Responding to Orthodox Judaism: Where do I find the answers?

patriarch

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In a yahoogroup devoted to "The Passion of the Christ" an obviously Orthodox Jew posted the following under the heading, "Why Jews don't believe in Jesus.". I am Catholic and would like to respond, but haven't a clue where to go for answers that he would regard as authoritative. Can anyone point the way?

Here is his post:

from www.aish.com/jewishissues

Why Jews Don't Believe In Jesus
by Rabbi Shraga Simmons
For 2,000 years Jews have rejected the Christian idea of Jesus as
messiah. Why?


In the wake of Mel Gibson's phenomenally successful film and the
production company's ambitious plans to market the film worldwide
to "the faithless," taking advantage of what is perhaps "the best
Christian outreach opportunity in 2,000 years," it is important for
Jews to understand why we don't believe in Jesus.

The purpose is not to disparage other religions, but rather to
clarify the Jewish position.

Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:

1) Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.

2) Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.

3) Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.

4) Jewish belief is based on national revelation.


But first, some background: What exactly is the Messiah?

The word "Messiah" is an English rendering of the Hebrew
word "Mashiach", which means "Anointed." It usually refers to a
person initiated into God's service by being anointed with oil.
(Exodus 29:7, I Kings 1:39, II Kings 9:3)

Since every King and High Priest was anointed with oil, each may be
referred to as "an anointed one" (a Mashiach or a Messiah). For
example: "God forbid that I [David] should stretch out my hand
against the Lord's Messiah [Saul]..." (I Samuel 26:11. Cf. II Samuel
23:1, Isaiah 45:1, Psalms 20:6)

Where does the Jewish concept of Messiah come from? One of the
central themes of Biblical prophecy is the promise of a future age
of perfection characterized by universal peace and recognition of
God. (Isaiah 2:1-4; Zephaniah 3:9; Hosea 2:20-22; Amos 9:13-15;
Isaiah 32:15-18, 60:15-18; Micah 4:1-4; Zechariah 8:23, 14:9;
Jeremiah 31:33-34)

Many of these prophetic passages speak of a descendant of King David
who will rule Israel during the age of perfection. (Isaiah 11:1-9;
Jeremiah 23:5-6, 30:7-10, 33:14-16; Ezekiel 34:11-31, 37:21-28;
Hosea 3:4-5)

Since every King is a Messiah, by convention, we refer to this
future anointed king as The Messiah. The above is the only
description in the Bible of a Davidic descendant who is to come in
the future. We will recognize the Messiah by seeing who the King of
Israel is at the time of complete universal perfection.

1. JESUS DID NOT FULFILL THE MESSIANIC PROPHECIES

What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he
will:

A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).

B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).

C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression,
suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword
against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)

D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite
humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world --
on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah
14:9).

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then
he cannot be "The Messiah."

Because no one has ever fulfilled the Bible's description of this
future King, Jews still await the coming of the Messiah. All past
Messianic claimants, including Jesus of Nazareth, Bar Cochba and
Shabbtai Tzvi have been rejected.

Christians counter that Jesus will fulfill these in the Second
Coming, but Jewish sources show that the Messiah will fulfill the
prophecies outright; in the Bible no concept of a second coming
exists.

________________________

2) JESUS DID NOT EMBODY THE PERSONAL QUALIFICATIONS OF MESSIAH

A. MESSIAH AS PROPHET

The Messiah will become the greatest prophet in history, second only
to Moses. (Targum - Isaiah 11:2; Maimonides - Yad Teshuva 9:2)

Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a
majority of world Jewry, a situation which has not existed since 300
BCE. During the time of Ezra, when the majority of Jews refused to
move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the
last prophets -- Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.

Jesus was not a prophet; he appeared on the scene approximately 350
years after prophecy had ended.

B. DESCENDENT OF DAVID

According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human
parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He
will not be a demi-god, (1) nor will he possess supernatural
qualities.

The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David
(see Genesis 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Ezekiel 34:23-
24). According to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of
a virgin birth, he had no father -- and thus could not have possibly
fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his
father's side from King David. (2)

C. TORAH OBSERVANCE

The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance.
The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone
coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false
prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states
that its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and
9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37)

____________________

3) MISTRANSLATED VERSES "REFERRING" TO JESUS

Biblical verses can only be understood by studying the original
Hebrew text -- which reveals many discrepancies in the Christian
translation.

A. VIRGIN BIRTH

The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from the verse in
Isaiah 7:14 describing an "alma" as giving birth. The word "alma"
has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came
centuries later and translated it as "virgin." This accords Jesus'
birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated
by gods.

B. SUFFERING SERVANT

Christianity claims that Isaiah chapter 53 refers to Jesus, as
the "suffering servant."

