From the Heart: Events in my own life and how they lead me to my conclusions

gwdboi · Apr 2, 2007

With this post I would like to present parts of my own personal testimony. This is not really meant for a debate, just some background information about myself to help others understand why I hold the views I hold.

I accepted Christ into my life when I was about seven years old, and my life was never the same after that. At about age 12 I started noticing some weird feelings I was having; instead of becoming attracted to girls (like my other peers) I was becoming attracted to boys. Having grown up in a Southern Baptist church I felt (at the time) that these feelings I was having were evil and that with enough discipline I (with the help of God) could will them away. I prayed and prayed, but nothing changed. By about age 16 I became more determined to be "normal." I was so disgusted at myself for my homoerotic feelings that I sank into a deep depression, developed anorexia, and contemplated suicide daily. I tried to induce heteroerotic responses within myself by looking up straight inappropriate content (I justified it by saying that I was trying to "cure" myself") Nothing changed. I developed a crush on a boy in my class and became real good friends with him (he was also a member of my church). When one night I found out that he wasn't gay I reached the apex of my depression and tried to slit my wrists, my friend talked me out of it. I decided that if I wasn't going to slit my wrists that I would just starve to death. I was angry with God for making me this way and not changing me, I wanted to be in a hospital, dying so that He could see what He had done to me. When I had lost 25% of my total body weight (50 lbs) within two months my mom took me to the doctor. The doctor then referred me to a wonderful therapist. Upon first meeting her I came out to her and told her that I was gay and that I didn't know how do deal with it considering I am a Christian and that the Bible is against homosexuality. She stopped me in my tracks and uttered the words that would change my life forever, "You're gay, there's nothing you can do about it, God loves you, he made you gay, and he doesn't care if you're gay or straight." That day forward I was given a new confidence. I eased out of my eating disorder and my depression was lifted; I had never felt so wonderful in my entire life. I was given the gift of life, the ability to be myself. Through my own experience I can see that God does in fact make us either gay or not, we have no control over it. The only thing we can decide is who to tell. I am proud to say that I'm a gay Christian, and God loves me just as I am. Whosoever will come may come.

goldenviolet · Apr 2, 2007

hi, i'm dee

... i wondered if i may ask you questions, or is this not ok on a post because of the direction you are wanting your thread to go? talking about these things on open forum is mighty brave of you in my book. lol... usually this much intimacy is located in more the forums of prayer and recovery.

gwdboi · Apr 2, 2007

goldenviolet said:
hi, i'm dee ... i wondered if i may ask you questions, or is this not ok on a post because of the direction you are wanting your thread to go? talking about these things on open forum is mighty brave of you in my book. lol... usually this much intimacy is located in more the forums of prayer and recovery.

I'm always open to questions, I will try to answer them to the best of my ability.

goldenviolet · Apr 3, 2007

hello again! i've been so busy. i re-read your post. i really don't remember what questions i had.

i do wonder about the scriptures against laying with the same sex.

Romans 1:27 (NKJV)
Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

i have met people who are 'gay' but not 'homosexual'...
their deffinition is: gay - attracked to the same sex;
and homosexual - sexually active with the same sex.

i'm hearing more and more that same sex marriages are being excepted in some churches. i guess it's just confusing to me because of the scriptures i know indicating that this is wrong. some people interpretate them differently, but not the scripture i posted.

i know we are all sinners. equal in everything we commit against scripture. i do not want to attack who you are either :hug:

... i just don't understand the conclusion to being gay is homosexuality. not every christian is good at everything, I.E. relationships, but this circumstance does not give us permission to conclude with dishonoring scripture.

sin is sin. doesn't sin seprate from the Lord? in my daily walk, when i sin, i struggle emotionally with all sorts of thoughts and have such a miserable time focusing on getting back on track. i really have to be obediant in everything possible to stay out of trouble.

you are a beautiful child of God. i respect you and admire that you are sharing your story. please be pacient with me, i'm not wanting to offend you, or hinder you from being who you are.

thank you for allowing this dialog, love dee

Brieuse · Apr 4, 2007

goldenviolet said:
hello again! i've been so busy. i re-read your post. i really don't remember what questions i had.

i do wonder about the scriptures against laying with the same sex.

