which it isn't) dosen't mean you are an Heir to the promise.

Your notion that we can't question anyone who claims to be Israel is misplaced at best, dangerous at worse.

The Secular, democratic Israel of Today has nothing to to with the "Israel"of the Bible. Israel f the Bible was a Theocracy, not a democracy. The Church today is The Israel of God. All who are "in Christ" are heirs to the promise, all who are without Chirst go into d*mnation. Even Christ rejecting, gospel denying Jews.

We are to support those who support and believe on the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and we are to call out to all who do not, to repent and believe.

Todays Jews are not God's chosen any more than todays Muslims, Bhuddists, Atheists, Pagans, Hundu's etc..

Christians are Gods Chosen. The elect of God.

Everyone else is lost.

Last Dazed...fabulous screen name...BTW, nail on head

Originally posted by 4jc
So, now let's look back to what you were talking about in Revelation. "I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded.....
Think about this for a minute. Don't you think that maybe these people were beheaded before they died physically?
If you don't think that, then can you tell me where you think they were beheaded after they died physically and by whom?
I am interested to here this.
Cheers.

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You are ignoring my question.&nbsp; How can you say you will reign with Christ?&nbsp; When will your head be chopped off?&nbsp; It's a simple question.&nbsp; The text actually says "those who have been beheaded" will reign with Christ, NOT EVERYBODY!

Originally posted by Frank
I have news for you, Revelation says otherwise.&nbsp; Unless your head will literally be chopped off because you are a Christian, you will NOT reign with Christ for 1,000 years:

"And I saw THE SOULS of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their foredead and their hand, and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years" Rev. 20

So, unless I am going crazy, in order for YOU to reign with Christ, either:

1. Your head has to come off.

2. You have to turn down the beast and its mark.

When are you planning on doing either one of these two things?&nbsp; Oh..and you also won't do this in a physical body...you'll be a SOUL..that's what the text says.&nbsp; It looks to me like your claims of the 1,000 reign are not very biblical after all?

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Hello Frank,

Not so fast buddy. Let's pull that scripture up. Keep in mind that this is one long verse. And it contains 4 different sentences. Not all have to be beheaded, but many will be and that does not disqualify them, or those who went in the rapture before them.

Rev. 20:4 - "I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.(period)&nbsp; And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.(period)&nbsp; They had not worshipped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands.(period)&nbsp; They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

That is only one verse. I believe there are two groups here. The 1st sentence describes one group, the 2nd describes another. The 3rd one describes why the 2nd group is allowed to be included with the first group in Christ's kingdom. And the 4th describes both groups.

I believe the most blessed is the 1st group. These are those who were raptured. They were willing to serve Christ without having someone threaten to take their heads. I believe those who get raptured are the faithful servants and it appears that they will be given authority to judge from their thrones. In the rapture, every believer longs to here their master say one thing, and that is this, "Well done good and faithful servant!" This group will include all the righteous ones chosen by God, even the old prophets from the old testament, and King David just to name a few.

The second group is not so blessed. They got there the hard way. These are the ones who missed the rapture and had to hold to their testimonies of Christ and reject the Anti-christ's mark of the beast. They were not willing servants. They were sort of forced at gun point if you will, and they knew they missed the rapture. They didn't die to self until the very last second, but they finally surrender their lives. They got caught off guard. They did not heed all the warnings and were never ready when the time came. The 3rd sentence explains why God was willing to take them in too, because of His mercy. The 4th sentence shows how they will all (both groups) come back to life and reign with Christ in the millennium.

This is only my opinion. I didn't get this out of a book. But even if it is not exactly correct, it shows that there is a possible way. It does not say that everyone must lose their head to reign, but even if it did, I would be willing. Some things in the Bible we just won't understand until we get there. But if the Bible says it, then I believe it. I have a very strong faith and I expect the God of miracles to be able to back up His claims, and He never fails!!!!!!!

Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER
Hello Frank,

Not so fast buddy. Let's pull that scripture up. Keep in mind that this is one long verse. And it contains 4 different sentences. Not all have to be beheaded, but many will be and that does not disqualify them, or those who went in the rapture before them.

Rev. 20:4 - "I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.(period)&nbsp; And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God.(period)&nbsp; They had not worshipped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands.(period)&nbsp; They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

That is only one verse. I believe there are two groups here. The 1st sentence describes one group, the 2nd describes another. The 3rd one describes why the 2nd group is allowed to be included with the first group in Christ's kingdom. And the 4th describes both groups.

