4 Reasons against Evolution

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AV1611VET

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1. NOT ENOUGH TIME
  • Using the Bible to calculate time, one concludes that the earth has gone around the sun roughly 6100 times. This is much too short a timespan for evolution to have occurred.
2. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT
  • [bible]Genesis 1:31[/bible]
3. NO ANIMALS DIED PRIOR TO THE FALL
  • [bible]Romans 5:12[/bible]
4. JESUS BELIEVED IN CREATION - NOT EVOLUTION
  • [bible]Mark 10:6[/bible]
 

ChemicalKali

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1. NOT ENOUGH TIME
  • Using the Bible to calculate time, one concludes that the earth has gone around the sun roughly 6100 times. This is much too short a timespan for evolution to have occurred.
2. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT
  • [bible]Genesis 1:31[/bible]
3. NO ANIMALS DIED PRIOR TO THE FALL
  • [bible]Romans 5:12[/bible]
4. JESUS BELIEVED IN CREATION - NOT EVOLUTION
  • [bible]Mark 10:6[/bible]

And theology matters to science why?
 
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milkyway

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1. NOT ENOUGH TIME
  • Using the Bible to calculate time, one concludes that the earth has gone around the sun roughly 6100 times. This is much too short a timespan for evolution to have occurred.
2. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT
  • [bible]Genesis 1:31[/bible]
3. NO ANIMALS DIED PRIOR TO THE FALL
  • [bible]Romans 5:12[/bible]
4. JESUS BELIEVED IN CREATION - NOT EVOLUTION
  • [bible]Mark 10:6[/bible]
A question for you:

How did you manage to post this thought? By building and using a machine mentioned in the bible?

Or by using a computer whose existence depends upon millions of hours of research and development carried out by scientists and engineers who did not get a jot of technical insight from any holy book?
 
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Logic_Fault

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1. NOT ENOUGH TIME
  • Using the Bible to calculate time, one concludes that the earth has gone around the sun roughly 6100 times. This is much too short a timespan for evolution to have occurred.
Good thing then that science uses reality instead of superstition in order to calculate the age of both the Earth and the universe.

2. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT
  • [bible]Genesis 1:31[/bible]
Why on Earth would you think the Bible constitutes scientific evidence? You might as well quote me Shakespeare.

3. NO ANIMALS DIED PRIOR TO THE FALL
  • [bible]Romans 5:12[/bible]
Right. And their remains we find rather frequently date to something less than 6,000 years, correct?

Show your evidence that this is the case.

4. JESUS BELIEVED IN CREATION - NOT EVOLUTION
  • [bible]Mark 10:6[/bible]
He also likely believed, if he existed at all, that the world was flat and that disease is caused by "unclean spirits." Same as the other ignorant folk of the time.

While these may be your reasons to disbelieve the theory of evolution they are not particularly good reasons let alone actual evidence against evolution.
 
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Tomk80

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1. NOT ENOUGH TIME
  • Using the Bible to calculate time, one concludes that the earth has gone around the sun roughly 6100 times. This is much too short a timespan for evolution to have occurred.
Using things like radiometric dating, we can conclude that the earth is actually in existence, complete with history, for 4.5 billion years. This means that your interpretation of the bible is probably incorrect.

2. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT
  • [bible]Genesis 1:31[/bible]
This starts of with the false notion that evolution is about improvement, it is not. It is about change. Every organism, living or death, changes it's environment. Due to genetic changes and natural selection, populations adapt to this change.

3. NO ANIMALS DIED PRIOR TO THE FALL
[bible]Romans 5:12[/bible]
Yeah, the dentition of meat-eaters of all areas proves this.

4. JESUS BELIEVED IN CREATION - NOT EVOLUTION
  • [bible]Mark 10:6[/bible]
Then Jesus believed false. Or, another option, might be that Jesus just didn't try to teach biology lessons. He had more important things to worry about.
 
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Magnus Vile

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So.

No actual science, then?

As for the reasons;

1: Accepting one mans calculation of the age of the world, based on his understanding of the geneologies in Genesis, makes sense, while rejecting the work of many men to calculate the age of the universe, and of the Earth, based on, you know, the universe and the age of the Earth, doesn''t.

That makes sense. :scratch:

2: You mean it had just the right number of tempting serpents and fallible humans? Incidentally, how does being set up by the creator and current owner of everything make the world "good" and us "bad"?

3: Yes, that also makes sense. All the animals in the world only die if humans eat the wrong fruit.

Hang on, that makes no sense at all.