Romans 1:27 (NKJV)
Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

i have met people who are 'gay' but not 'homosexual'...
their deffinition is: gay - attracked to the same sex;
and homosexual - sexually active with the same sex.

i'm hearing more and more that same sex marriages are being excepted in some churches. i guess it's just confusing to me because of the scriptures i know indicating that this is wrong. some people interpretate them differently, but not the scripture i posted.

i know we are all sinners. equal in everything we commit against scripture. i do not want to attack who you are either ... i just don't understand the conclusion to being gay is homosexuality. not every christian is good at everything, I.E. relationships, but this circumstance does not give us permission to conclude with dishonoring scripture.

sin is sin. doesn't sin seprate from the Lord? in my daily walk, when i sin, i struggle emotionally with all sorts of thoughts and have such a miserable time focusing on getting back on track. i really have to be obediant in everything possible to stay out of trouble.

you are a beautiful child of God. i respect you and admire that you are sharing your story. please be pacient with me, i'm not wanting to offend you, or hinder you from being who you are.

thank you for allowing this dialog, love dee

Hi Dee,

Things can be very confusing!

I struggled with accepting who I was for over 20 years, like you I read the same scriptures.

I became a Christian at a very young age, I don't remember a born-again experience, that's how long ago it was. When I was 14, I made an "official" commitment with God, prayed the sinners prayer just in case etc. When I was 16 I had the most incredible experience with God. I would looked forward to going to church just to praise and worship Him. I started up youth groups, and holiday groups. I would spend 6 days of the week in church activities.

Homosexuals struggle enough as it is with social homophobia. It's worse for us Christian Homosexuals, because we are lead to believe that we've only got a second rate salvation.

The first stage is denial. That stage isn't too bad because you believe that won't last too long. Unfortunately when two years becomes three years, you hit the second stage.

The second stage is depression. This is when you believe God hasn't got a plan for you. You try everything. You try have the demons prayed out of you. You doubt your salvation, so you do the alter call everytime. You have everyone lay hands on you in prayer. At this stage you're still homophobic yourself. You preach against homosexuality because it is a sin as written in the Bible.

The third stage I like to call reperative therapy. This is when you start forcing yourself to lust at women to try to get sexually aroused. You try to change your habits so that you won't get "tempted". At this point though, you seperate yourself from other males so that evil thoughts don't enter your mind. This leaves you without many friends. You fight with God. At night you literally scream at him asking/demanding a cure.

The fourth stage is the nasty one. You live a life of secrecy. You get addicted to inappropriate content. You most probably become an alcoholic because you drink to fight the loneliness. I call this the stage of chastity. Most Christian homosexuals will remain in this stage. At this point you're still homophobic. You live a double life, at night you're on inappropriate content sites trying to satisfy the sexual needs during the day you're working on being a typical guy. Every now and again you date a female to stop questions from being asked.

The last stage is coming out of the closet. This is the stage where you lose a lot of friends. You gain many new friends though. You are now no longer homophobic, well you can't be. You start looking for answers. You now start to rebuild yourself, to sort out the inappropriate contentography and alcohol issues. You find that you can be very accepting of other sinners, not necessarily Homosexuals, in their walk of life.

gwdboi · Apr 4, 2007

goldenviolet said:
hello again! i've been so busy. i re-read your post. i really don't remember what questions i had.

i do wonder about the scriptures against laying with the same sex.

Romans 1:27 (NKJV)
Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

The thing about this passage, and with any of the NT passages for that matter, is the ancient def. of homosexuality. Today, the psychological def. of homosexuality is anyone who is emotionally and sexually attracted to someone of the same sex. I believe that reading the passages that lead up to verse 27 are key in understanding verse 27. The preceding verses talk about idolatry, (serving and revering the creature more than the creator). I think that it is safe to say that this verse does not condemn our present view of homosexuality but condemns lust in general; being more attracted to the creatures God created (humans, both male and female) rather than being "attracted" to God. Certainly both homosexuals and heterosexuals are capable of lust but lust is not love. I believe that this passage does not refer to loving, committed, homosexual relationships.

i have met people who are 'gay' but not 'homosexual'...
their deffinition is: gay - attracked to the same sex;
and homosexual - sexually active with the same sex.

