I am the Problem

clirus

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2004
3,208
106
✟3,900.00
Faith
Baptist
I am the Problem

I recently passed a road construction project and was shocked to see that every piece of construction equipment was made in a foreign country.

I went home and thought about this. Was the Republican Bush Administration at fault, was the Democrats at fault, was Free Trade agreements the fault, was WalMart at fault? My conclusion was that, I am the Problem.

I am a low price buyer. I seldom look at the label to check where the product came from nor the social political implications of the purchase.

I once worked for a company that had a similar problem. The company had many divisions and the question was whether to buy from within or outside the company. The decision was made that if the item was less than 10% higher than the outside price, the purchase had to be made from within the company. If the within company price was greater than 10% the purchase could be outside the company. I have always thought this was reasonable, but I am afraid all American prices are greater than 10% above foreign prices. This may not be true, but it is my perception.

What can be done. America should protect all patents vigorously. America should protect copyright laws vigorously. America should prosecute all foreign companies that violate American laws. Even to going to war.

I think the main thing is that American companies must restore confidence that the price of American products are competitive with foreign products.

We may have to coincide certain products to foreign countries, but we should fight.

I do not favor government regulations and controls. Russia is an example of the failure of government controlled economies. The solution must be a free market capitalistic solution.

This may cause inflation, but there are social political implications if nothing is done.
 

KenH

Christian
Aug 1, 2003
4,452
251
68
Arkansas
✟13,818.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
quantumspirit said:
and budget surpluses under him.

No, we never quite balanced the budget under Bill Clinton. We did come close one fiscal year but the national debt increased every year under Bill Clinton and has in this country for about 45 years. The alleged "surplus" under Bill Clinton was an accounting gimmick using the Social Security yearly surplus to mask the true deficit - and, of course, the Social Security surplus was spent. So much for the alleged "surplus".
 
Upvote 0

praying

Snazzy Title Goes Here
Site Supporter
Jan 9, 2004
32,635
1,608
67
New Jersey
✟86,040.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
clirus said:
I am the Problem

I recently passed a road construction project and was shocked to see that every piece of construction equipment was made in a foreign country.

I went home and thought about this. Was the Republican Bush Administration at fault, was the Democrats at fault, was Free Trade agreements the fault, was WalMart at fault? My conclusion was that, I am the Problem.

I am a low price buyer. I seldom look at the label to check where the product came from nor the social political implications of the purchase.

I once worked for a company that had a similar problem. The company had many divisions and the question was whether to buy from within or outside the company. The decision was made that if the item was less than 10% higher than the outside price, the purchase had to be made from within the company. If the within company price was greater than 10% the purchase could be outside the company. I have always thought this was reasonable, but I am afraid all American prices are greater than 10% above foreign prices. This may not be true, but it is my perception.

What can be done. America should protect all patents vigorously. America should protect copyright laws vigorously. America should prosecute all foreign companies that violate American laws. Even to going to war.

I think the main thing is that American companies must restore confidence that the price of American products are competitive with foreign products.

We may have to coincide certain products to foreign countries, but we should fight.

I do not favor government regulations and controls. Russia is an example of the failure of government controlled economies. The solution must be a free market capitalistic solution.

This may cause inflation, but there are social political implications if nothing is done.

Clirus I am shocked, shocked I tell you. You have actually posted something that I can get behind except for the part about war. If my getting behind means anything at all, probably not , that and a nickel you can get on a bus ;) at any rate. Man will wonders never cease and you didn't even mention the atheistic liberal media. Have you had your coffee yet? :scratch: ^_^
 
Upvote 0

Alarum

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2004
4,833
344
✟6,792.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Politics
US-Democrat
KenH said:
No, we never quite balanced the budget under Bill Clinton. We did come close one fiscal year but the national debt increased every year under Bill Clinton and has in this country for about 45 years. The alleged "surplus" under Bill Clinton was an accounting gimmick using the Social Security yearly surplus to mask the true deficit - and, of course, the Social Security surplus was spent. So much for the alleged "surplus".

This is completely true. Of course Clinton did a much better job then Bush, but it was still not good. The debt increased 1.5 trillion dollars between 1992 and 2000.

Of course it increased 1.4 trillion dollars under Bush senior's 4 year term, and between 1980 and 1988 it went from 930 billion to 2.6 trillion, so I guess the Democrats can at least state, clearly and fairly:

"We might not be perfect, but we are much more fiscally responsible then the Republicans."

Heck, seeing the number of times Kerry was attacked for his budget cut votes, I think that's a pretty easy position to support.
 
Upvote 0

quantumspirit

evangelical humanist
Jul 21, 2004
1,225
79
51
Minnesota
✟1,798.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
clirus said:
I do not favor government regulations and controls. Russia is an example of the failure of government controlled economies. The solution must be a free market capitalistic solution.