In actuality, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52,
describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The
prophecies are written in the singular form because the Jews
("Israel") are regarded as one unit. Throughout Jewish scripture,
Israel is repeatedly called, in the singular, the "Servant of God"
(see Isaiah 43:8). In fact, Isaiah states no less than 11 times in
the chapters prior to 53 that the Servant of God is Israel. When
read correctly, Isaiah 53 clearly [and ironically] refers to the
Jewish people being "bruised, crushed and as sheep brought to
slaughter" at the hands of the nations of the world. These
descriptions are used throughout Jewish scripture to graphically
describe the suffering of the Jewish people (see Psalm 44). Isaiah
53 concludes that when the Jewish people are redeemed, the nations
will recognize and accept responsibility for the inordinate
suffering and death of the Jews.

For further reading, go to:
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/faq/faq-ss.html

______________________

4) JEWISH BELIEF IS BASED SOLELY ON NATIONAL REVELATION

Throughout history, thousands of religions have been started by
individuals, attempting to convince people that he or she is God's
true prophet. But personal revelation is an extremely weak basis for
a religion because one can never know if it is indeed true. Since
others did not hear God speak to this person, they have to take his
word for it. Even if the individual claiming personal revelation
performs miracles, there is still no verification that he is a
genuine prophet. Miracles do not prove anything. All they show --
assuming they are genuine -- is that he has certain powers. It has
nothing to do with his claim of prophecy.

Judaism, unique among all of the world's major religions, does not
rely on "claims of miracles" as the basis for its religion. In fact,
the Bible says that God sometimes grants the power of "miracles" to
charlatans, in order to test Jewish loyalty to the Torah (Deut.
13:4).

Of the thousands of religions in human history, only Judaism bases
its belief on national revelation -- i.e. God speaking to the entire
nation. If God is going to start a religion, it makes sense He'll
tell everyone, not just one person.

Maimonides states (Foundations of Torah, ch. 8):


The Jews did not believe in Moses, our teacher, because of the
miracles he performed. Whenever anyone's belief is based on seeing
miracles, he has lingering doubts, because it is possible the
miracles were performed through magic or sorcery. All of the
miracles performed by Moses in the desert were because they were
necessary, and not as proof of his prophecy.

What then was the basis of [Jewish] belief? The Revelation at Mount
Sinai, which we saw with our own eyes and heard with our own ears,
not dependent on the testimony of others... as it says, "Face to
face, God spoke with you..." The Torah also states: "God did not
make this covenant with our fathers, but with us -- who are all here
alive today." (Deut. 5:3)


Judaism is not miracles. It is the personal eyewitness experience of
every man, woman and child, standing at Mount Sinai 3,300 years ago.

For further reading: "Did God Speak at Mount Sinai?"

WAITING FOR THE MESSIAH

The world is in desperate need of Messianic redemption. And to the
extent we are aware of the problems of society, is the extent we
will yearn for redemption. As the Talmud says, one of the first
questions asked of a Jew on Judgment Day is: "Did you yearn for the
arrival of the Messiah?"

How can we hasten the coming of the Messiah? The best way is to love
all humanity generously, to keep the mitzvot of the Torah (as best
we can), and to encourage others to do so as well.

Despite the gloom, the world does seem headed toward redemption. One
apparent sign is that the Jewish people have returned to the Land of
Israel and made it bloom again. Additionally, a major movement is
afoot of young Jews returning to Torah tradition.

The Messiah can come any day, and it all depends on our actions. God
is ready when we are. For as King David says: "Redemption will come
today -- if you hearken to His voice."

For further study visit: Jews for Judaism

See also:

"You Are My Witness: The Traditional Jewish Response to Christian
Missionaries" A booklet in pdf format by Yisroel C. Blumenthal

"The Real Messiah," by Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan

"The Path of the Righteous Gentile," by Chaim Clorfene and Yakov
Rogalsky

FOOTNOTES

1.Maimonides devotes much of the "Guide for the Perplexed" to the
fundamental idea that God is incorporeal, meaning that He assumes no
physical form. God is Eternal, above time. He is Infinite, beyond
space. He cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that God assumes
human form makes God small, diminishing both His unity and His
divinity. As the Torah says: "God is not a mortal" (Numbers 23:19).

2. In response, it is claimed that Joseph adopted Jesus, and passed
on his genealogy via adoption. There are two problems with this
claim:


a) There is no Biblical basis for the idea of a father passing on
his tribal line by adoption. A priest who adopts a son from another
tribe cannot make him a priest by adoption;

b) Joseph could never pass on by adoption that which he doesn't
have. Because Joseph descended from Jeconiah (Matthew 1:11) he fell
under the curse of that king that none of his descendants could ever
sit as king upon the throne of David. (Jeremiah 22:30; 36:30)

To answer this difficult problem, apologists claim that Jesus traces
himself back to King David through his mother Mary, who allegedly
descends from David, as shown in the third chapter of Luke. There
are four basic problems with this claim:


a) There is no evidence that Mary descends from David. The third
chapter of Luke traces Joseph's genealogy, not Mary's.