Let me point out also that many people who are of a homosexual orientation yet try to deny their orientation tend to suffer major psychological affectedness.

i'm hearing more and more that same sex marriages are being excepted in some churches. i guess it's just confusing to me because of the scriptures i know indicating that this is wrong. some people interpretate them differently, but not the scripture i posted.

i know we are all sinners. equal in everything we commit against scripture. i do not want to attack who you are either ... i just don't understand the conclusion to being gay is homosexuality. not every christian is good at everything, I.E. relationships, but this circumstance does not give us permission to conclude with dishonoring scripture.

sin is sin. doesn't sin seprate from the Lord? in my daily walk, when i sin, i struggle emotionally with all sorts of thoughts and have such a miserable time focusing on getting back on track. i really have to be obediant in everything possible to stay out of trouble.

you are a beautiful child of God. i respect you and admire that you are sharing your story. please be pacient with me, i'm not wanting to offend you, or hinder you from being who you are.

thank you for allowing this dialog, love dee

I must say, you are truly the sweetest person I've ever had the pleasure of speaking with on this issue. Most of the "regulars" in this forum seek to attack homosexuals yet you approach me with love and respect and I pray God blesses you many times over. This fact also gives me the opportunity to be very honest with you and speak from my heart. I used to hold many of the orthodox opinions of homosexuality as truth until I came out. When I came out, I could not reconcile the scriptures to my sexual orientation and thusly I abandoned God because I felt that He had abandoned me. Later on I discovered that harmony could exist between God and my sexual orientation and it was then that I truly felt the peace of God in my life.
An interesting note is the origin of the current western opinion on homosexuality. A look at other cultures shows that most cultures affirm or even promote homosexual behavior. So why doesn't the Church? The early church derived most of their doctrines about sex from the Greek stoics (ironic eh). The stoics essentially believed that pleasure was evil and should be avoided. This was the backbone for the early church's view on sex. Anything that was considered abnormal was called sodomy. Here were some of the old stipulations that we would consider completely insane today:

1. Sex was for procreation only, not pleasure; to experience pleasure from sex is carnal sodomy

2. Any form of contraception was banned, since procreation was hindered and thusly the only purpose of contraceptive sex was pleasure which was evil

3. The only approved sexual position was the missionary position, since it was believed that all other positions hindered conception

4. [SIZE=-1]Coitus interruptus was sodomy

5. Any form of sexual deviation was sodomy (including fetishes) since this would have been having sex for the sake of pleasure

Nowadays we can see why taking pleasure in sex is okay, it's God's gift to commitment. I hope that all this provides answers and maybe even more questions. :hug:

[/SIZE]

goldenviolet · Apr 4, 2007

Brieuse, hello!
i can relate to having brothers pray for demons to get out of you. i'm mentally ill, and i've had my share of what you descibe in this area. very confusing... like someone trying to pray for you to grow an arm you were born without at birth. as a child, and even up to a young adult i struggled with my own exceptance of myself as well as how i was percieved. (doesn't help much when you are paranoid :sorry:

) ...

you have descibed very well what is the genral exsperiance of people who feel this way. my father ended up getting a sex change. this pretty much discibes what he told me. (unfortunately he took his own life).

gwdboi, :hug:

, i'm very relieved you feel respected and treated with love. we are all God's children, and love is how we exspress this to eachother. :groupray:

alot of what you write about meanings, i'm having a difficult time grasping. this is because i have not studyied these things. i, in my mind, take the bible from begining to end on what i've read. i have noted that some versions of the bible come across as sounding different when studying specific scriptures. but other than reading it straight forward, i choose to read mostly the New King James Version. i'm probly babbling

