[size=-1]Hi teen,
This isn't a simple question to answer in my mind. It took me a lot of study and reading to find that just reading the verses with homosexuality in mind lead me to take my world view back into the the Biblical text instead of letting the Biblical text speak to me.
I'd give you a simple illustration.
KJV Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
We have the word fornication. Not a word that we can come up with a simple English meaning.
Then we have the phrase "and going after strange flesh" Which the Greek word is hetero not homo. Hetero being different and homo meaning same. So this in my mind make more sense that Jude when he was writting this was thinking of the angels ( different flesh ) rather than males (same flesh).
As you know from reading the story of Sodom and Gomorrha they were angels that that appeared in the form of men as they usually do that came to see and judge the city.
Hope this helps a little,
dayhiker[/size]
Your post virtually shouts for this question to be asked. What have you been studying? This post indicates you have been getting your information from prohomosexual sources. Have you ever thought to consult Greek lexicons and concordances, for the meaning of the words in the orginal. Have you thought to consult the writings of the ancient scholars, for example, the Talmud which records the decisions of Jewish scholars beginning at the time of Moses, or the writings of the early church?
The early church interpreted
αρσενοκοιτης/
arsenokoités [1 Cor 6:9] variously as,
• “sodomy,”
• “filth of sodomy,”
• ”lawless lust,”
• “lust,”
• “impurity,”
• “works of the flesh,”
• “carnal,”
• “lawless intercourse,”
• “shameless,”
• “burning with insane love for boys,”
• “licentiousness,”
• “co-habitors with males,”
• “lusters after mankind
• “monstrosities,” etc.
Quoted from;
• Ignatius, 30-107 AD;
• Polycarp 65 - 155 AD;
• Irenaeus, 120-202 AD;
• Theophilus, 115 - 181 AD;
• Clement of Alexandria, 153 - 217 AD;
• Tertullian, 145-220 AD;
• Cyprian, 200-258 AD; and
• Origen, 185-254 AD.
Note the dates, of these writings, extend from ca. 50 AD through 258 AD, more than 250 years.
The early church fathers interpreted the scriptures as condemning
ALL homosexuals acts; by
ALL persons, male and female; in
ALL places, under
ALL circumstance, at
ALL times,
NO exceptions. The ECF did
NOT even mention, and did
NOT limit the condemnation of homosexual acts to, “
homosexual rape,” “
temple prostitution,” pagan temples and/or religious activities!
Epistle Of Ignatius [Disciple of John] To The Ephesians [A.D. 30-107.]
But as to the practice of magic, or
the impure love of boys, or murder, it is superfluous to write to you, since
such vices are forbidden to be committed even by the Gentiles. I do not issue commands on these points as if I were an apostle; but, as your fellow-servant, I put you in mind of them.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.v.html
Epistle of Polycarp [Disciple of John] to the Philippians Chapter V.-The Duties of Deacons, Youths, and Virgins. [65 - 155 AD]
In like manner, let the young men also be blameless in all things, being especially
careful to preserve purity, and keeping themselves in, as with a bridle, from every kind of evil. For it is well that they should be cut off from the lusts that are in the world, since "every lust warreth against the spirit; " and "neither fornicators, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, shall inherit the kingdom of God, [1 Cor 6:9] " nor those who do things inconsistent and unbecoming.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.iv.ii.html
Irenaeus [Disciple of Polycarp]Against Heresies Book V [120-202 AD]
So also he who has continued in the
aforesaid works of the flesh, being truly reckoned as carnal, because he did not receive the Spirit of God, shall not have power to inherit the kingdom of heaven. As, again, the same apostle [Paul] testifies, saying to the Corinthians, "
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not err," he says: "neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor revilers, nor rapacious persons, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And these ye indeed have been; but ye have been washed, but ye have been sanctified, but ye have been justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." [1 Cor 6:9].
Since, therefore,
in that passage [1 Cor 6:9] he [Paul] recounts those works of the flesh which are without the Spirit, which bring death [upon their doers],
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.html
Theophilus to Autolycus Book III [115 - 181 AD]
Chapter VI.-Other Opinions of the Philosophers.
And these things the other laws of the Romans and Greeks also prohibit.
Why, then, do Epicurus and the Stoics teach incest and sodomy, with which doctrines they have filled libraries, so that from boyhood this lawless intercourse is learned?
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.iv.ii.iii.html
Clement of Alexandria The Instructor. [Paedagogus.] Book III [153 - 217 AD]
The fate of the Sodomites was judgment to those who had done wrong, instruction to those who hear.
The Sodomites having, through much luxury,
fallen into uncleanness, practicing adultery shamelessly, and
burning with insane love for boys; the All-seeing Word, whose notice
those who commit impieties cannot escape, cast His eye on them. . . .Accordingly,
the just punishment of the Sodomites became to men an image of the salvation which is well calculated for men.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iii.iii.html
Clement of Alexandria Exhortation To The Heathen
And what are the laws? “
Thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not commit adultery; thou shalt not seduce boys; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not bear false witness; thou shalt love the Lord thy God.” And the complements of these are those laws of reason and words of sanctity which are inscribed on men’s hearts: “Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself; to him who strikes thee on the cheek, present also the other;” “thou shalt not lust, for by lust alone thou hast committed adultery.”
