Are We In The Endtimes?

HisWordIsMySword said:

Acts 1:9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

You can choose to believe that Jesus will not return in this manner, yet I will believe the Word of God which says his return will in in the clouds. One should not add or take away from the Word of God.



You say we will not have a body, just be spirit. Yet, that is not so. For we will be given bodies that will never die. Our bodies will be changed from corruptible to incorruptible. Just as that of our Lord's who quickens all who believe in him.

Jesus' body was not spirit alone. It was an incorruptible body with spirit.

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

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Acts 1:11 is one of the most misunderstood verses in our New Testament! Let's draw some biblical lessons from the Bible to see what the account of Act 1:11 really says. Most people agree that Jesus was in a material body at this time. That is indeed correct. And many also believe that the Angels told the disciples that Jesus will return just as He left-bodily and visible. That is not what our Acts 1:11 says however.

Lets look at the verse 11 where it says: "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11) What was the manner that the disciples saw him go into heaven? Verse nine contains the answer. Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. (Acts 1:9) Verse 9 is speaking of the manner in which Jesus went into heaven. What was that manner? A cloud received Him out of their sight.

Now just to see if we are correct in our understanding of the manner in which Jesus would return in these verses, let's ask another question. Did Jesus ever mention returning in the clouds when speaking of His coming in the clouds? But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, "I put You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God!" Jesus said to him, "It is as you said. Nevertheless, I say to you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven." (Matthew 26:63-64) The first thing that should be noticed here (Jesus told the high priest he would see his return on the clouds of heaven not us today.

And then there is this verse. "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory (Matthew 24:30)." As you can see, these verses bear witness that Jesus returned in like manner to that of His departure. A cloud, or clouds, is the key. Clouds of course also speak of vengeance, wrath, and judgment against the enemies of God. (See Isaiah 19) Jesus was Jewish, and this was the reason why he chose to use Jewish apocalyptic language as He described His soon return to the people of His day. (Matthew 26: 63-64) The angels in Acts 1: 11 never made any kind of contradiction from anything that Jesus had already said.

Jesus as did Paul used many types and shadows from the Old Testament scriptures. Where did Jesus get all the concepts of God riding on clouds and stuff from? The Old Testament. He is the very same God who was riding the clouds in judgment. This is a very big problem if you don't understand the Jewish apocalyptic mind.

Many of us today face the same problem that confronted Jesus- trying to explain spiritual truth to those who insist on carnal literal interpretations to spiritual things. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth. (John 4:24)

HisWordIsMySword said:

Ezekiel 38 speaks of the attack of Russia upon Israel. As for more scripture that pertains to the end of days, it would take some time to list it all here.

Many, many have tried to predict the end. Yet, they use things without remembering the most important scripture that is the basis of knowing the time of the season.

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Gog and Magog
The second deceiving is after the 1000 years has expired. 1. Wars and rumors of war, the antichrist, and a falling away were signs of the first deception, maybe it will be the signs of the second. 2. Revelation 20:9 speaks to the last deception and the last of all battles. They the spirits( living have bodies) surround the camp of the saints and fire comes down from heaven and destroys them all. One of the difficulties in interpreting Rev. 20 is that as John was explaining things which must shortly come to pass like the binding of Satan.


There really is not two deceptions here. It is all the first century Jews.

For example the identity of Gog and Magog, I believe their identity is clear. Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations, which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saint and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them (Revelation 20:7-9)

The fate of Gog and Magog is to burn with fire from God out of heaven. This is the same as the fate of ‘Babylon’ and the ‘Mother of Harlots.’ We read in Revelation 17&18...And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges her (Revelation 18:8).

A clue, given us by God is showing Gog and Magog’s numbers to be as the sand of the sea. It was God’s covenant promise to Abraham that his descendants would be as the sand of the sea. No other people received that promise. The Lord does not want us to leave our common sense behind when we read Revelation.

Another very important consideration is this: Gog and Magog were enemies of God. In chapter 11 God calls Jerusalem spiritually as Sodom and Egypt. The unbelieving Jews have become like their ancient enemies. In Ezekiel 38 and 39 the prophet speaks about Gog and Magog coming against the people of God. Ezekiel also receives a word that the Lord will destroy the multitudes of Gog and Magog with fire.

Have you ever wondered why God used the names of Israel’s former enemies when referring to the Christ rejecting Jews? The answer is really simple. Israel’s enemies, throughout the Bible, warred, and plotted and attacked the people of God.

