Daywolf said:
None of these passages support that the 144,000 will not be of the tribes of Israel [literal]. As for the one you marked in red, this is referring to Jesus. Trough their seed, Jesus would be born and bless all the nations, it was a messianic prophecy that this passage eluded to. All these passages you quoted are concerning the tribes of Israel, not the Church. All this does is as I said, confuse scripture at every turn of the page.
Yes, the 144,000 are the literal tribes of Israel, and that's what I was also trying to show. The ten lost tribes have been dispersed into the world in fulfilment of the promise made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. And I agree, through their seed Jesus would be born and bless the nations, but that does not mean the literal line of 'seed' from Abraham stopped flowing.
In Hebrew thought there is four main methods of interpretation. the P's h a t - the straightforward, literal meaning of the text, the Remez - allusions, allegory, spiritual hints, the Drash - moral, reading one's own thoughts into the text (popular during Jesus time), and Sod, the meaning and numerical value of Hebrew letters which hide inner mystical meanings.
So, in those words I made red, you are right in seeing that Jesus was the seed spoken of, that was the Remez interpretation. But there is also the literal meaning or, P's h a t meaning of seed.
When God first told Abraham he would have an heir, Abraham didn't want someone 'adopted', he wanted that 'seed' to come from his own loins... literal.
(Gen 15:4) And, behold, the word of Jehovah came unto him, saying, This man shall not be thine heir;
but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
(Gen 15:5) And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and number the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him,
So shall thy seed be.
The promise to Abraham...
(Gen 17:4) As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be
the father of a multitude of nations.
(Gen 17:5) Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for
the father of a multitude of nations have I made thee.
(Gen 17:6) And I will make thee exceeding
fruitful, and
I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
(Gen 17:7) And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant,
to be a God unto thee and to thy seed after thee.
The promise to Izaac....
(Gen 26:3) Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee. For unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these lands, and
I will establish the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father.
(Gen 26:4) And I will multiply thy seed as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these lands.
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.
To Jacob...
(Gen 28:3) And God Almighty bless thee,
and make thee fruitful, and multiply thee, that thou mayest be a company of peoples.
(Gen 28:4) And give thee the blessing of Abraham, to thee, and to thy seed with thee. That thou mayest inherit the land of thy sojournings, which God gave unto Abraham.
And Jacob's blessing upon Ephraim...
(Gen 48:19) And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it. He also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: howbeit his younger brother shall be greater than he, and
his seed shall become a multitude of nations.
This does not mean that only those who are direct descendents with the blood line are Israel. Even those who joined themselves to Israel were to be considered 'one' with Israel.
(Isa 56:6) Also the foreigners that join themselves to Jehovah, to minister unto him, and to love the name of Jehovah, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from profaning it, and holdeth fast my covenant;
(Isa 56:7) even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt-offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.
Jesus is also called 'Israel', the olive tree. And as Paul points out in Ephesians...
(Eph 2:12) that ye were at that time separate from Christ,
alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of the promise, having no hope and without God in the world.
(Eph 2:13) But now in Christ Jesus ye that once were far off are made nigh in the blood of Christ.
(Eph 2:14) For he is our peace,
who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,
(Eph 2:15) having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;
that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace;
What two is he speaking of? Could it be the Jews (Judah) and the Christians, who make up the House of Israel? Reuniting them again 'in Christ'? It's only through Christ that the two houses can come together again in Him, as all Israel.
If the Jews make up the tribes of Judah and Benjamin, then can you say where the other ten tribes are located? The Jews now do not make up all the ten tribes so therefore can't be the total of the 144,000 in Revelation. Where is Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Naphtali, Asher, Reuben, Gad, Issachar, Zebulun and Joseph/Ephraim?
I can see nothing confusing about this whole subject, in fact it's made not only bible prophecy easier to understand, but gives a better overall understanding of the Bible.