Queston

God expects us to use our faculties of intelligence, our knowledge, understanding and judgment, and to do conscientiously what our faith points us to do. God does not place us under the conscience of some other human in such matters. We must each make our own decision in harmony with conscience—conscience molded by God’s Word. We must also take the consequences of our own decisions, not expect someone else to make the decision and bear that responsibility for us.

It would therefore be wrong in such matters to try to extract from someone else some rule or regulation that ‘draws the line’ on matters. Where God’s Word does not itself ‘draw the line,’ no human has the right to add to that Word by doing so. God in his wisdom allows us to show what we are in the “secret person of the heart,” and the decisions we make in such personal cases may reveal this. True, we may err at times without wrong motive, and God, who reads our hearts, can discern this.

But whatever our decisions, and even though these are made with a clear conscience, we must always realize that, in the final analysis, God will be the One to make manifest the rightness or wrongness of our course and that in his own due time and way. Recognizing this, the apostle Paul wrote: “For I am not conscious of anything against myself. Yet by this I am not proved righteous, but he that examines me is Jehovah. Hence do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring the secret things of darkness to light and make the counsels of the hearts manifest, and then each one will have his praise come to him from God.” 1 Cor. 4:3-5.

The apostles did not hesitate to express what should be done with regard to judging matters. When Paul encountered a situation involving wrongdoing that had gone uncorrected, he advised by letter what he would have done if personally present, firmly directing those responsible at Corinth to “remove the wicked man” from among them. (1 Cor. 5:13)

At 1 Corinthians 5:3-5 we read: “I for one, although absent in body but present in spirit, have certainly judged already, as if I were present, the man who has worked in such a way as this, that in the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are gathered together, also my spirit with the power of our Lord Jesus, you hand such a man over to Satan.”

In this case, through Paul’s letter, the Corinthian Christians knew Paul’s spirit or attitude regarding the allowance of corrupting influence in the congregation. So when they met to consider this matter, Paul’s spirit or forceful attitude was right there, as if a person. Once a decision was made that agreed with the spirit Paul showed, Christians at Corinth could in effect say, ‘We ourselves and Paul’s spirit have decided to expel the unrepentant man.’

Paul indeed passed judgement on the man, finding him guilty of a breach demanding ex-communication.

Mat 7:1-5

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

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"Judge not lest you be judged" takes on a slightly different aspect when it is read in its entire context. Does it apply with equal force to one who has indeed removed the beam from his own eye? - And having done so, what is made possible? "and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

But how can this interpretation be shown to be valid?

John 7:24

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

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Originally posted by Thunderchild
Paul indeed passed judgement on the man, finding him guilty of a breach demanding ex-communication.

Mat 7:1-5 "Judge not lest you be judged" takes on a slightly different aspect when it is read in its entire context. Does it apply with equal force to one who has indeed removed the beam from his own eye? - And having done so, what is made possible? "and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

But how can this interpretation be shown to be valid?

John 7:24

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When Paul passed judgment on the individual in the Corinth congregation he did so under clear guidlines set out in God's word.  Fornication, adultery, stealing, liying and so forth.  Unrepentant practicers of such things were to be removed.  It was a Judicial matter for which witnesses would have been required.  Since these requirments and moral standards were in fact God's, then there is no beam involved, because God is the Judge, it is not a personal judgment as is the context of jesus words not to judge one another.

Originally posted by ChristianPilot
Ok, I see what you're saying. He wanted the Corinthian Christians to know what his will was (that, in his terms, he's already judged the man), so he wrote them about this unrepentant man. The Corinthian Christians can say "Ok, we know Paul's will".

I was thinking that when Paul said "And I have already passed judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present." he was judging the person, not the situation.

Do I understand what you're trying to say?

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Hellow Christianpilot.

Both.

Paul was saying that if he was heading the judicial meeting on the matter of the fornicator, whith the evidence that was before him his decision would be to romove the wicked man.  Note: Paul would have had to have evidence of more than one witness and evidence of his unrepentant attitude, for example, continuing in his bad course.  Because the standards that judge this man are God's, though paul said "I have judged" in effect God had judged through Paul.

I think there is also an element of perspective to be added.

We are not to pass judgement ahead of time - ie in eternal terms, condemning someone who has sinned against us (or others) to eternal damnation. This is God's prerogative, who alone knows the thoughts and intents of a person's heart.

However, within the Church, there is a need for godly discipline. Sin must be recognised as such, and those who are proven to be 'in sin' are to be repremanded, and, if unrepentant, disciplined. Scripture sets out guidelines for how this is to be done.) Thus it is right to 'pass judgement' on people and situations (you are guilty of such and such a sin, and, until you repent, this will be your 'punishment') - but always with a view to bringing them to repentance (as we see in Paul's dealings with the promiscuous Corinthian), never writing them off as beyond forgiveness and restoration. (Note that Paul never questioned the man's salvation, only his conduct, and advocated that he be handed over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, in order that his soul might be saved.)

Anthony

Your very welcome