Age of the earth

Sauron

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Originally posted by Duane Morse
Well, the thing about the sounding of the mountains was not in reply to anything you had said, but to Didaskomenos the previous poster.

And you do not know if there was water under the crust before the flood, or what the fountains of the deep are.



If there was such water, it would leave behind evidence of its existence. 

Moreover, if it were under teh crust (riding between the crust and the mantle) then the termperature would have been substantial.  The interior of the earth is HOT.

In addition, the amount of water necessary to cover the earth in a world-wide flood would leave behind evidence of it sheer volume.

And finally, here's a page for you to look at:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html

You basically have a bunch of wild ideas, but no evidence for any of them.

And there is a crack around the planet, the plates are seperating from it.

Wrong.  The plates are not "seperating" from anything.

The plates themselves are independent, and have been for millions of years. The separation between them is vastly older than 4000 years.  And finally, underneath the plates there is molten rock - a strange place to be finding huge volumes of water.

Oh, and by the way:  where's your iridium deposit - you know, the one you'll need to prove that a meteor impact actually took place at that time? 

And how do you know the earth would have cracked fully, immediately? You know, the crack could have started out rather small, and grew.

I didn't say that it would have cracked fully.  But a crack of the kind you are talking about would have gushed water outwards, according to your "fountains of the deep" idea. 

And even the crack were slow and small, then nobody would have heard it.  And  it still wouldn't have made a sound like the one you require ("a bell"). 
I am not making up a comet or meteor strike. Comet Hale-Bopp passed by the earth in 2209 B.C., just 105 years before the flood.

But you have no evidence for a flood at that time.

And you have no evidence that any pieces of Hale-Bopp impacted the earth.

Having a comet pass by is NOT proof that it did all the other things you claim that it did.

And there is evidence of it in that ice core record of a dust event at that precise time.

That doesn't indicate that it was a comet.  Dust storms don't automatically point to comets -- assuming that your information about the ice core is even true at all.


And 80 years to build the ark or 100 does not matter. Noah began the construction just after that event.

But if the impact created the dust storms (as you say), and those dust storms were recorded in arctic areas, then the impact must have been huge and not small at all.  So again:  such an impact would have created a gushering of water immediately, not 120 years later.  You can't have it both ways.

And yes there is evidence to support a worldwide flood in the fossil records. Sea creatures on the mountain tops, sediment deposits, etc.

No. There is no evidence for a world-wide flood.  Sea cretures on mountaintops are evidence of tectonic motion and buckling of plates.  Not of floods.

An atom bomb would not make the sound now because the layer of water is gone. It is in the oceans. The sound would have only been possible with the layer of water under the crust to carry the vibrations and reverberate.

Nonsense.  Show your proof for this.
 
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Sauron

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Originally posted by Duane Morse

 

Oh, and a reminder:  we have evidence for human languages having already been very diverse and wide-ranging before 2000 BCE. 

So humans were already well on their way to having different languages even before the alleged Babel event. 

You failed to address that in your last post.
 
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Cantuar

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One of the most hilarious (and yet sad, too) things I ever heard was an interview with Frank Peretti, who drew a similar comparison. It went at least a little something like this...

"Did G~d REALLY say you shall not eat of any tree? And even if that's what it says in black and white, how do you know that's what He REALLY meant? I mean, it could be allegory. And it might not even be accurate. After all, it's been translated SO MANY times..."

And did God say that if they ate of the tree they'd die THAT DAY? That's what my copy of teh Bible says. I think it's mentioned twice. And I gather the same word was used as the word used for "day" in the creation story. But they didn't die on that day, they lived on outside the garden of Eden.
 