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.ii.html
Clement of Alexandria The Instructor [Paedagogus] Book 1
But life has reached this
pitch of licentiousness through the wantonness of wickedness, and lasciviousness is diffused over the cities, having become law. Beside them women stand in the stews, offering their own flesh for hire for lewd pleasure, and
boys, taught to deny their sex, act the part of women. Luxury has deranged all things; it has disgraced man. A luxurious niceness seeks everything, attempts everything, forces everything, coerces nature.
Men play the part of women, and women that of men, contrary to nature; women are at once wives and husbands: no passage is closed against libidinousness; [i.e. every possible body orifice is used for “lechery”/“libidinousness.”] and their
promiscuous lechery is a public institution, and luxury is domesticated.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iii.i.html
Clement of Alexandria The Instructor - Pedagogos Book 3
Chapter 3
Against Men Who Embellish Themselves
Such was predicted of old, and the result is notorious:
the whole earth has now become
full of fornication and wickedness. I admire
the ancient legislators of the Romans: these detested effeminacy of conduct; and the giving of the body to feminine purposes, contrary to the law of nature, they judged worthy of the extremest penalty, according to the righteousness of the law.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iii.iii.html
Tertullian On Modesty [145-220 AD]
Chapter XVI.-General Consistency of the Apostle.
Just as, again,
among all other crimes-nay, even before all others-when affirming that
"adulterers, and fornicators, and effeminates, and co-habitors with males, will not attain the kingdom of God, [1 Cor 6:9]" he premised, "Do not err" -to wit, if you think they will attain it. But to them from whom "the kingdom" is taken away, of course the life which exists in the kingdom is not permitted either. Moreover, by superadding, "
But such indeed ye have been; but ye have received ablution, but ye have been sanctified, in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God;" [1 Cor 6:9]
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.iii.viii.html
Tertullian The Chaplet, or De Corona. Chapter VI.
Demanding then a law of God, you have
that common one [law] prevailing all over the world, engraven on the natural tables to which the apostle too is wont to appeal, as when in respect. of the woman's veil he says, "Does not even Nature teach you? " -as when to the Romans, affirming that the heathen
do by nature those things which the law requires, he suggests both natural law and a law-revealing nature. Yes, and also in the first chapter of the epistle
[Rom 1.] he authenticates nature, when he asserts that males and females changed among themselves the natural use of the creature into that which is unnatural, by way of penal retribution for their error. [Rom 1:27]
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.iv.vi.html
Tertullian VII. On Modesty.[sup]1[/sup] Chapter IV.-Adultery and Fornication Synonymous.
Accordingly, among us, secret connections as well-connections, that is, not first professed in presence of the Church-run risk of being
judged akin to adultery and fornication; nor must we let them, if thereafter woven together by the covering of marriage, elude the charge. But
all the other frenzies of passions-impious both toward the bodies and
toward the sexes-beyond the laws of nature, we banish not only from the threshold, but
from all shelter of the Church, because they are not sins, but monstrosities.
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.iii.viii.html
Cyprian Treatise XII Three Books of Testimonies Against the Jews [200-258 AD]
65. That all sins are put away in baptism.
In the first Epistle of Paul to the Corinthians: "Neither fornicators, nor those who serve idols, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor the lusters after mankind, nor thieves, nor cheaters, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers, shall obtain the kingdom of God. And these things indeed ye were: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." [1 Cor 6:9].
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf05.iv.v.xii.html
Origen Against Celsus Book 8 [185-254 AD] [student of Clement of Alexandria]
and that they often exhibit in their character a high degree of gravity, of purity, and
integrity; while those who call themselves wise have despised these virtues, and have
wallowed in the filth of sodomy, in lawless lust, “men with men working that which is unseemly.” [Rom 1:27]
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf04.vi.ix.viii.html
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Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jud 1:7 ως 5613 ADV σοδομα 4670 N-NPN και 2532 CONJ γομορρα 1116 N-NSF και 2532 CONJ αι 3588 T-NPF περι 4012 PREP αυτας 846 P-APF πολεις 4172 N-NPF τον 3588 T-ASM ομοιον 3664 A-ASM τουτοις 5125 D-DPM τροπον 5158 N-ASM εκπορνευσασαι 1608 V-AAP-NPF και 2532 CONJ απελθουσαι 565 V-2AAP-NPF οπισω 3694 ADV σαρκος 4561 N-GSF ετερας 2087 A-GSF προκεινται4295 V-PNI-3P δειγμα1164 N-ASN πυρος4442 N-GSN αιωνιου166 A-GSN δικην1349 N-ASF υπεχουσαι5254 V-PAP-NPF
The verbs translated “
giving themselves over to fornication” i.e.
εκπορνευσασαι and “
going after,” i.e.
απελθουσαι are AAP and 2AAP, respectively, aorist, active, participle, an action began in the past continuing into the future. The perverts of Sodom were prevented from completing any action against the angels, by blindness, and certainly did not do anything with any flesh afterward.
God punished Sodom and Gommorah for a long continued practice of "
outlaw inappropriate contenteaia."
From the time Moses delivered the law, to the Israelites, until the present, Jewish scholars interpreted the O.T. scriptures as condemning
ALL same gender sex acts; by
ALL persons, male and female; at
ALL times, in
ALL places, and under
ALL circumstances,
NO exceptions.
Recent posts: Evidence from Talmud, and other ancient Jewish writings,
Link
Hello fellow teenager in Christ.
