Opinons:

I have no problem with tougher disipline in the schools. As long as they keep corporal punishment out of the equation.

In a institution with the atmosphere of a prison camp, enacting "tougher" discipline is the worst possible step an administrator could take. Most problems that arise in my school stem from the nonsensical rules and idiotic enforcement of the same; that, combined with the natural resentment resulting from forcable containment.

Originally posted by Job_38
Forgive me for asking, by corporal punishment, do you mean something along the lines of swats?

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Swats, smacks, paddling, beating, caning ect ect...not allowed. I don't physically abuse my children so I'll be damned if I'll allow a stranger to lay a hand on them.
Remember this is just my humble opinion.
But seriously, just from having raised three children I KNOW that spanking ect is not necessary.

Job: If they were truly intelligent rules, increased discipline would not be necessary. In any case, discipline is too nebulous a word. However, as I get the impression you are attempting to eke out support for corporal punishment, I'll just echo Annabel in the future tense. Abuse is not needed or appropriate. Ever.

I think it's important to note that forcing socialization will result in a certain amount of rebellion regardless, and that corporal punishment is as likely to make martyrs as it is good citizens. To hear my parents discuss their schooling in the late 50's/early 60's I have to say that the more liberal 80's seemed much "better", but then people do exaggerate their childhoods to a degree.

Speaking only for myself and my son, I have had very, very good results with clear, concise explanation of why I set rules and what he can do if he dissagrees with those rules - none of this nonsensical "I make the rules, you just follow them" idiocy that permeates our lazy, unthinking society. Children are humans who lack experience, not pets who can add.

Originally posted by Edge
Job: If they were truly intelligent rules, increased discipline would not be necessary. In any case, discipline is too nebulous a word. However, as I get the impression you are attempting to eke out support for corporal punishment, I'll just echo Annabel in the future tense. Abuse is not needed or appropriate. Ever.

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Corporal punishment when administered correctly is NOT abuse.  I for one have no problem with a teacher spanking my children when they need it.

Proverbs 10:13 says "In the lips of him that hath understanding wisdom is found:  but a rod is for the back of him that is void of understanding."

Proverbs 13:24  "He that spareth his rod hateth his son:  but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

Notice I said when it is administered correctly.  There have been several instances of incorrect corporal punishment resulting in abuse.  But to say it is always abuse is incorrect.

I think you almost have to spank/swat a toddler, because it is impossible to reason with them. But once a child is old enough to understand things, then there is no longer a reason to administer corporal punishment, imho. I don't think a school should ever spank a child of any age. If the student's behavior is that bad, then the best thing is to give them a few days at home.

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um
I think you almost have to spank/swat a toddler, because it is impossible to reason with them. But once a child is old enough to understand things, then there is no longer a reason to administer corporal punishment, imho. I don't think a school should ever spank a child of any age. If the student's behavior is that bad, then the best thing is to give them a few days at home.

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That would be like sending your child to his/her room for misbehaving.  And their room has a TV, VCR, video game, stereo, hidden food somewhere, etc.  That's more of a reward than punishment.  That's why kids are out of control in schools now, because they don't get the discipline they need. 

Originally posted by waterwizard


That would be like sending your child to his/her room for misbehaving.  And their room has a TV, VCR, video game, stereo, hidden food somewhere, etc.  That's more of a reward than punishment.  That's why kids are out of control in schools now, because they don't get the discipline they need. 

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The purpose of a school is to provide an education to those that want one. If a student refuses to conduct himself/herself in an appropriate manner, why should the other students have to suffer for it? If you misbehave at work, do you expect your employer to give you a spanking? Of course not! You expect you will probably be fired! Sending the child home is an exact lesson of what the "adult world" will teach him. It is a lesson in reality. If he/she misses enough school, then failure of a grade will occur. How is that a reward?

How are other students suffering when the one misbehaving is the one receiving the discipline? School and work, apples and oranges. Discipline is part of education.
Nowadays, even if you send a kid home, assignments and such will be sent home with him. They will get the chance to do the work and catch up anyway, so they don't miss any work. Can't have these kids failing, it'll affect their self esteem. Our kids have been pampered too long; schools are afraid to mete out discipline because of overindulgent parents: "Don't you touch my kid!! He's an angel, he doesn't do anything wrong!"
Discipline starts at home; the school should be an extension of that discipline.

Originally posted by waterwizard
How are other students suffering when the one misbehaving is the one receiving the discipline?

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I sent my kid(who is now grown) to public school in the 4th grade, just to give it a try. One day, I went to the school to talk to the teacher about something. I knocked on the door of the classroom, there was no answer so I knocked again. After patiently waiting and more knocking, I finally opened the door and peaked inside the room. To my horror, kids were jumping from one desk to the other, throwing paper and generally raising hell and having a free for all. The teacher was sitting at his desk, oblivious to the chaos around him. The very next day I enrolled my son back in private school.

Every child that wants to learn has a right to receive his education in an environment that is conducive to learning.

Originally posted by waterwizard

Nowadays, even if you send a kid home, assignments and such will be sent home with him. They will get the chance to do the work and catch up anyway, so they don't miss any work.

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They shouldn't do that.

Our kids have been pampered too long; schools are afraid to mete out discipline because of overindulgent parents: "Don't you touch my kid!! He's an angel, he doesn't do anything wrong!"

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Then mommy and daddy should have to figure out what they are going to do with their "little angel", now that he is stuck at home and not receiving an education.

"Nowadays, even if you send a kid home, assignments and such will be sent home with him. They will get the chance to do the work and catch up anyway, so they don't miss any work. Can't have these kids failing, it'll affect their self esteem."

At my school, and at all the schools in the surrounding area, if you get suspended, you get zeros for everything you miss, whether it be a 10 point worksheet or a final worth 1/3 or your grade for the semester.