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<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600">
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">ARCSS-GISP2 Ice Core<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">The high resolution calcium record from the GISP2 ice core indicates the relative amount of dust in the atmosphere over <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place>Greenland</st1:place> and thus documents other abrupt, frequent and massive changes in climate that characterize the glacial portion of the ice core record.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">This ice core is thought to be rather unique. It is thought to have never gone through a melt cycle, so the ice has been continuously accumulating.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Originally this core was assigned a time period of around 105,000 - 110,000 years.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I was curious as to what it would show on a timeline of 6000 years, which is the approximate time since the creation of Adam and Eve.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">The core drilling began in 1988, so that is where I place the leading edge of the graph.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">The trailing edge was lined up at 4000 B.C., giving an approximately 6000 year length.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I did this in CorelDRAW! by setting up a file with a page width of 6000mm, letting me view the graph at 1mm per year. The leading edge of the graph is aligned at 12mm, while the trailing edge is aligned at 6000mm.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I was rather surprised to see how events depicted in both the Bible and in our recorded history lined up. Events such as the volcanic eruptions of Krakatoa and Vesuvius are very clear on the graph. The second largest spike on the graph aligns precisely with the Krakatoa eruption in 535 A.D. The 79 A.D. eruption of Vesuvius is also significant.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">The Biblical dates are no less remarkable. To align the Biblical dates I took the current year on the Hebrew calendar and went back from there to their year 0. Then a bit further back to align it with 4000 B.C. brings it to -240 H years. I start at the year 0 for the beginning of the Biblical timeline and set the birth years for Adam through Noah and his sons, and Peleg. Peleg is significant as it was in his days that the earth was divided. The division was the events at <st1:City><st1:place>Babel</st1:place></st1:City> described in Genesis chapter 11. In Isaiah chapter 24 verse 1 is described what sounds like a physical pole shift of the earth at this time.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Isaiah 24:1
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">This verse seems to be describing the events of the flood (maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste), and of <st1:City><st1:place>Babel</st1:place></st1:City> (and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof). Turning the world upside down is the part that sounds like a physical pole shift of the planet. And the scattering abroad of the inhabitants sounds like the beginnings of continental drift.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">The truly amazing thing is, the first very tall spike on the graph, indicating a very dramatic and sudden increase of the dust in the atmosphere, occurs at or around 1953 B.C., the same year that the Chinese calendar began. Coincidentally, Peleg happens to be around fifty years old at the time. Quite a coincidence that the Chinese calendar began at the same time as the confounding of language and speech by God as described in Genesis 11. And this spike is the third tallest on the graph.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">As would be expected if the planet actually turned over, there is a sudden increase of dust in the air. This is fairly short lived compared to the other events preceding or following it. One effect of the pole shift was to set the continents in motion. We see the remnants of that initial motion today, although the land masses have slowed considerably over the past 4000 years or so.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">The continents would have been moving at their fastest just after the pole shift, so the first land masses to collide would have the greatest amount of energy expended. The formation of the tallest mountain ranges and the largest dust events would be shortly after the shift. And this is what the ice core graph shows. The first couple spikes after the shifts are the most pronounced as far as duration and only a few spikes since has peaked higher.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">As the dust increases in the atmosphere the climate cools. And these first spikes after the pole shift have duration of about 500 years combined. That would have been a major ice age.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Further along are the two tallest spikes on the graph. I have identified the first with the eruption of Krakatoa in 535 A.D., but the second and tallest spike I have not been able to identify. However the current data with tree rings suggest that the dust event of 535 A.D. was actually a double event. So my guess would be another very large volcano that surpassed even Krakatoa, or a comet or meteor impact. There are several impact sites to choose from around the globe. But the ice core confirms the tree ring findings.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Other things like the facts that the climate that we enjoy today has only been in the last 800 years or so. Virtually all of our scientific advancements have been made in the last 800 years. This is very clearly shown in the ice core record. The graph evens out between the years 1200 and 1360 A.D. to a very low level of dust, and remains so until the present, indicating a warmer climate and calmer geologically speaking.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I have been able to identify one other event on the graph with our current scientific findings.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">In 1997 the comet Hale-Bopp passed by the earth on its way through the solar system. It is a fairly long term comet. The previous passing occurred in 2209 B.C. The ice core graph shows a spike precisely at 2209 B.C., or the Hebrew year 1551. This is just 105 years before the Biblical flood, which happened in the Hebrew year 1656, or 2104 B.C.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">The coincidence of the passing of Hale-Bopp and the spike in the graph suggests that Hale-Bopp split and a part impacted the earth. Current scientific findings show Hale-Bopp to be a rather large, misshapen, and unstable comet. And, coincidentally, Noah had his three sons five years later and it is believed that he began construction of the ark at around the same time.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">The aforementioned facts lead me to believe that this ice core graph is showing the planetary climatic and geological history over the past 6000 years. It also confirms the historical accuracy of the Bible.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I also believe this ice core record to be the witness in water mentioned in 1 John 5:8.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood:
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">This ice core directly confirms the historicity of the Bible with current scientific data.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Copies of the original CorelDRAW! file can be obtained by e-mailing me at
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Duane@computerroom.com
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">I can also export it to several other formats.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Be seeing you
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Duane Morse
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">P.S. Ironically, the Jewish people have an oral tradition that says something to the effect of – when a comet comes out of Orion; the end of the world is near.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Hale-Bopp comet came out of Orion and passed in 1997, and some of the Jews thought this was that comet. But when it passed and nothing happened they discounted its importance.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">Funny thing, but the last time Hale-Bopp passed by the earth was in 2209 B.C., and shortly thereafter was the flood. Noah and his family were the only survivors, because God warned him and Noah built the ark, construction of which began just after the passing of Hale-Bopp comet. And Hale-Bopp passed at the same time that a spike occurred in the ice core graph.
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">No joke. Just fact.<v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape id=_x0000_i1025 style="WIDTH: 5in; HEIGHT: 222.75pt" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:title="ARCSS-GISP2%20Ice%20Core-small" src="file:///E:\DOCUME~1\Duane\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_image001.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:shape>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"></v:shapetype>
&nbsp;
 