By God calling fleshly Israel the same names as her former enemies the Lord showing everyone that Israel is now the enemy of the true people of God. Fleshly Israel fought against Jesus Christ and His followers the church (Acts 4-1-27). Like

Israel’s ancient enemies they could not succeed. And fire
came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

HisWordIsMySword said:

Many, many have tried to predict the end. Yet, they use things without remembering the most important scripture that is the basis of knowing the time of the season. For instance,

Matthew 24:32 "Now from the fig tree learn this parable. When its branch has now become tender, and puts forth its leaves, you know that the summer is near.


The time clock did not start until Israel became a nation. And it says this generation shall not pass until all things are fulfilled.


33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.



For it is written that no man will know the day or the hour. Yet, we will know the season.


Be ready, for the coming of the Lord is near. Do not be caught sleeping.

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Israel Reborn or Judged

I never thought of the Jews in our day fulfilling any Bible prophecy because they are not the biblical Jews or Israel that is in the Bible.

1948 Israel?
The reestablishment of the state of Israel in 1948 is considered to be the most important sign that the second coming is near. One of the great problems with this dispensational view is that there is no rebirth of Israel or rebuilt temple mentioned anywhere in the New Testament. Nor is the supposed re-gathering of the Jews to their homeland. This is puzzling, because if the rebirth of Israel is the “super sign,” you would think it would be very prominent in prophetic passages such as Matt. 24 and Revelation. It simply is not.

There is only one passage that dispensationalists point to that they say speaks of the rebirth of Israel and that is in Matt. 24.
“Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.”

The thought is that the fig tree represents a re-born Israel. However, other passages in the New Testament cast doubt upon this interpretation. In Matthew 24’s parallel passage in Luke 21 Jesus says to “look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they are already budding, you see and know for yourselves that summer is now near (Luke 21:29-30).” Are we talking about the rebirth of many nations here? It is far more logical to assume that Jesus was merely using the fig tree(s) as an object lesson.

Moreover, other passages that could associate Israel with a fig tree always speak of judgment and never of any sort of rebirth.
“Now in the morning, as He returned to the city, He was hungry. And seeing a fig tree by the road, He came to it and found nothing on it but leaves, and said to it, ‘Let no fruit grow on you ever again.’ Immediately the fig tree withered away.

And when the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, ‘How did the fig tree wither away so soon?’

So Jesus answered and said to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but also if you say to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ it will be done.’” Matthew 21:18-21

Most scholars believe this particular fig tree did represent Old Covenant Israel. It was about to pass away and never bear fruit again. Jesus was not just mad because he wanted some figs and could not get any. Moreover, never again means never again.

Furthermore, when Jesus said that if they had faith and did not doubt, they would not only do what was done to the fig tree, but they could also say to this mountain “Be removed and be cast into the sea,” and it would be done. Was Jesus given them permission to tear up actual mountains and cast them into the sea? No, He was talking about something spiritual.

For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. (For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned or shot with an arrow.” And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”)

But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel. Hebrews 12:18-24

If they had faith, they would see the Old Covenant which was represented by Mount Sinai torn up and cast away. And indeed it was.

Let us consider another parable with a fig tree.

“I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish. Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.” And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’” (Luke 9:3-9)

Obviously, the fig tree is not a nation about to be reborn, but one that was about to be judged, and indeed it was. It is interesting that Jesus probably told this parable in the third year of His ministry.
Next we must look at the covenantal implications of the rebirth of Israel. God’s promise to give the Jews the land of Israel as their inheritance was an Old Covenant promise. This begs the question is the Old Covenant still in effect? If we say it passed away with the coming of the New Covenant, then so did the promise of the land.

However, if we say that it is still in effect for the Jews, we still run into problems. In the scriptures the promise that the Jews would hold the land of Israel was conditional. Deuteronomy 28 tells us “If you are not careful to do all the words of this law … you shall be plucked off the land that you are entering to take possession of it, And the LORD will scatter you among all the peoples, from one end of the earth to the other. …” If the people who now live in Israel are not keeping the Law of Moses (and they can’t be. The Mosaic Law ceased to be observed in AD. 70, and it has never been observed in full since.), how can we say that God has given them the land back?

Even if you say that God’s covenant with Abraham to give the Jews the physical land of Israel is still in effect, look what the Bible says are God’s conditions for remembering His promise.

“But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me, and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt— then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember; I will remember the land, Leviticus 26:40-42.