b) Even if Mary can trace herself back to David, that doesn't help
Jesus, since tribal affiliation goes only through the father, not
mother. Cf. Numbers 1:18; Ezra 2:59.

c) Even if family line could go through the mother, Mary was not
from a legitimate Messianic family. According to the Bible, the
Messiah must be a descendent of David through his son Solomon (II
Samuel 7:14; I Chronicles 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6). The third
chapter of Luke is irrelevant to this discussion because it
describes lineage of David's son Nathan, not Solomon. (Luke 3:31)

d) Luke 3:27 lists Shealtiel and Zerubbabel in his genealogy. These
two also appear in Matthew 1:12 as descendants of the cursed
Jeconiah. If Mary descends from them, it would also disqualify her
from being a Messianic progenitor.

For more on "The Passion" see:

Gibson's Blood Libel

Jews and Christians after The Passion

The Passion: The Movie and the Aftermath

Mel Gibson and the Jews

The Passion: A Historical Perspective"

Author Biography:
Rabbi Shraga Simmons spent his childhood trekking through snow in
Buffalo, New York. He has worked in the fields of journalism and
public relations, and is now the Co-editor of Aish.com in Jerusalem.
 

The Thadman

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patriarch said:
C. TORAH OBSERVANCE

The Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance.
The Torah states that all mitzvot remain binding forever, and anyone
coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false
prophet. (Deut. 13:1-4)

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states
that its commandments are no longer applicable. (see John 1:45 and
9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37)

John 1:45: Not Jesus Speaking: Philip found Nathanael, and said to him, “We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, wrote: Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”

John 9:16: Not Jesus Speaking: Some therefore of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, because he doesn’t keep the Sabbath.” Others said, “How can a man who is a sinner do such signs?” There was division among them.

Acts 3:22: Not Jesus Speaking: For Moses indeed said to the fathers, ‘The Lord God will raise up a prophet for you from among your brothers, like me. You shall listen to him in all things whatever he says to you.

Acts 7:37: Not Jesus Speaking: 37 This is that Moses, who said to the children of Israel, ‘The Lord our God will raise up a prophet for you from among your brothers, like me.’

The only one that comes even close to supporting this notion is the debate about keeping the Sabbath, but the Abbot had even larger arguments and the Talmud is ambiguous on many Sabbath related issues.

Looking at what is in the Torah, Jesus in NO way broke the Sabbath.

According to the Oral Law, dragging your chair could be considered work.

EVERY other teaching Jesus has to offer SUPPORTS and ENCOURAGES proper interpretation and practice of the Torah.

Shlomo,
-Steve-o
 
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simchat_torah

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And He said He didn't come to abolish the Torah.


The problem comes when Jews claim he lied... that while he may have stated he wasn't here to abolish the Torah, that he in fact did.

This is what we must explicitly prove. Unfortuatnely, today I haven't had the time to address this thread as I hoped because Pesach came upon me too quickly!

I've just been making a few random posts on my way to bed, so I appologize Patriarch for not dedicating the time I promised to this project.

shalom & my deepest regrets,
yafet
 
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Hix

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The proboblem comes from those christians who claim he was "the end of the law" in other words every single word of every prophet was follow the torah forever, yet all of a sudden that was changed. It doesnt add up, they are right, BUT Yeshua didnt come to be an end of the law or abolish it, infact he came to promote it! G-ds plan for the world is centered soley on Torah, it even existed before the world itself did, and there is no contradiction of this in the Brit Chadasha.

Take a walk into most christian denom forums here and say that Torah is eternal and youl be dubbed a heretic. Infact the very message of evangelism to the Jews by fundy christians is "the Torah cant save you even though it says it can over 30 times in the Tanach" and honestly I can see how off putting that really is. I just wish Jews could see that even though the christians proclaim this, Yeshua said completely to the contrary. Whilst they are not free from blame, I can honestly say that the strawman "jesus" erected by the church is substantially to blame for the Jews rejection of Moshiach.

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~
 
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patriarch

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simchat_torah said:
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The problem comes when Jews claim he lied... that while he may have stated he wasn't here to abolish the Torah, that he in fact did.

This is what we must explicitly prove. Unfortuatnely, today I haven't had the time to address this thread as I hoped because Pesach came upon me too quickly!

I've just been making a few random posts on my way to bed, so I appologize Patriarch for not dedicating the time I promised to this project.

shalom & my deepest regrets,
yafet
I understand, but it's less important that he be answered right away than that he be answered. Maybe after Pesach?

Patriarch
 
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Shalom in the name of Rabbi Yeshua Bar Yosef,

As I have studied Judaism in Jewish Bible colleges (yeshivot),
I have written a short summary on my website
as to why Orthodox Jews reject Jesus, it is:

israelimission.org please click on the "Why reject Yeshua?" link.

In Yeshua,
Israel.
 
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