The Isrealite Covenant as Jews Understand It

Snowbunny

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Hola and a belated l'shana tova to all our Jewish friends!

I asked a question a little while ago about why Jews do not actively seek to convert people, and about this idea of a nation of priests... I dont recall exactly who answered me I think it might have been ChavaK? Anyway! after reading her answer i realized I do not really know much about their covenant... So how do Jews conceive of it... what does being the Chosen People really mean? Like what is expected of you...

I would really like to restrict this to just Jewish peoples' responses because that is what I want to know... as you might have noticed I deliberately tried to avoid things like "judeo christian" or "old covenant" because that evokes religious beliefs that extend beyond Judaism...
 

LittleLambofJesus

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I asked a question a little while ago about why Jews do not actively seek to convert people, and about this idea of a nation of priests
.Interesting topic. Bump for discussion.
 
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mnbvcxz87

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What's expected of jews as the chosen people is to practice the 613 commandments (although it is less for men/women as 613 is for both) and behave in such as way as to be an example upon gentiles, non jews.

Mainstream jews don't actively try to convert because, it just isn't done. Non jews are expected to convert of their own accord if they wish to become jewish, not as the result of persuasion.

Nation of priests? I haven't heard of that.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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What's expected of jews as the chosen people is to practice the 613 commandments (although it is less for men/women as 613 is for both) and behave in such as way as to be an example upon gentiles, non jews.
I would respond to that concerning "gentiles", but I am neither a Jew nor a "gentile".
 
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stillsmallvoice

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Hi all!

Hmm...

About that "Chosen People" thing, Rabbi Shraga Simmons writes (in his article The Chosen People: Appreciating an Often Misunderstood Idea, see http://www.aish.com/literacy/concepts/The_Chosen_People.asp):

The Jewish nation is often referred to as "the Chosen People."

Many people (including Jews) are uncomfortable with this idea. They perceive the concept of a "Chosen People" as racist and mindful of the Nazi concept of a supreme "Aryan" nation. It appears to contradict the accepted Western ideal of all people being equal before God.

Is the Jewish concept of choseness racist?

When the Torah refers to the Jewish people as "chosen," it is not in any way asserting that Jews are racially superior. Americans, Russians, Europeans, Asians and Ethiopians are all part of the Jewish people. It is impossible to define choseness as anything related to race, since Jews are racially diverse.

Yet while the term "Chosen People" (Am Nivchar- Deut. 7:6) does not mean racially superior, choseness does imply a special uniqueness.

What is this uniqueness?

Historically, it goes back to Abraham. Abraham lived in a world steeped in idolatry, which he concluded was contradicted by the reality of design in nature.

So Abraham came to a belief in God, and took upon himself the mission of teaching others of the monotheistic ideal. Abraham was even willing to suffer persecution for his beliefs. After years of enormous effort, dedication and a willingness to accept the responsibility to be God's representative in this world, God chose Abraham and his descendents to be the teachers of this monotheistic message.

In other words it is not so much that God chose the Jews; it is more accurate that the Jews (through Abraham) chose God.

(...).

The essence of being chosen means responsibility. It is a responsibility to change the world -- not by converting everyone to Judaism, but by living as a model community upheld by ethics, morals and beliefs of one God. In that way, we can influence the rest of mankind, a "light unto the nations" (Isaiah 42:6).

(...).

Further, Judaism is not exclusionary. A human being need not to be Jewish to reach a high spiritual level. Enoch "walked with God," and Noah had quite a high level of relationship, though neither were Jewish. Our tradition is that all of the 70 nations must function together and play an integral part in that "being" called humanity.

The flipside of being "chosen" is not so pleasant:

Amos 3:1-2 tells us:

Hear this word that the Lord has spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up out of the land of Egypt, saying: You only have I known of all the families of the earth; therefore I will visit upon you all your iniquities.