Did the Jews meet this condition before the 1948 re-gathering? No! This dispensational view essentially makes God a liar!

HisWordIsMySword, what exactly does Russia have to gain by attacking Israel?

All of these hokey and theologically questionable end-times scenarios can't seem to answer that question.

good

No one can predict when Judgement day will happen, It could be 1000 years from now or tomorrow. We will never know, but everyone should behave astho judgement day were tomorrow.

invisible trousers said:

HisWordIsMySword, what exactly does Russia have to gain by attacking Israel?

All of these hokey and theologically questionable end-times scenarios can't seem to answer that question.

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Thats just what happens when people think the prophecies in the scriptures are all for us today. People lose focus and fail to see how it all was fullfilled when Jerusalem was destroyed in AD70 and then the people were scattered throught the nations.

After Jerusalem was destroyed many people back then knew the scriptures applied to them. It is no secret or at least it was not back then in the first century.

It was not until the second century people started to wander because some of the prophecies were only spiritual in nature. They were expecting physical fullfillments to happen like Jesus coming back. However Jesus said he would come in the glory of the Father and we all should understand that the Father is Spirit not flesh. Yes Jesus did come in the flesh and was crucified but after His physical resurrection and ascendtion He was make to be a life-giving Spirit and then appeared in the glory of the Father when Jerusalem and the Old Covenant system were finally destroyed as was spoken of in Daniel.

HisWordIsMySword said:

Because in the time frame you suggest, it was not Russia at all as you suggest Manna. Your interpretation of the past is incorrect. It was Rome who attacked and destroyed at that time, not Gog and Magog.

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Josephus wrote that the Jews themselves did far more to destroy Jerusalem than the Romans ever did.

How Jerusalem Fell
Here is a brief sketch of how Jerusalem fell. I have deliberately left out many of the graphic details of this conflict. However, if one reads the full account given by historians such as Josephus, it becomes quite clear that this period was the worst tribulation Israel had ever known or will ever know. When it was all done, the bodies of those who died from starvation and bloodshed filled the streets, Jerusalem was in complete ruins, and the temple was torn down with not one stone left on top of another.

The friction between Rome and the Jews began to intensify around 60 A.D. By 66 A.D. the situation had become a powder keg ready to ignite. Israel itself was deeply divided between those who favored peace with Rome and those who believed that God would deliver them from Roman rule. The chief supporters of peace were the temple priesthood and many of the rich and affluent Jews. Those who pursed war were known as the zealots. Many of these were fanatics that believed God had chosen them to deliver Israel.

Roman corruption and abuses led to open rebellion in 66 A.D., but when the Jews stopped the twice, daily sacrifices for Caesar in the Temple, this was considered an act of war. This caused hostilities to increase dramatically. Menahem, a messiah figure, gained early success against the Romans killing many of them. He entered Jerusalem dressed as a king, seized the temple complex, and had the High Priest put to death. Menahem’s reign did not last long however. The people rose up against him and tortured him to death.

It fell to the Roman Cestius to put down the revolt. He marched against Jerusalem with about 30,000 men. However, when victory was within his grasp, he mysteriously retreated. The Jews pursed the retreating Romans and killed many of them. This was taken to be a sign that God was indeed fighting against Rome.

In A.D. 67 Nero appointed Vespasian to bring Roman order back to Israel. He began a murderous campaign in the Galilee region. Vespasian was the epitome of Roman cruelty and brute force. He killed every male in several cities, took the women and children into slavery, and then marched on Jerusalem.

Escaping the wrath of Vespasian was a man named John Gischala. Upon entering Jerusalem, instead of speaking of Roman victories, he spoke of their weakness. He roused the zealots into a terrible battle with those who wanted peace. A battle on the steps of the temple ensued where 8,500 men perished. Finally, John killed the High Priest and appointed a buffoon in his place. Once in control of the temple this zealot brutalized the city killing tens of thousands who were thought to support Rome.

In A.D. 68 Nero died. What followed was Roman civil war. Vespasian was forced to call off his attack. By A.D. 69 Vespasian sat on the throne as Roman Emperor. He turned Roman might to unfinished business with the Jews. Titus, the emperor’s son, was appointed to deal with Israel. He followed in his father’s brutal footsteps.

