If this was already a known factor in the gospel they preached, then why were Peter and the 12 told by Jesus NOT TO GO THE WAY of the GEntiles? Why were they told to "Go to NONE but the Jews?"
The EQUALITY of Jew and Gentile...where did Peter and the 12 teach this?
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Apollos1
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Someone has NOT been paying attention...
Jesus said not to go to the Gentiles BEFORE the cross...
BUT...
AFTER the cross (when the Law was "nailed to the cross" so the new testament of Christ could be brought in)...
Jesus told His disciples to "Go into ALL the world..."
Matthew 28:18f, Mark 16:15-16.
This post #1 above is very short-sighted!
Jesus said not to go to the Gentiles BEFORE the cross...
BUT...
AFTER the cross (when the Law was "nailed to the cross" so the new testament of Christ could be brought in)...
Jesus told His disciples to "Go into ALL the world..."
Matthew 28:18f, Mark 16:15-16.
This post #1 above is very short-sighted!
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After the Cross the KINGDOM program was still being offered to the NATION ISRAEL...nothing had changed!
The apostles never WENT into all the world, but stayed in Jerusalem.
Not short sighted at all...just pointing out that there are those here who are not in possession of ALL the facts.
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After the Cross the KINGDOM program was still being offered to the NATION ISRAEL...nothing had changed!
The apostles never WENT into all the world, but stayed in Jerusalem.
Not short sighted at all...just pointing out that there are those here who are not in possession of ALL the facts.
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Apollos1
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It was said - After the Cross the KINGDOM program was still being offered to the NATION ISRAEL...nothing had changed!
I guess Christ's death on the cross changed NOTHING then, huh???
Paul said the "law" was "nailed to the cross". What does that mean to you? You must not be paying attention.
"Kingdom program" is man-made terminology to imply man-made ideas - it can not be found in scripture. The kingdom was one of the many "glad tidingS" contained in the one gospel that all Apostles preached.
The apostles never WENT into all the world, but stayed in Jerusalem.
And you will prove this HOW?
...just pointing out that there are those here who are not in possession of ALL the facts.
This you have done for yourself...
I guess Christ's death on the cross changed NOTHING then, huh???
Paul said the "law" was "nailed to the cross". What does that mean to you? You must not be paying attention.
"Kingdom program" is man-made terminology to imply man-made ideas - it can not be found in scripture. The kingdom was one of the many "glad tidingS" contained in the one gospel that all Apostles preached.
The apostles never WENT into all the world, but stayed in Jerusalem.
And you will prove this HOW?
...just pointing out that there are those here who are not in possession of ALL the facts.
This you have done for yourself...
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heymikey80
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
During Jesus' earthly ministry that was the extent of the Gospel announcement.
Of course when Gentiles came to Him ... (the centurion's servant).
As to equality ...
To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ 2 Peter 1:1
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The council of Jerusalem answers this question. Peter taught equality between the Jews and the Gentiles long before Paul went to the Gentiles.
Acts 15:7-11And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us;And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
It was through Peter that the Gentiles heard the gospel. Also here at the Jerusalem council Peter taught the equality of the Jews and Gentiles in the gospel.
I guess you are going to have to come up with a different reason to believe what you believe. It definitely isn't based on sound biblical reasoning.
You keep asking these questions and the Word of God keep proving you wrong.
GLJCA
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yeshuasavedme
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"To the Jew first" -but they did go to the Gentiles -and the passage is taken out of context and made a pretext by those in MAD, for the passage says:
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
But then they did go!
Luk 9:52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
Jhn 4:9 Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.
Jhn 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
Jhn 4:40 So when the Samaritans were come unto him, they besought him that he would tarry with them: and he abode there two days.
And before Paul, still:
Act 8:25 And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.
Samaritans are "Gentiles" -"and called "strangers" by Jesus"
Luk 17:12-18 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
And they lifted up [their] voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
And when he saw [them], he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
And fell down on [his] face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where [are] the nine?
There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
allogenes 1) sprung from another tribe, a foreigner, alien
Always prove all things -especially when you are hearing if from MAD doctrine. always go check the passage for yourself and lay all Scripture side by side to compare it with itself, not with their private interpretation -Scripture always proves MAD doctrine wrong.
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I'm thankful for what I've learned from dispy's. I have trouble swallowing the whole "two gospel thing" just like I have trouble swallowing the covenants "the church has become Israel thing". But I have benefitted from the teaching that both have brought to the table.
Much to be learned here.