This may cause inflation, but there are social political implications if nothing is done.
I have been critical of capitalism, but I think a restoration of what we had before Bush and Cheney would be very good, capitalism with regulation. What the Bush administration gives us is not true capitalism, just unchecked greed.
 
Upvote 0

DieHappy

and I am A W E S O M E !!
Jul 31, 2005
5,682
1,229
53
✟26,607.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
clirus said:
What can be done. America should protect all patents vigorously. America should protect copyright laws vigorously. America should prosecute all foreign companies that violate American laws. Even to going to war.
This means war with China. They are the biggest patent law violator not just of our stuff but of most of Europe as well.
Are we really ready for that?

I wonder who would be hurt more, us or China, if we simply stopped allowing any importation from them. Which Tom Clancy book did that happen in?
 
Upvote 0

UberLutheran

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2004
10,707
1,677
✟20,440.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The sun is going to rise in the west tomorrow morning and the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are going to appear.

I have actually just agreed with something Clirus posted (except for the war part)!


home.jpg
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

quantumspirit

evangelical humanist
Jul 21, 2004
1,225
79
51
Minnesota
✟1,798.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
KenH said:
No, we never quite balanced the budget under Bill Clinton. We did come close one fiscal year but the national debt increased every year under Bill Clinton and has in this country for about 45 years. The alleged "surplus" under Bill Clinton was an accounting gimmick using the Social Security yearly surplus to mask the true deficit - and, of course, the Social Security surplus was spent. So much for the alleged "surplus".
I heard this before, and it's a lie being circulated with the help of present treasury secretary and Bush lover, John Snow. If you like John Snow, you better hope that the government gets control of Google's access pages, and only leaves links of the surplus by John Snow.

It is also known that Clinton extended the solvency of SS, as well as creating a surplus. You cannot extend solvency by taking money away from something, common sense.

If you really want to know what happened to Clinton's surplus...the republicans wanted to give it to their corporate friends, democrats wanted to give it to programs for the poor, Clinton himself wanted to use it to pay down the debt. It ended up going into "revenue sharing", distributed to the states for them to use as they saw fit.
 
Upvote 0

Grey Eminence

Regular Member
Dec 8, 2004
666
14
43
✟874.00
Faith
Atheist
Politics
CA-NDP
clirus said:
... What can be done. America should protect all patents vigorously. America should protect copyright laws vigorously. America should prosecute all foreign companies that violate American laws. Even to going to war.

...

I do not favor government regulations and controls. Russia is an example of the failure of government controlled economies. The solution must be a free market capitalistic solution.

You contradict yourself. You advocate vigerous state involvement in the form of patent and copyright regulations and the threat and use of military actions. Then you turn around and say the solution must be of the 'free market'.

What mechanism should the 'free market' employ to control the problems you set out without resorting to 'state' intervention in the economy?
 
Upvote 0

DieHappy

and I am A W E S O M E !!
Jul 31, 2005
5,682
1,229
53
✟26,607.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
quantumspirit said:
It is also known that Clinton extended the solvency of SS, as well as creating a surplus. You cannot extend solvency by taking money away from something, common sense.
There's been a "surplus" on the social security side for decades. What did Clinton do to extend the solvency?
 
Upvote 0

quantumspirit

evangelical humanist
Jul 21, 2004
1,225
79
51
Minnesota
✟1,798.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
DieHappy said:
There's been a "surplus" on the social security side for decades. What did Clinton do to extend the solvency?
I'm not exactly certain, but while in college I do remember reading articles saying that, before Clinton, SS solvency was through 2005 (eek!) or 2019 at the latest. By 2001, SS solvency was projected to 2072. Because of Bush, it has been pulled back to 2042. Keep in mind that full solvency means 100% payout, and after that, SS does not completely dissolve, but payouts will be reduced to 81%.

At present people are only taxed for SS on the first $90,000 of their income. Keeping SS afloat has always required making periodic modifications, like raising this ceiling by the rate of inflation. I like the idea of raising the ceiling to $200,000, the so-called democrat/republican borderline.
 
Upvote 0

KenH

Christian
Aug 1, 2003
4,452
251
68
Arkansas
✟13,818.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
quantumspirit said:
I heard this before, and it's a lie being circulated

I don't know what Snow is saying about the yearly increase in the national debt. I get my information from the historical records of the national debt. I invite you to take a look at them. If you do, then you will see that I told the truth:

www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdhisto4.htm

Please notice that for every fiscal year since 1960 that the national debt has increased every year. We came close to being in balance in 2000.

It is always a good idea to verify the facts before calling what someone is posting a lie.;)
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

azzy

Veteran
Site Supporter
Jul 17, 2005
1,445
104
66
Rock Hill SC
✟49,057.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
clirus said:
I am the Problem

I recently passed a road construction project and was shocked to see that every piece of construction equipment was made in a foreign country.

