As I mentioned, I am moving this here from the Round Tables to a more appropriate discussion forum:
Schrack,
There are certainly different types of tongues mentioned in the bible.
The first type are the type of tongues for which there is no interpretation because someone else is able to understand it in their native language. This happened in Acts 2.
The second type is the type of tongues given for the edification of the church. Such a tongue requires an interpretation for it to make sense to those listening, hence the reason for Paul's instructions.
The third type is the type of tongues which your spirit gives praises to God as edification for yourself (which is why Paul said a tongue not interpreted only benefits the one speaking it and not anybody else).
The baptism of the Holy Spirit was often followed by people speaking in tongues, and no one in the early church was denied the Holy Spirit's baptism. Not even a Gentile Centurion and his entire household. If the Spirit was given only for doctrine-making, and not personal edification, where then does the role of Counselor come into play if the Holy Spirit is silent towards your own spiritual and emotional needs? Does he not speak to you as He did with thousands of others recorded in the bible? How does one hear God without the Holy Spirit - for it is indeed He (God Himself) who communicates to us in many ways.
How can one have a real relationship with something if they can't communicate with it?
The Word of God is not what is bound between two leather covers. The Word of God is living, and it is the Spirit of God, whom gives life, real words for real people. Just as easily as God speaks to me, he gives me other words for other people, and sometimes it is the interpretation of a tongue someone else has spoken. Tongues require people to step out in faith, not pride, for it is that faith of working with God which gives glorifies God - and tongues is just one of many incredible ways God has provided to not only build up our faith in Him, but to build up and edify his church.
In that same verse where Paul talks about prophecy ceasing, and tongues being stilled, he too says that knowledge will pass away. Let's reread the verse in 1 Cor 13:8
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
The point about this chapter is about the unfailing nature of love, and how love is the most important means of all, and the only one that lasts. Paul mentions that just as prophecies will cease, tongues stilled, so too will knowledge pass away. If the context of this verse means that prophecy and tongues will one day cease, never to be seen again, then so too one must accept that the same knowledge that accompanied prophecy and tongues (since knowledge is indeed listed in the same category listing here) will also cease with them. Now this context, if true, would mean that the doctrines and teachings themselves which were a result of having the gifts of the Holy Spirit, would in fact cease, never to be seen again. In a sense, it is a self-defeating reality. Without the Spiritual gifts, the knowledge and understanding those gifts bring will simply not be. And if this applies forever, then our hope is truly lost.
But as we can see, the context is not about future church history, but rather the context and focus of this chapter is the unfailing, never-ending, always-around perfect nature of love; for one can operate in the gifts, but if they have not love, it is for nothing.
In 2 Cor 14:4, and 12 we can understand that there are two types of spiritual gifts: those that edify ourselves, and those that edify and build up the church.
Why would anyone not want all that God offers to equip them for His work to build up the church? If gifts were given for the building up of the church then why would they have stopped unless it had accomplished its purpose of building a church? Is the church built-up? Of course not. Otherwise Jesus would have returned by now. The church is constantly growing, and it needs further building up until it comes to a point God is ready to come for her.
Acts 14:39 and 40 is Paul's charge to not disallow tongues, but to make sure that everything is done in an orderly way.
Mark 16:17 says "These signs shall follow all who believe..."
I consider myself as one "who believes."
John 14:16 says the Counselor (the Holy Spirit) wil be with you forever. Not for a few hundred years, not until the day the last apostle dies - but forever - and will be in those who are His disciples.
One who counsels is one who talks to you and shows you things. If his purpose is twofold: build up you and build up the church, then we should expect the Spirit of God to opereate in our lives in that manner; manners further defined by the Apostles about what they are in specifics: words of knowledge, words of wisdom, word of prophecy, healing, tongues, interpretation of tongues. And the fruit that these gifts would produce: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Such gifts are exercised under order whenever Christians come together, and they are handled by the offices given of God to some people he has called to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up.
Like a good soldier in the army of God, I need my equipping from the Spirit in order to do the work of God which I could not otherwise ordinarily do.
The spiritual fruit in my life which follows in accordance with Galation's description of the fruit of the spirit is a testament to me that the day I recieved the Holy Spirit's baptism of fire was the beginning of a whole new level of relationship with the Most High - a relationship He desires to have with all of us, if we are willing. And "willing" is the key word.
Because this topic is a nonessential Christian topic, I am moving it from the Round Tables and into the Workshop, if you'd like to continue it from there.