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ARCSS-GISP2 Ice Core

The high resolution calcium record from the GISP2 ice core indicates the relative amount of dust in the atmosphere over Greenland and thus documents other abrupt, frequent and massive changes in climate that characterize the glacial portion of the ice core record.

This ice core is thought to be rather unique. It is thought to have never gone through a melt cycle, so the ice has been continuously accumulating.
Originally this core was assigned a time period of around 105,000 - 110,000 years.
I was curious as to what it would show on a timeline of 6000 years, which is the approximate time since the creation of Adam and Eve.

The core drilling began in 1988, so that is where I place the leading edge of the graph.
The trailing edge was lined up at 4000 B.C., giving an approximately 6000 year length.

I did this in CorelDRAW! by setting up a file with a page width of 6000mm, letting me view the graph at 1mm per year. The leading edge of the graph is aligned at 12mm, while the trailing edge is aligned at 6000mm.

I was rather surprised to see how events depicted in both the Bible and in our recorded history lined up. Events such as the volcanic eruptions of Krakatoa and Vesuvius are very clear on the graph. The second largest spike on the graph aligns precisely with the Krakatoa eruption in 535 A.D. The 79 A.D. eruption of Vesuvius is also significant.

The Biblical dates are no less remarkable. To align the Biblical dates I took the current year on the Hebrew calendar and went back from there to their year 0. Then a bit further back to align it with 4000 B.C. brings it to -240 H years. I start at the year 0 for the beginning of the Biblical timeline and set the birth years for Adam through Noah and his sons, and Peleg. Peleg is significant as it was in his days that the earth was divided. The division was the events at Babel described in Genesis chapter 11. In Isaiah chapter 24 verse 1 is described what sounds like a physical pole shift of the earth at this time.

Isaiah 24:1
Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

This verse seems to be describing the events of the flood (maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste), and of Babel (and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof). Turning the world upside down is the part that sounds like a physical pole shift of the planet. And the scattering abroad of the inhabitants sounds like the beginnings of continental drift.

The truly amazing thing is, the first very tall spike on the graph, indicating a very dramatic and sudden increase of the dust in the atmosphere, occurs at or around 1953 B.C., the same year that the Chinese calendar began. Coincidentally, Peleg happens to be around fifty years old at the time. Quite a coincidence that the Chinese calendar began at the same time as the confounding of language and speech by God as described in Genesis 11. And this spike is the third tallest on the graph.

As would be expected if the planet actually turned over, there is a sudden increase of dust in the air. This is fairly short lived compared to the other events preceding or following it. One effect of the pole shift was to set the continents in motion. We see the remnants of that initial motion today, although the land masses have slowed considerably over the past 4000 years or so.

The continents would have been moving at their fastest just after the pole shift, so the first land masses to collide would have the greatest amount of energy expended. The formation of the tallest mountain ranges and the largest dust events would be shortly after the shift. And this is what the ice core graph shows. The first couple spikes after the shifts are the most pronounced as far as duration and only a few spikes since has peaked higher.
As the dust increases in the atmosphere the climate cools. And these first spikes after the pole shift have duration of about 500 years combined. That would have been a major ice age.

Further along are the two tallest spikes on the graph. I have identified the first with the eruption of Krakatoa in 535 A.D., but the second and tallest spike I have not been able to identify. However the current data with tree rings suggest that the dust event of 535 A.D. was actually a double event. So my guess would be another very large volcano that surpassed even Krakatoa, or a comet or meteor impact. There are several impact sites to choose from around the globe. But the ice core confirms the tree ring findings.