I believe the most blessed is the 1st group. These are those who were raptured. They were willing to serve Christ without having someone threaten to take their heads. I believe those who get raptured are the faithful servants and it appears that they will be given authority to judge from their thrones. In the rapture, every believer longs to here their master say one thing, and that is this, "Well done good and faithful servant!" This group will include all the righteous ones chosen by God, even the old prophets from the old testament, and King David just to name a few.

The second group is not so blessed. They got there the hard way. These are the ones who missed the rapture and had to hold to their testimonies of Christ and reject the Anti-christ's mark of the beast. They were not willing servants. They were sort of forced at gun point if you will, and they knew they missed the rapture. They didn't die to self until the very last second, but they finally surrender their lives. They got caught off guard. They did not heed all the warnings and were never ready when the time came. The 3rd sentence explains why God was willing to take them in too, because of His mercy. The 4th sentence shows how they will all (both groups) come back to life and reign with Christ in the millennium.

This is only my opinion. I didn't get this out of a book. But even if it is not exactly correct, it shows that there is a possible way. It does not say that everyone must lose their head to reign, but even if it did, I would be willing. Some things in the Bible we just won't understand until we get there. But if the Bible says it, then I believe it. I have a very strong faith and I expect the God of miracles to be able to back up His claims, and He never fails!!!!!!!

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What are you talking about man?&nbsp; Will your head be chopped off or not?&nbsp; I didn't ask about who gets raptured or not...

Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER

&nbsp;I believe the most blessed is the 1st group. These are those who were raptured. They were willing to serve Christ without having someone threaten to take their heads........

.............The second group is not so blessed. They got there the hard way. These are the ones who missed the rapture and had to hold to their testimonies of Christ and reject the Anti-christ's mark of the beast. They were not willing servants. They were sort of forced at gun point if you will, and they knew they missed the rapture. They didn't die to self until the very last second, but they finally surrender their lives.&nbsp;

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I wonder if you could define "Blessed"?

In one sense, I suppose those who escaped having to die for their faith and simply coasted into heaven could be said to be blessed, but on the other hand, what greater honor is there than to actually give your life for your faith?

Clearly group #2 in your scenerio is the more "Christ Like" of the 2 groups, having had the opportunity, indeed the Blessing of being&nbsp;called upon&nbsp;to give their Life for testimony to the truth.

In that light, I beleve group #2 to be more blessed than group #1.

Originally posted by Frank
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What are you talking about man?&nbsp; Will your head be chopped off or not?&nbsp; I didn't ask about who gets raptured or not...

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Frank,

In all honesty, I would have to say no. I will be gone in the rapture. I plan on being one of those who escape before the time of trial that will test those who live on the earth, (Rev.3:10). But if by chance, I am one that gets left behind, then the answer would be yes, I would gladly give my head. If I didn't, then I would be separated from God forever. What fool wouldn't give his head, if it ever came down to that??

Originally posted by rollinTHUNDER
Frank,

In all honesty, I would have to say no. I will be gone in the rapture. I plan on being one of those who escape before the time of trial that will test those who live on the earth, (Rev.3:10). But if by chance, I am one that gets left behind, then the answer would be yes, I would gladly give my head. If I didn't, then I would be separated from God forever. What fool wouldn't give his head, if it ever came down to that??

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Ok, so then you will not reign with Christ...thank you.

Originally posted by 4jc
Frank, you are avioding the question addressed to you. Why


How do you suppose a spirits head can be cut off? Your the one who said it.
Please explain

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Sorry but the question is quite idiotic.&nbsp; The passages doesn't say that the souls will have their heads cut off.&nbsp; The passage says "the souls of those who have been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus".&nbsp; Where does it say that the spirits are having their heads cut off?

Originally posted by Frank
Ok, so then you will not reign with Christ...thank you.

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Frank,

Who died and appointed you judge?? Where did you get your plastic throne??

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...I plan on being one of those who escape...

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I believe we should all pray that we might be counted worthy to escape the coming tribulation:

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man" (Luke 21:36).

But note that Jesus is speaking to the same believers, the same "ye," in Luke 21:8-35 that he is speaking to in Luke 21:36.

I believe we will escape the entire tribulation and stand before the Son of Man (Luke 21:36) only if we die before the tribulation starts (Isaiah 57:1, 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21-23). Many of us Christians will go through the tribulation (Luke 21:31; Revelation 6:11, 7:14, 9:4, 12:17, 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 15:2, 16:15, 18:4, 20:4).

...before the time of trial that will test those who live on the earth, (Rev.3:10)...

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Note that Revelation 3:10 doesn't promise the church a pre-trib rapture, but simply promised the 1st century church of Philadelphia that it would be kept from the hour of trial, which was probably a great persecution in their own time, and they weren't raptured.