Schrack,
There are certainly different types of tongues mentioned in the bible.
The first type are the type of tongues for which there is no interpretation because someone else is able to understand it in their native language. This happened in Acts 2.
The second type is the type of tongues given for the edification of the church. Such a tongue requires an interpretation for it to make sense to those listening, hence the reason for Paul's instructions.
The third type is the type of tongues which your spirit gives praises to God as edification for yourself (which is why Paul said a tongue not interpreted only benefits the one speaking it and not anybody else).
The baptism of the Holy Spirit was often followed by people speaking in tongues, and no one in the early church was denied the Holy Spirit's baptism. Not even a Gentile Centurion and his entire household. If the Spirit was given only for doctrine-making, and not personal edification, where then does the role of Counselor come into play if the Holy Spirit is silent towards your own spiritual and emotional needs? Does he not speak to you as He did with thousands of others recorded in the bible? How does one hear God without the Holy Spirit - for it is indeed He (God Himself) who communicates to us in many ways.
How can one have a real relationship with something if they can't communicate with it?
The Word of God is not what is bound between two leather covers. The Word of God is living, and it is the Spirit of God, whom gives life, real words for real people. Just as easily as God speaks to me, he gives me other words for other people, and sometimes it is the interpretation of a tongue someone else has spoken. Tongues require people to step out in faith, not pride, for it is that faith of working with God which gives glorifies God - and tongues is just one of many incredible ways God has provided to not only build up our faith in Him, but to build up and edify his church.
In that same verse where Paul talks about prophecy ceasing, and tongues being stilled, he too says that knowledge will pass away. Let's reread the verse in 1 Cor 13:8
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
The point about this chapter is about the unfailing nature of love, and how love is the most important means of all, and the only one that lasts. Paul mentions that just as prophecies will cease, tongues stilled, so too will knowledge pass away. If the context of this verse means that prophecy and tongues will one day cease, never to be seen again, then so too one must accept that the same knowledge that accompanied prophecy and tongues (since knowledge is indeed listed in the same category listing here) will also cease with them. Now this context, if true, would mean that the doctrines and teachings themselves which were a result of having the gifts of the Holy Spirit, would in fact cease, never to be seen again. In a sense, it is a self-defeating reality. Without the Spiritual gifts, the knowledge and understanding those gifts bring will simply not be. And if this applies forever, then our hope is truly lost.
But as we can see, the context is not about future church history, but rather the context and focus of this chapter is the unfailing, never-ending, always-around perfect nature of love; for one can operate in the gifts, but if they have not love, it is for nothing.
In 2 Cor 14:4, and 12 we can understand that there are two types of spiritual gifts: those that edify ourselves, and those that edify and build up the church.
Why would anyone not want all that God offers to equip them for His work to build up the church? If gifts were given for the building up of the church then why would they have stopped unless it had accomplished its purpose of building a church? Is the church built-up? Of course not. Otherwise Jesus would have returned by now. The church is constantly growing, and it needs further building up until it comes to a point God is ready to come for her.
Acts 14:39 and 40 is Paul's charge to not disallow tongues, but to make sure that everything is done in an orderly way.
Mark 16:17 says "These signs shall follow all who believe..."
I consider myself as one "who believes."
John 14:16 says the Counselor (the Holy Spirit) wil be with you forever. Not for a few hundred years, not until the day the last apostle dies - but forever - and will be in those who are His disciples.
One who counsels is one who talks to you and shows you things. If his purpose is twofold: build up you and build up the church, then we should expect the Spirit of God to opereate in our lives in that manner; manners further defined by the Apostles about what they are in specifics: words of knowledge, words of wisdom, word of prophecy, healing, tongues, interpretation of tongues. And the fruit that these gifts would produce: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Such gifts are exercised under order whenever Christians come together, and they are handled by the offices given of God to some people he has called to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up.
Like a good soldier in the army of God, I need my equipping from the Spirit in order to do the work of God which I could not otherwise ordinarily do.
The spiritual fruit in my life which follows in accordance with Galation's description of the fruit of the spirit is a testament to me that the day I recieved the Holy Spirit's baptism of fire was the beginning of a whole new level of relationship with the Most High - a relationship He desires to have with all of us, if we are willing. And "willing" is the key word.
Because this topic is a nonessential Christian topic, I am moving it from the Round Tables and into the Workshop, if you'd like to continue it from there.