. at any rate i studying scripture, and love to do so.

did you take courses? are you in school? or how have you learned to research?

thank you again for your dialog :hug:

i'm finding this thread to be the nicest i've seen in a debate forum. lol.
*knocks on wood*... *prays for continuance of manners* lol. *crosses fingers and toes*, love dee

ReformedChapin · Apr 4, 2007

I hope this doesn't make me sound like a bunshole. I'm really not trying to be one, but if this isn't debetable then what's the point of posting it here? Shouldn't it be somewhere else? I mean we can't sit here and debate a subjective experience.

UberLutheran · Apr 4, 2007

NewGuy101 said:
I hope this doesn't make me sound like a bunshole. I'm really not trying to be one, but if this isn't debetable then what's the point of posting it here? Shouldn't it be somewhere else? I mean we can't sit here and debate a subjective experience.

Why not?

I've posted fairly personal stuff about myself and had people respond that I was a degenerate sinner, or a reprobate, or going to Hell for any number of reasons, or that I deserved to be diabetic because of my "sinful lifestyle" and that they hoped I lived a long life sticking myself with needles three times a day.

That, of course, is the stuff which is printable. A lot of the stuff I've received -- is not.

I mean -- there has to be some reason why I tend to have a jaundiced, peevish attitude towards Christian conservatives (at least, until they can prove to me that they're "safe").

ReformedChapin · Apr 4, 2007

UberLutheran said:
Why not?

I've posted fairly personal stuff about myself and had people respond that I was a degenerate sinner, or a reprobate, or going to Hell for any number of reasons, or that I deserved to be diabetic because of my "sinful lifestyle" and that they hoped I lived a long life sticking myself with needles three times a day.

That, of course, is the stuff which is printable. A lot of the stuff I've received -- is not.

I mean -- there has to be some reason why I tend to have a jaundiced, peevish attitude towards Christian conservatives (at least, until they can prove to me that they're "safe").

Maybe it's the fact that subjective experiences are none debateble? Not to mention all the unfortunate events that happened to you don't belong in this forum?

UberLutheran · Apr 4, 2007

NewGuy101 said:
Maybe it's the fact that subjective experiences are none debateble? Not to mention all the unfortunate events that happened to you don't belong in this forum?

So that conservative Christians can use Scripture as a weapon to bludgeon people -- people who happen to be actual flesh-and-blood human beings, with feelings and emotions and life experiences -- and not have to worry about the fact that they might actually be hurting someone and even driving them away from Christ and Christianity?

I can show you an entire forum full of people who have been driven away from Christianity by Christians who claimed to be "loving the sinner and hating the sin" (whatever the sin happened to be) -- and you want to know something? They absolutely hate us.

Sorry, NewGuy -- human beings, by virtue of the fact that they are actual, walking, talking, emotiong human beings -- have subjective life experiences and while it may make some people feel good about themselves to be able to use Scripture to damn others to Hell, the result is that those who have been "shown the door" and told they're not welcome within Christianity often leave for good -- and don't look back.

And mind you -- we WILL be judged for that.

ReformedChapin · Apr 4, 2007

UberLutheran said:
So that conservative Christians can use Scripture as a weapon to bludgeon people -- people who happen to be actual flesh-and-blood human beings, with feelings and emotions and life experiences -- and not have to worry about the fact that they might actually be hurting someone and even driving them away from Christ and Christianity?

I don't see where I mentioned this or how it's even relavent to what I said.

UberLutheran said:
I can show you an entire forum full of people who have been driven away from Christianity by Christians who claimed to be "loving the sinner and hating the sin" (whatever the sin happened to be) -- and you want to know something? They absolutely hate us.

People whine about Christians hating them all the time. I haven't seen it. Every conservative I know personaly loves homosexuals like any other sinner.

UberLutheran said:
Sorry, NewGuy -- human beings, by virtue of the fact that they are actual, walking, talking, emotiong human beings -- have subjective life experiences and while it may make some people feel good about themselves to be able to use Scripture to damn others to Hell, the result is that those who have been "shown the door" and told they're not welcome within Christianity often leave for good -- and don't look back.