I went home and thought about this. Was the Republican Bush Administration at fault, was the Democrats at fault, was Free Trade agreements the fault, was WalMart at fault? My conclusion was that, I am the Problem.

I am a low price buyer. I seldom look at the label to check where the product came from nor the social political implications of the purchase.

I once worked for a company that had a similar problem. The company had many divisions and the question was whether to buy from within or outside the company. The decision was made that if the item was less than 10% higher than the outside price, the purchase had to be made from within the company. If the within company price was greater than 10% the purchase could be outside the company. I have always thought this was reasonable, but I am afraid all American prices are greater than 10% above foreign prices. This may not be true, but it is my perception.

What can be done. America should protect all patents vigorously. America should protect copyright laws vigorously. America should prosecute all foreign companies that violate American laws. Even to going to war.

I think the main thing is that American companies must restore confidence that the price of American products are competitive with foreign products.

We may have to coincide certain products to foreign countries, but we should fight.

I do not favor government regulations and controls. Russia is an example of the failure of government controlled economies. The solution must be a free market capitalistic solution.

This may cause inflation, but there are social political implications if nothing is done.
Well,some of us cant afford to pay the higher union labor prices.
 
Upvote 0

elijah115

Senior Veteran
Oct 29, 2005
3,282
80
✟11,529.00
Faith
Christian
Yes consumerism is a problem which favours capitalists and economies. But so is global social injustice. I find it surprising that a so-called Christian, a child of God if you will, thinks American have some special additional human rights, which other nationalities are not entitled to. Love your enemies. That means it's wrong to murder your enemies, PERIOD.

it's morally defective, and selective christian adherence to say this:

What can be done. America should protect all patents vigorously. America should protect copyright laws vigorously. America should prosecute all foreign companies that violate American laws. Even to going to war.



What do you understand by the concept "The lord rebuke you"?

yes if international laws are violated it is the right of Sovereign victim to prosecute. But American laws are created by Americans for American - not for international adherence. What about all the riches occidental countries stole (that is took without paying for) from developing countries? I suppose the rest of the world should go to war with the West for that?

America is not a christian nation. If it was you wouldnt go to war.
 
Upvote 0

ApocryphaNow

Well-Known Member
Nov 9, 2005
513
60
40
State College, PA
✟978.00
Faith
Atheist
Politics
US-Others
Grey Eminence said:
You contradict yourself. You advocate vigerous state involvement in the form of patent and copyright regulations and the threat and use of military actions. Then you turn around and say the solution must be of the 'free market'.

What mechanism should the 'free market' employ to control the problems you set out without resorting to 'state' intervention in the economy?

Being conservative means conveniently ignoring diametricaly opposed arguments in ones platform.

I wasn't really onboard with the democrats and fiscal responsibility until I saw the alternative when Bush was elected. Now I feel disinclined to listen to anything Republicans say when they toot their horns. I trust Republicans with my money like I trust an alcoholic to guard my liquor cabinet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: quantumspirit
Upvote 0

quantumspirit

evangelical humanist
Jul 21, 2004
1,225
79
51
Minnesota
✟1,798.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
KenH said:
I don't know what Snow is saying about the yearly increase in the national debt. I get my information from the historical records of the national debt. I invite you to take a look at them. If you do, then you will see that I told the truth:

www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdhisto4.htm

Please notice that for every fiscal year since 1960 that the national debt has increased every year. We came close to being in balance in 2000.

It is always a good idea to verify the facts before calling what someone is posting a lie.;)
I did take a peek at that public debt site, and the small increases in Clinton's last years could have been due to inflation, one year it was 18 billion compared to 5.5 trillion. I did find some other sources that point out the snow job.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=washingtonstory&sid=aGqLx61MRY6w

http://www.brookings.edu/views/op-ed/mann/20040105.htm

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp?c=klLWJcP7H&b=914257&ct=1742133

If you want more, you can google it yourself.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

quantumspirit

evangelical humanist
Jul 21, 2004
1,225
79
51
Minnesota
✟1,798.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
KenH, I just did a google of my own and found this:

http://www.slate.com/id/2104952/

According to the White House budget office, the federal government spent $298.4 billion on national defense in 1992 and $294.5 billion on national defense in 2000. That represents a fairly modest cut in response to a momentous event—the Cold War's end. If you factor in inflation (which, conservatives frequently complain in other contexts, confounds the true meaning of the term "budget cut"), it represents a 17 percent reduction in "real" spending. To say that Clinton balanced the budget "largely" at the expense of national defense is a lie. Clinton balanced the budget through a variety of means. Tax increases helped; Pentagon cuts helped; and a booming economy helped a lot. (emphasis mine)
 
Upvote 0