By this time insanity reigned in Jerusalem. Zealot groups with would be Messiahs fought each other. And those who wanted peace joined in. Josephus said that blood stood in lakes in the holy courts themselves. At one point in an effort to burn each other out two zealot groups set on fire the grain reserves for the city. These could have sustained the Jews for years against a siege. In the mean time, Titus began his barbarous march on Jerusalem. The final siege began.

Even with huge siege engines and towers, the Romans had little success breaching the three walls of Jerusalem. The Jews mocked the Roman soldiers, which only increased Titus’ cruelty. The Romans stripped all wood for a eleven mile radius around the city and still ran out of wood for crosses to crucify the rebels.

Finally, Titus turned hunger into his most formidable weapon. He had a siege dike dug around the entire city. All supplies were completely cut off. Starvation and madness filled the city. Bodies of the dead filled the streets. Zealot bands roamed the streets killing whole families for even a morsel of food. The stench became unbearable. Josephus wrote that the Jews themselves did far more to destroy Jerusalem than the Romans ever did.

At last Titus gained access to the city. As he approached the temple, a battle broke out that was so fierce as to be inhuman. Still, Titus gave orders to spare the temple. However, in the ensuing madness the temple was set ablaze. Then the Roman general brought the Roman standard and offered sacrifices as the ultimate defilement. In an effort to salvage the gold that lined much of the temple, the Romans tore apart the structure leaving not one stone left on top of another.

Titus ordered Jerusalem to be destroyed and burned. Countless thousands met death at the end of a Roman sword. The rest were taken into slavery or killed later for sport. Josephus writes that after all was done, it was hard to believe that anyone ever inhabited the city. It is estimated that over a million Jews died in this conflict. This was the end of Biblical Judaism and the Old Covenant world.

A small note about Herod‚s temple, taking and utterly destroying Herod‚s temple was no small feat. The temple took up as much at 25% of the city of Jerusalem. It was 1500 feet north to south and covered over 35 acres. The buildings were twice the height of those in Solomon‚s temple. Its courtyards were paved in marble, and many of the walls were overlaid in solid gold. At times there were at many as 20,000 priests serving the temple. You could imagine the disciple’s thoughts when Jesus said that this entire structure would be destroyed.

HisWordIsMySword said:

Every place that speaks of one asleep in Christ is referring to those who's bodies are asleep, but their souls are with Christ.

For a believer when he dies does exactly as it that which Jesus spoke of.

He who believes in me shall never die.
He who believes in me, though he be dead, yet shall he live.

So all who accept Christ will never die in their souls. In other words, when the soul is called of God and leaves the body, the soul will not go to that place known as death and hell, but will go to be with Jesus.

So when Jesus says " He who believes in me will never die, " he is referring to the soul, not the physical body. For we must all face physical death.

When Jesus says " He who believes in me, though he be dead, yet shall he live," he is referring to even though one must die physically, his soul will continue to live for those who believe.

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We preterist believe we don't have to physically die in order to be resurrected. Resurrection is a event that takes place in this life according to Jesus. He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into Judgment; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24)

Jesus did not say we had to die in order to have everlasting life, or resurrection. Everlasting life and resurrection according to the Bible are synonymous.

And since we already have everlasting life, or resurrection in this life we don't need a physical body that was for this life in this world. It is important to understand why Scripture say Jesus was physically resurrected.

There was a problem you see. The devil, and those who belonged to him, had a plan to conceal the truth that Christ had rose from the dead.

The chief priests and the Pharisees had gone to Pilate and had asked for guards to be placed around the tomb of Jesus, for they remembered that our Lord had said He would rise again after three days.

Pilate granted their request, and gave them guards (four men who watched for three hours, then relieved by four men for the next three hours, etc., for the next three days). They also put a seal on the stone. A seal consisted of placing a cord across the stone and securing the ends with clay stamped with an official seal of Rom. If the seal was broken it would be readily apparent.

The problem was that in spite of all these precautions they now had an empty tomb and no explanation except the truth of the resurrection. WHAT TO DO?

The watch reported to the chief priests what had happened. It was at this juncture that the devil, used his children to try to destroy faith in the resurrection of Jesus Christ. When they had assembled with the elders and taken counsel, they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers, saying, "Tell them, ‘His disciples came at night and stole Him away while we slept.' And if this comes to the governor's ears, we will appease him and make you secure." So they took the money and did as they were instructed' and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day (Matthew 28:12-15).