And mind you -- we WILL be judged for that.

Sorry, but that doesn't matter in a debate forum. What matters is the evidence, I suggest you stick to it. That's why so many "conservatives" don't even bother listening to you because all you do is whine about how bad we are.

UberLutheran · Apr 4, 2007

NewGuy101 said:
That's why so many "conservatives" don't even bother listening to you because all you do is whine about how much bunsholes we are.

If the shoe fits...

gwdboi · Apr 5, 2007

NewGuy101 said:
I hope this doesn't make me sound like a bunshole. I'm really not trying to be one, but if this isn't debetable then what's the point of posting it here? Shouldn't it be somewhere else? I mean we can't sit here and debate a subjective experience.

The point my blind friend is to show people a part of myself that they do not know to assist them in the comprehension of the homosexual psychology. These are my own experiences and there is really no debating them. They happened and that's about it.

gwdboi · Apr 5, 2007

NewGuy101 said:
People whine about Christians hating them all the time. I haven't seen it. Every conservative I know personaly loves homosexuals like any other sinner.
Sorry, but that doesn't matter in a debate forum. What matters is the evidence, I suggest you stick to it. That's why so many "conservatives" don't even bother listening to you because all you do is whine about how much bunsholes we are.

You've got to be kidding!

Whining?? You think we just whine about everything, want evidence, evidence of the persecution that we as GLBT persons have endeared.

Here's your evidence:

Many of us (GLBT persons) were killed because of whom they loved (Matthew Shepard). Daily we are discriminated against (esp. in my region) my boyfriend and I cannot walk out in public without getting stares, rude comments etc. Most of these anti-homosexual views are RELIGION BASED. So, yeah, we have the right to whine.

Myriah · Apr 6, 2007

I thought it was very brave of you to write from your heart like that, and I am really glad you are here, alive!

I am beginning to see some "different" things in the Romans passage. It definitely seems to me that passage is speaking of some type of pagan ritual orgy sex because the way it's worded is like ALL the men and women engaged in this, and that is not very likely that all men and women would suddenly become homosexual orientated. That is absolutely illogical.

I am beginning to believe that Paul witnessed some type of ancient orgy in the ancient GrecoRoman world, and that is what he is writing about because even murderers are NOT listed in that passage? And that is quite strange. I mean murderers can enter the Kingdom of God? That doesn't make sense either.

I also watched a program on The History Channel called -- "The History of Sex", which went back to before Christ and discussed all types of "beliefs" about sex throughout Christianity as well. And there are art works and such of orgies such as what is described in the Romans passage which verify proof of those types of ancient pagan orgies.

(p.s. Some of the History Channel's video's can be purchased. I'm not sure if The History of Sex is available yet, but it definitely was worth watching and gave a lot of insight into ancient pagan sex, much as described in the Romans and Corinthians passages. It was rated PG14.)

ReformedChapin · Apr 6, 2007

Myriah said:
I thought it was very brave of you to write from your heart like that, and I am really glad you are here, alive!

I am beginning to see some "different" things in the Romans passage. It definitely seems to me that passage is speaking of some type of pagan ritual orgy sex because the way it's worded is like ALL the men and women engaged in this, and that is not very likely that all men and women would suddenly become homosexual orientated. That is absolutely illogical.

I am beginning to believe that Paul witnessed some type of ancient orgy in the ancient GrecoRoman world, and that is what he is writing about because even murderers are NOT listed in that passage? And that is quite strange. I mean murderers can enter the Kingdom of God? That doesn't make sense either.

I also watched a program on The History Channel called -- "The History of Sex", which went back to before Christ and discussed all types of "beliefs" about sex throughout Christianity as well. And there are art works and such of orgies such as what is described in the Romans passage which verify proof of those types of ancient pagan orgies.