Other things like the facts that the climate that we enjoy today has only been in the last 800 years or so. Virtually all of our scientific advancements have been made in the last 800 years. This is very clearly shown in the ice core record. The graph evens out between the years 1200 and 1360 A.D. to a very low level of dust, and remains so until the present, indicating a warmer climate and calmer geologically speaking.

I have been able to identify one other event on the graph with our current scientific findings.
In 1997 the comet Hale-Bopp passed by the earth on its way through the solar system. It is a fairly long term comet. The previous passing occurred in 2209 B.C. The ice core graph shows a spike precisely at 2209 B.C., or the Hebrew year 1551. This is just 105 years before the Biblical flood, which happened in the Hebrew year 1656, or 2104 B.C.
The coincidence of the passing of Hale-Bopp and the spike in the graph suggests that Hale-Bopp split and a part impacted the earth. Current scientific findings show Hale-Bopp to be a rather large, misshapen, and unstable comet. And, coincidentally, Noah had his three sons five years later and it is believed that he began construction of the ark at around the same time.

The aforementioned facts lead me to believe that this ice core graph is showing the planetary climatic and geological history over the past 6000 years. It also confirms the historical accuracy of the Bible.
I also believe this ice core record to be the witness in water mentioned in 1 John 5:8.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood:

This ice core directly confirms the historicity of the Bible with current scientific data.

Copies of the original CorelDRAW! file can be obtained by e-mailing me at
Duane@computerroom.com
I can also export it to several other formats.

Be seeing you
Duane Morse

P.S. Ironically, the Jewish people have an oral tradition that says something to the effect of – when a comet comes out of Orion; the end of the world is near.
Hale-Bopp comet came out of Orion and passed in 1997, and some of the Jews thought this was that comet. But when it passed and nothing happened they discounted its importance.
Funny thing, but the last time Hale-Bopp passed by the earth was in 2209 B.C., and shortly thereafter was the flood. Noah and his family were the only survivors, because God warned him and Noah built the ark, construction of which began just after the passing of Hale-Bopp comet. And Hale-Bopp passed at the same time that a spike occurred in the ice core graph.
No joke. Just fact.
 
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Sinai

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Originally posted by Cantuar:


And did God say that if they ate of the tree they'd die THAT DAY? That's what my copy of teh Bible says. I think it's mentioned twice. And I gather the same word was used as the word used for "day" in the creation story. But they didn't die on that day, they lived on outside the garden of Eden.

Ah, but they did die that day. They died spiritually as their sin broke their harmonious fellowship with God and introduced the inclination to place one's own will and desires above God's will.
 
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Originally posted by Cantuar


And did God say that if they ate of the tree they'd die THAT DAY? That's what my copy of teh Bible says. I think it's mentioned twice. And I gather the same word was used as the word used for "day" in the creation story. But they didn't die on that day, they lived on outside the garden of Eden.

I'm surprised Sinai let you get by with this. You see the Hebrew word for "day" (Yom or Yhom) means exactly the same as it does in english. It's the context that changes the meaning.

I built my son a tree fort in one day. = 24 hour period.

In that day we&nbsp;will know God. =&nbsp; undetermined period of time.

Where you see the word "day" in the bible used alongside of a number it's a 24 hour day. Sort of like:

Joshua 6
2And the Lord said to Joshua, See, I have given Jericho, its king and mighty men of valor, into your hands.
<SUP>3</SUP>You shall march around the enclosure, all the men of war going around the city once. This you shall do for six days.


You see they were to march around the city for 6 days. Not six billion years.

Doc

&nbsp;

&nbsp;

&nbsp;

&nbsp;
 
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Originally posted by npetreley

It is an assumption that is confirmed and expanded upon throughout the Bible, particularly in the New Testament. So it's a pretty safe assumption.

It is a theological concept that is confirmed and expanded upon throughout the Bible. That doesn't mean it really happened. You're just assuming it did, since you have no actual evidence.
 
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Originally posted by LiveFreeOrDie
It is a theological concept that is confirmed and expanded upon throughout the Bible. That doesn't mean it really happened. You're just assuming it did, since you have no actual evidence.

The irony here is that you can't see the evidence until you're made spiritually alive through Christ. Otherwise I'd tell you to look in the mirror if you want evidence.
 
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Originally posted by npetreley

The irony here is that you can't see the evidence until you're made spiritually alive through Christ. Otherwise I'd tell you to look in the mirror if you want evidence.

I call that the old "you won't know the answer until you drink the Kool-Aid" argument.
 
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