Be well!

ssv :wave:
 
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Snowbunny

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thank you so much stillsmallvoice! and i just realised i think it was you who answered my why dont jews convert people question...

so it seems to me that judaism is more than a religion... like jews do not concieve of it like other people think of religions... you dont have to become jewish to be saved... but if you are jewish you have responsibilities to be something...

okay so if i may ask... are the practices and rituals associated with judaism about correct worship and how we should worship or is it about honoring the relationship with God? because if you dont have to be jewish in order to go to heaven... just adhere to monotheism demonstrated by jews then that kind of means that non jews dont have to have sacrifices at temples and shofar horns and torahs and things right... just worship God?

and do you think that Jesus if not a prophet nor son of God was at least a very successful Jew? like because so many people are monotheistic and honor (well... verbally) the jewish status as role models, because of Jesus than his effect is what Jews are meant to do? ... i mean he is kind of responsible for christianity and islam which together are about 4 billion monotheists...

this is really interesting!! i never thought about religions like this...

sorry for all my questions!
Gracias!
Annette
 
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mnbvcxz87

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Yes that's right in judaism gentiles also go to heaven so long as they live morally, righteously.

Infact jewish hell isn't really hell like christian hell. What happens is to go to heaven, and be with god, your soul has to be pure, so jewish hell is where you will go if you deserve to, but only for a set amount of time, long enough so that your soul is purified enough so that you can then be with god.

How exactly this manifests itself we don't know but it's the idea. The kabbalah sect of judaism says this manifests itself much like buddhism, through rebirth until you have purified your soul through the actions of your various lives.

Also your other question, the various rituals are usually either commandments (ie meals) or, and more commonly, cutsoms. For example the head cap is only a custom, as is tzitztit.

And also about jesus jewish believers regard him as a false prophet, not alot more. There were many who claimed to be the jewish messiah, and he is seen as one...

I don't believe any of this but it's the jewish answer so glad I can be of help!
 
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stillsmallvoice

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Hi all!

Jayda06 said:
thank you so much stillsmallvoice!

You're welcome! :)

Jayda06 said:
so it seems to me that judaism is more than a religion... like jews do not concieve of it like other people think of religions...

It's much more than a religion!

Jayda06 said:
you dont have to become jewish to be saved... but if you are jewish you have responsibilities to be something...

Correct.

Jayda06 said:
okay so if i may ask... are the practices and rituals associated with judaism about correct worship and how we should worship or is it about honoring the relationship with God?

Both!

Jayda06 said:
...non jews dont have to have sacrifices at temples and shofar horns and torahs and things right... just worship God?

Correct.

Jayda06 said:
and do you think that Jesus if not a prophet nor son of God was at least a very successful Jew? like because so many people are monotheistic and honor (well... verbally) the jewish status as role models, because of Jesus than his effect is what Jews are meant to do? ... i mean he is kind of responsible for christianity and islam which together are about 4 billion monotheists...

Mnbvcxz87 is right about our view of Jesus. However, many of our Sages have had very positive things to say about Christianity's role in bringing morality & ethics to very many people; see http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=26206262#post26206262.

Be well!

ssv :wave:
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The flipside of being "chosen" is not so pleasant:

Amos 3:1-2 tells us:

Quote:
Hear this word that the Lord has spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up out of the land of Egypt, saying: You only have I known of all the families of the earth; therefore I will visit upon you all your iniquities.
Be well!

ssv :wave:
Deuteronomy 28 comes to mind also [Revelation 16?]. :wave:

15 " But it shall come to pass, if you do not obey the voice of the LORD your God, to observe carefully all His commandments and His statutes which I command you today, that all these curses will come upon you and overtake you: [SIZE=+2] [/SIZE]
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Also, how do the Jews translate this passage in Jeremiah 31 and does new mean New or Renewed? Shalom and thanks. :wave:

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold! Days/Times/yowm, ones coming, declaration of Y@hovah, and I CUT with house/bayith of Israel and house/bayith of Judah NEW Covenant/b@riyth.

32 Not as Covenant/b@riyth which I CUT with fathers/'ab of them [in day I strenghthened in hand of them, to bring them forth from land of Egypt] which they, they brake/parar, covenant/b@riyth of me, and I, I married in them declares Y@hovah.
Ezekiel 36:26 And I have given to you a NEW heart, And a NEW spirit I give in your midst, And I have turned aside the heart of stone out of your flesh, And I have given to you a heart of flesh.
 
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