(p.s. Some of the History Channel's video's can be purchased. I'm not sure if The History of Sex is available yet, but it definitely was worth watching and gave a lot of insight into ancient pagan sex, much as described in the Romans and Corinthians passages. It was rated PG14.)

Oh yeah becuase the history channel doesn't have a liberal biased. They are the worse source of information when it comes to biblical history.

Onlythingavailable · Apr 7, 2007

I hope you don't mind if I use this thread to post my personal experiences.

I, too, have homosexual feelings. I have wondered "where" they came from, the earliest memories I have are from when I was 6 or 7, but at that time you don't really have a sexuality so who knows. I don't know if you are created this way or if it's a product of your environment/upbringing, but I'm not sure if it matters. I repressed the feelings and was able to ignore it until I was about 17. Then for some reason I developed some sort of social anxiety tied to the homosexual feelings which made it impossible for me to be around people (I basically became convinced that looking at others equaled sexual interest). I still suffer from this today, but in the "solitude" that the anxiety created, I have drawn closer to God, much closer than I was before this happened.

I've read several threads on this forum, along with the common arguments. I'm not convinced that the cultural context or the original Greek words mean that scripture has been misinterpreted. I still believe homosexual acts and thoughts are a sin, but as with a lot of things, it is what you do with them that matters. If you act on them, you sin, but the mere existence of the "orientation" doesn't mean you can't be saved. That's what I believe, based on my personal experience of never having "chosen" to have these feelings.

A lot of the pro arguments seem to be based on the fact that it isn't a choice. It's true that having homosexual feelings isn't a picnic, and when you encounter people who don't understand and write you off as a terrible wrongdoer, it does hurt, but I still do not think existence is justification. Everyone has their struggles, their fleshly desires to combat.

I am also sexually attracted to women, which I suppose means I can't fully identify with those who feel nothing for women. I'm sad and feel for those who go through this struggle, all the hurt and pain. I do not believe anything else but the fall of man and satan can be blamed for this, though, nor do I believe that giving in is the right way. The guilt, depression and hiding isn't a result of the word of God, but of the prejudices and lack of understanding of the majority of people. In Hebrews it is said that Jesus knows all our struggles. Doesn't that mean he knows this one as well?

gwdboi · Apr 8, 2007

Myriah said:
I thought it was very brave of you to write from your heart like that, and I am really glad you are here, alive!

I am beginning to see some "different" things in the Romans passage. It definitely seems to me that passage is speaking of some type of pagan ritual orgy sex because the way it's worded is like ALL the men and women engaged in this, and that is not very likely that all men and women would suddenly become homosexual orientated. That is absolutely illogical.

I am beginning to believe that Paul witnessed some type of ancient orgy in the ancient GrecoRoman world, and that is what he is writing about because even murderers are NOT listed in that passage? And that is quite strange. I mean murderers can enter the Kingdom of God? That doesn't make sense either.

I also watched a program on The History Channel called -- "The History of Sex", which went back to before Christ and discussed all types of "beliefs" about sex throughout Christianity as well. And there are art works and such of orgies such as what is described in the Romans passage which verify proof of those types of ancient pagan orgies.

(p.s. Some of the History Channel's video's can be purchased. I'm not sure if The History of Sex is available yet, but it definitely was worth watching and gave a lot of insight into ancient pagan sex, much as described in the Romans and Corinthians passages. It was rated PG14.)

That's quite a theory and sounds fairly logical, I'll look into it myself as well. Thank you for the encouragement also.

Irenaeus · Apr 10, 2007

Closed for staff review.

From the Heart: Events in my own life and how they lead me to my conclusions

Regular Member

Holy is the Lord God Almighty

Regular Member

Holy is the Lord God Almighty

Veteran

Regular Member

Holy is the Lord God Almighty

Chapin = Guatemalan

Well-Known Member

Chapin = Guatemalan

Well-Known Member

Chapin = Guatemalan

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

I love you, O Lord, my strength (Ps 18)

Chapin = Guatemalan

Senior Veteran

Regular Member

Sub tuum praesidium confugimus!

Similar threads