Why is my cat being punished for something that a distant ancestor, of mine, did? Why am I being punished for it? I didn't eat the fruit, and "Good" though God may have thought the world might have been, even I could have given him pointers on tree security. "How about a fence?" I'd have said...

4: Jesus, even if he existed, and even if he was who he is claimed to be, was communicating with humans. Humans that believed in the flood. Who believed in creation. What was he supposed to do, start out with a class on evolutionary biology, and another on geology, before telling them that, maybe, not killing each other would be a good idea? He came to save mankind and give them a good grounding on the physical sciences?

I don't recall that part of the Bible..
 
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AV1611VET

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Using things like radiometric dating, we can conclude that the earth is actually in existence, complete with history, for 4.5 billion years. This means that your interpretation of the bible is probably incorrect.

What object has been dated at 4.5 billion years?

This starts of with the false notion that evolution is about improvement, it is not. It is about change. Every organism, living or death, changes it's environment. Due to genetic changes and natural selection, populations adapt to this change.

If it's that important to you, simply substitute the word 'improvement' with 'change'.

Yeah, the dentition of meat-eaters of all areas proves this.

Either that, or Paul disproves it.

Then Jesus believed false.

That interpretation is not available to us.

Or, another option, might be that Jesus just didn't try to teach biology lessons. He had more important things to worry about.

He didn't have to --- all He had to do was mention its antithesis in a viable context.
 
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rambot

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4. JESUS BELIEVED IN CREATION - NOT EVOLUTION
  • [bible]Mark 10:6[/bible]
I'll bite.
You'll note that this verse implies that man and woman had been around since the BEGINNING OF CREATION...yet they were the last things to be created.
So either this is a mistranslation or Jesus doesn't know the story very well....I'm obviously leaning to the former.

3. NO ANIMALS DIED PRIOR TO THE FALL
[bible]Romans 5:12[/bible]
The verse implies that there was no death true. But frankly, anyone with even a cursory understanding of hermenuetics (spelling?:D ) should know that Paul is talking about "spiritual death" before the fall.

2. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT
  • [bible]Genesis 1:31[/bible]
Part of the goodness God sees is in the working processes of evolution. Also, this is implying that living things are evolving to something BETTER when that is not the case: Just something that is better suited for what is happenning RIGHT NOW.

1. NOT ENOUGH TIME
  • Using the Bible to calculate time, one concludes that the earth has gone around the sun roughly 6100 times. This is much too short a timespan for evolution to have occurred.
Well, why is the Bible being used to calculate time?
 
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Ondoher

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1. NOT ENOUGH TIME
  • Using the Bible to calculate time, one concludes that the earth has gone around the sun roughly 6100 times. This is much too short a timespan for evolution to have occurred.
2. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT
  • [bible]Genesis 1:31[/bible]
3. NO ANIMALS DIED PRIOR TO THE FALL
  • [bible]Romans 5:12[/bible]
4. JESUS BELIEVED IN CREATION - NOT EVOLUTION
  • [bible]Mark 10:6[/bible]
At least you're not pretending you have scientific reasons for rejecting it.
 
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AV1611VET

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A question for you:

How did you manage to post this thought? By building and using a machine mentioned in the bible?

Or by using a computer whose existence depends upon millions of hours of research and development carried out by scientists and engineers who did not get a jot of technical insight from any holy book?

Both:
  • [bible]Job 38:35[/bible]
 
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Split Rock

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First off, I want to say that if you want to use scripture to provide evidence for creationism in this forum, others should not complain about it. This is the Creation-Evolution forum, and scripture forms the basis for Creationism doctrine. You are not claiming any of this is scientific, either. That said, let's look at your four points.

1. NOT ENOUGH TIME
  • Using the Bible to calculate time, one concludes that the earth has gone around the sun roughly 6100 times. This is much too short a timespan for evolution to have occurred.
You are making several assumptions here.
1. The biblical time line of begats in Genesis is complete and not missing begats that may have been deemed unimportant.
2. That the biblical time line of begats in Genesis is completely accurate despite being written down by fallible humans.
In addition,
3. Physical measurement of the earth's age leads to a wildly different conclusion.


2. THERE IS NO ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT
  • [bible]Genesis 1:31[/bible]
As the environment has changed over time, species have had to change as well. Those that could not are extinct. The fossil record shows this quite clearly.



3. NO ANIMALS DIED PRIOR TO THE FALL
  • [bible]Romans 5:12[/bible]
It makes very little sense for God to have created an ecosystem(s) that did not include death. There would be no recycling of nutrients and frankly no need for reproduction to replace individuals who have died. Many believe that the "death" refered to in Romans means spiritual rather than physical death.