The Lord Jesus continued to appear and teach His followers over the next forty days the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. He gave them, many convincing proofs that He was indeed alive, Then He said to Thomas,"Reach here your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into my side; and be not unbelieving, but believing."v. 28 Thomas answered and said to Him,"MY LORD AND MY GOD. (John 20::27-28) It is very important to see here Thomas did not believe until he saw the proof Jesus was indeed alive.
When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning of the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulcher at the rising of the sun.

And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulcher? And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great. And entering into the sepulcher, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted. And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: You seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.

But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goes before you into Galilee: there shall you see him, as he said unto you. And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulcher; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.

Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, "believed not" (Mark 16:1-11) Notice they also did not believe.

After that Jesus appeared in another form unto two others, as they walked, and went into the country. And they went and told it unto the residue and "they neither believed they them" (Mark 16:12-13) The Jewish believers struggled with a physical resurrection of Jesus so how could they understand (a resurrection of Jesus in the unseen ream)?

How could the Jews, or we, "see" or "comprehend" what God accomplished in the spiritual ream, if Jesus did not REAPPEAR and show Himself in a physical form in the physical ream?

Remember Matthew said, there was a reported among the Jews that the disciples came at night and stole the body of Jesus away while the guards slept.

How could God have shown us the resurrection of His Son without the physical aspect?

Jesus is the only person in (all the Bible who's body was promised) not to see corruption. For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Psa 16:10)

Everything Jesus did in His earthly ministry was a type, or shadow, of a greater spiritual truth. He fed five-thousand people because He is the Bread of Life. He calmed the stormy sea because He is the Prince of Peace. He forgave sin because He is the Savior of the world.

He raised the dead and showed with his own resurrection that He is the Resurrection and the Life. The Old Testament always displays in the material world the greater truth of the spiritual world.

Jesus' "death and resurrection" in the physical was a picture of our death and resurrection in the spiritual ream. Paul makes this point very clear.

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Romans 6:4 The coming life was of the same nature as the death; but the death was not physical, therefore the coming life was not physical.

We are NOT saying that Jesus was not resurrected in a physically body. We are saying we don't need a physically body for proof unto the world like Jesus did. We don't need a physically body that was made for this physically world. We have a body made for the spiritual ream.

Scripture makes this clear. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. (Ecc 12:7)

I hope this helps

You still didn't answer my question.

Even back in the past, the countries mentioned in prophecies had non-prophetic reasons for their actions.

Russia isn't going to be all "WELL BOYS LOOKS LIKE WE GOTTA START THE END TIMES, LET'S ROLL!", they're going to start attacking Israel for some legitimate reason.

The silence of the end-times movement when asked that question speaks volumes about the validity and likelihood of their predictions.

invisible trousers said:

You still didn't answer my question.

Even back in the past, the countries mentioned in prophecies had non-prophetic reasons for their actions.

Russia isn't going to be all "WELL BOYS LOOKS LIKE WE GOTTA START THE END TIMES, LET'S ROLL!", they're going to start attacking Israel for some legitimate reason.

The silence of the end-times movement when asked that question speaks volumes about the validity and likelihood of their predictions.

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That is what Hal Lindsay said would happen in the 1980s. He had to revise his dates. Maybe he should throw out the whole thing and start over.

invisible trousers said:

You still didn't answer my question.

Even back in the past, the countries mentioned in prophecies had non-prophetic reasons for their actions.

Russia isn't going to be all "WELL BOYS LOOKS LIKE WE GOTTA START THE END TIMES, LET'S ROLL!", they're going to start attacking Israel for some legitimate reason.

The silence of the end-times movement when asked that question speaks volumes about the validity and likelihood of their predictions.

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Well, far be it from me to stop someone from doing God's will.

Better hurry up and convert more unbelieving Jews to Christ before that happens.

Luke 21:23 `And woe to those with child, and to those giving suck, in those days; for there shall be great distress on the Land, and wrath on this People; [Daniel 12]

Reve 17:16 and the ten horns [kings] that thou didst see upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and shall burn her in fire, 17 for God did give into their hearts to do its mind,

invisible trousers said:

You still didn't answer my question.

Even back in the past, the countries mentioned in prophecies had non-prophetic reasons for their actions.

Russia isn't going to be all "WELL BOYS LOOKS LIKE WE GOTTA START THE END TIMES, LET'S ROLL!", they're going to start attacking Israel for some legitimate reason.

The silence of the end-times movement when asked that question speaks volumes about the validity and likelihood of their predictions.

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Question ? what Question, I'm I missing something here or jsy failing to read something inbetween the lines.