Billy <><
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heymikey80
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
Even covenantalists say something big changed; yet you, a dispensationalist, say nothing changed? That doesn't even sound like dispensationalism.From covenantalists:
the Synod rejects the errors of those ... Who teach that the purpose of Christ's death was not to establish in actual fact a new covenant of grace by his blood ... (from the Synod of Dordt)
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A Brother In Christ
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eph 4:11 And He gave thee apostles; and thee prophets; and thee evangelists; and some, pastors teachers;
why?
eph 4:12 For the maturing of the saints, for a work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.
peace in Christ
eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, unto thee perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ.
when does this happen?
1 john 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is.
amen
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yeshuasavedme
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I don't believe the Church is the nation of Israel, either, but I believe the nation of Israel received the name of the "New Man" which is "Israel," as a sign of the adoption to come, in Him.
When we who are born again by the Spirit of Christ receive our adoption bodies, which will be in His likeness, as the "second human being" -the only Living human Son of God, the "Firstborn" of God, over the earth- then we will be called "Israel" as to our human "being" and not be in Adam anymore.
Now we who are born again are dual natured, and choose to walk in Christ, the One New Man Spirit of adoption -which we receive when we are joined to Him, in Spirit.
Isaiah 49 shows that the New Man's name is Israel, opposed to the old man's name, which is Adam. Genesis 5:2.
The pre-incarnate LORD Jesus Christ gave His "Israel" Name -which was to come in the New Creation flesh-- to Jacob [ Genesis 32; Hosea 1`2:3-5], as a sign of the adoption to come, in the regeneration.
That is why it is said they are "called by His name": they are not called "YHWH" but "Israel", which is the New Man name which will be written on all who are regenerated in His likeness.
.But for now, we are in the Living Spirit, but not yet in the living body of the New Creation, are called "Christians".
Until we depart the Adam nature body we are in Christ in spirit, but in Adam in human nature of flesh.
so we are at this time called "Christians" and in that day we will be called "Israel" -along wih every natural son of Jacob who is born again, in His Spirit of promise -except for the 'one' the "Kinsman" raises up for His dead brother's name, who is born of His Living Spirit, first -guess who that is?
The biblical law of "Kinsman"
Deu 25:5¶If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.And it shall be, [that] the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother [which is] dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.
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yesuasaved me,
I'm curious when did gentiles become fellow citizens, and joint hiers. along with Israel.
Galations 3:23
23)But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
What is paul referring to when he says" the faith"
I'm curious when did gentiles become fellow citizens, and joint hiers. along with Israel.
Galations 3:23
23)But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
What is paul referring to when he says" the faith"
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yeshuasavedme
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First: fellow citizens of what? -Who was there first? When did they get added?
And what is the inheritance of which you speak?
-And I'm not a Galatian and I was never under the law, and Galations 3:23 has no article in the Greek.
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Hey guys, I nor any other covenantalist has said or will say that the church is the Nation of Israel. The nation of Israel are antichrists and therefore a heathen nation at this time.
What we are saying is that in Romans 11 Paul shows us "the real mystery" that believing Gentiles in the New Covenant are engrafted into Covenant Israel along with the believing Jews of the OT and NT. We are all reconciled into one new man as Paul says in Eph 2:15, and that which is made from that union is the Church of Jesus Christ.
The error in Dispensationalism is the thinking that the promises given to Israel are inherited through the bloodline of Abraham, which is wrong thinking and not biblical. They are inherited through faith in the seed of Abraham, which is Christ. Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
I think Paul says it best in Gal 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
GLJCA
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Scripture tells us who is this seed
Galations 3:16) Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Jesus is the seed
Genesis 22:18) And in thy seed(Jesus christ) shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
"And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise".
Do you see the contingency? "if ye [be] Christ's"
We are christ's through faith
GAlations 3 :14
14) That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
You seem to be confusing promise with promise(s)
Let's look at the scriptures shall we
Romans 9:4
4) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
We recieve "the promise" through faith, not on the basis of a natural bloodline, but by putting our faith in the finished work of the cross."The promises" however, are totally different we have no access to these promises.
ROMANS 9:7
7) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
In Isaac is the seed , in which the promises are to be made.
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I think you err in your thinking in differentiating between promise and promises. Let me show you what Paul said in 2Cor 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. He is writing to the Gentile church in Corinth telling them that they have these promises. Well what promises is he talking about? We have to go to the end of chapter six to find out.
2Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Doesn't that look familiar? Well sure it does. It was one of the promises that God gave to Israel.
Jer 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Now why would Paul be telling a gentile church that they have the promises that God gave to Israel? Can you answer that for me?
Here is another one.
2Cor 3:3 [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
The epistle of Christ ministered by Paul and the disciples was written in their hearts. That also was a promise given to Israel wasn't it?
There are more but I will stop there I think my point is made.
GLJCA
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