4. JESUS BELIEVED IN CREATION - NOT EVOLUTION
  • [bible]Mark 10:6[/bible]

Jesus wrote no part of the bible. The best you could say here is that Mark believed that Jesus believed in Creation, since we have no knowledge of what Jesus really believed or said during his lifetime (on earth). In any case, the quote does not say how God created them male and female.
 
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Logic_Fault

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What object has been dated at 4.5 billion years?
No single object, to my knowledge, is dated at 4.5 billion years. I'm likely wrong on that though.

Anyway, here is how scientists arrived at 4.5 billion years:

WikiPedia said:
Modern geologists, based on extensive and detailed scientific evidence, consider the age of the Earth to be around 4.567 billion years (4.567×109 years). This age represents a compromise between the oldest-known terrestrial minerals – small crystals of zircon from the Jack Hills of Western Australia – and astronomers' and planetologists' determinations of the age of the solar system based in part on radiometric age dating of meteorite material and lunar samples.

The radiometric age dating evidence from the zircons further confirms that the Earth is at least 4.404 billion years old. Comparing the mass and luminosity of the Sun to the multitudes of other stars, it appears that the solar system cannot be much older than those rocks. Ca-Al-rich inclusions (inclusions rich in calcium and aluminium) – the oldest known solid constituents within meteorites which are formed within the solar system – are 4.567 billion years old, giving an age for the solar system and an upper limit for the age of the Earth. It is assumed that the accretion of the Earth began soon after the formation of the Ca-Al-rich inclusions and the meteorites. Since the accretion time of the Earth is not exactly known yet, and the predictions from different accretion models vary between several millions up to about 100 million years, the exact age of the Earth is difficult to define.

WikiPedia: Age of the Earth
You'll note that, much like evolution, the age of the Earth has been determined through multiple lines of evidence.
 
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Tomk80

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What object has been dated at 4.5 billion years?
Different meteorites that have landed on earth, for example the meteorites Allende and Guarana. From these we can derive the age of the earth through isochronic dating. The oldest rocks on earth have been dated to about 3.8 billion to 3.9 billion years.

If it's that important to you, simply substitute the word 'improvement' with 'change'.
But then your argument doesn't hold up.

Either that, or Paul disproves it.
Then it's fairly simple. We have found, in all layers of the earth, animals with a dentition for meat-eating. This means that they killed other animals. Therefore, if Paul tells us at some point animals didn't get eaten by other animals, Paul is wrong.

That interpretation is not available to us.
Why, because you say so?

He didn't have to --- all He had to do was mention its antithesis in a viable context.
And he didn't. So why do you pretend he did?
 
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AV1611VET

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I'll bite.
You'll note that this verse implies that man and woman had been around since the BEGINNING OF CREATION...yet they were the last things to be created.
So either this is a mistranslation or Jesus doesn't know the story very well....I'm obviously leaning to the former.

Lean on your own mistranslation --- try BEGINNING OF THE CREATION, instead.
 
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AV1611VET

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Different meteorites that have landed on earth, for example the meteorites Allende and Guarana. From these we can derive the age of the earth through isochronic dating. The oldest rocks on earth have been dated to about 3.8 billion to 3.9 billion years.

I'll accept that as an "I don't know"; but for the record, I believe that the Earth is 4.55 billion years old. I can't prove it, but I go with what others say just for the sake of arguing this moot point.

But then your argument doesn't hold up.

Ya --- right.

Then it's fairly simple. We have found, in all layers of the earth, animals with a dentition for meat-eating. This means that they killed other animals. Therefore, if Paul tells us at some point animals didn't get eaten by other animals, Paul is wrong.

Let's try and stay focused, okay? We're talking about the state of the earth on Day 7 - not Day 915,000.
 
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AV1611VET

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When PRATTs have lost their glamour, just discard the entire argumentation thingy?

Only if it's a PRATT --- do you know of anything that was labeled a PRATT --- only to be shown later to be true?

(Like Pluto?)
 
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Pete Harcoff

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Different meteorites that have landed on earth, for example the meteorites Allende and Guarana. From these we can derive the age of the earth through isochronic dating.

Something else worth noting which never gets discussed is the Sun and the fact that scientists can use solar models to estimate its age. And what they've found is that it falls right in line with ages from meteorites.

And FWIW, this is stuff that creationists have never explained or even talked about.
 
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