I was discipling...

Sanctum · Jan 12, 2006

To a homosexual male when I was prompted the following question:

"Where exactly in the bible does it say "you cant be gay""

I was trying to stress its importance (my main focus of the talk) so I brought up the verse in Leviticus 18:22 and I was prompted with some other verses in Leviticus that I myself violate.

Before I post all the verses that I recieved, I am also under the assumption that all sins in Gods eyes are the same. Sin is sin and there are no degrees of it. In fact I remember someone dieing for not paying Thithe... I think his wife also died.

So is lieing the same as being gay?

Here are some verses he gave me.
I work on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states that I should be put to death.

I east shellfish, and eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. I do not even know how to approch this??? Should I not approch the alter?

Hair: Lev. 19:27 ...?

He even said football was a sin... Lev. 11:6-8

Lev. 19:19 A lot of my clothes are Cotton / polyester???

Our discussion changed my point of view, I realized that I shouldn't really judge gay people for what they do, because I sin just as much.... I also relized that people get very outraged at gay people ( I did once too...) (for instance protest at gay pride marches et cetera (I think judging other is a sin too... Can this be clarified)

Thanks for the help in advance!!! :preach:

ebia · Jan 12, 2006

I was discipling...

To a homosexual male when I was prompted the following question

It's too easy to misread that as "I was disciplining a homosexual male..."

Sam Gamgee · Jan 12, 2006

ebia said:
It's too easy to misread that as "I was disciplining a homosexual male..."

What have you done, matching your shoes to your belt??? Bad gay!!!! No vogue magazine for one week!!! Now go up to your closet and don't come out until you understand why us breeders think it's a good idea to wear black shoes with a brown belt...

(obviously, I'm making a joke)

Sam Gamgee · Jan 12, 2006

Cleany said:
you have to wonder why people get so angry about gay people. perhaps they would be angry anyway and gay bashing is a popular way of expressing and venting that anger in some circles.

I've found that it's just a general intolerance that they have learned from their parents...

And that's fine... We're all intolerant of something... For me, I'm intolerant of brussel sprouts because my dad hated them.

Same kind of thing.

RenHoek · Jan 12, 2006

Mathew 19:

Have you not read that He who made F93 them at the beginning 'made them male and female,' F94 5 and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? F95 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."

I think Jesus makes it clear in the NT here as well.

I think when witnessing, we need to focus more on Gods unfailing love for the person. If they truly seek God, He will lead them where they need to be on the individual sins.

Sanctum · Jan 12, 2006

OK quoting NT verses is a good idea... The matt 19 verse doesn't see to apply to gay. Maybe marrage, but not Gays... Can you all help me find some NT verses that apply?

RenHoek · Jan 13, 2006

Leviticus 18

20 Moreover you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor's wife, to defile yourself with her. 21 And you shall not let any of your descendants pass through the fire to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord. 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. 23 Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion.

I understand the shellfish argument, but homosexuality is surrounded by other things in the Mosaic law that are carried over. By the same rationale, is sex with animals OK?

Romans 1:
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

This, to me, means it was against the perfect nature God created.

Matthew 19

4 And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made F93 them at the beginning 'made them male and female,' F94 5 and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? F95 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."

To me, Jesus is making velar the plan God had from the beginning. Whay would He say male and female. Why would He not have said people or left it gender-neutral?

Either way, everyone will take what he or she will from scripture. America affords us our opinions. As I said before, it seems clear to me that Gods intention for sex was for a man and woman in marriage.

To the original point of the post. Again I say focus on Gods love and let the person you are speaking to seek God for the answers.

Sam Gamgee · Jan 13, 2006

GregorytheGood said:
I agree wholeheartedly that it has NOTHING to do with Christianity, but that it is learned intolerance. BUT....
....I must add that irrationally opposing brussel sprouts is much different from irrationally opposing people.
With Love,
Gregory

Brussel Sprouts are the devils vegetable.

RenHoek · Jan 13, 2006

Sam Gamgee said:
Brussel Sprouts are the devils vegetable.

Dont forget his fruit, grapefruit. Vile citrus :sick:

DevotiontoBible · Jan 13, 2006

Stinker said:
In the deepest study concerning this issue I have found that the Scriptures do not address 'homosexuality' .

You didn't look very deep. Right here it plainly say's what homosexuals do is wrong and are going to hell for it: 1 Cor. 6:9-10 (NLT)
Don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, [10] thieves, greedy people, drunkards, abusers, and swindlersnone of these will have a share in the Kingdom of God.

RenHoek · Jan 13, 2006

DevotiontoBible said:
You didn't look very deep. Right here it plainly say's what homosexuals do is wrong and are going to hell for it: 1 Cor. 6:9-10 (NLT)
Don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, [10] thieves, greedy people, drunkards, abusers, and swindlersnone of these will have a share in the Kingdom of God.

Prepare yourself for the attacks on the translation on this verse.

fragmentsofdreams · Jan 13, 2006

DevotiontoBible said:
The pro homosexual attacks on this translation is purely irrational.

Alternative translations may or may not be wrong, but they are hardly irrational.

DevotiontoBible · Jan 13, 2006

fragmentsofdreams said:
Alternative translations may or may not be wrong, but they are hardly irrational.

There are no alternative translations that do not carry the English idea of a homosexual for this verse.

fragmentsofdreams · Jan 13, 2006

DevotiontoBible said:
There are no alternative translations that do not carry the English idea of a homosexual for this verse.

Most if not all agree that the word involves same-sex sexual activity, but there is a wide variety in the scope of the activity, from particular activities like pederasty, temple prostitution, and male prostitution to homosexual activity in general.

DevotiontoBible · Jan 13, 2006

fragmentsofdreams said:
Most if not all agree that the word involves same-sex sexual activity, but there is a wide variety in the scope of the activity, from particular activities like pederasty, temple prostitution, and male prostitution to homosexual activity in general.

All of these are homosexual activities. There is no homosexual activity allowed of any kind in the Bible. All referenced homosexual activity is always condemned. Only heterosexual, monogamous sex in the context of marriage is condoned. All Bible scholars who have translated the word into English have translated it to be unqualified homosexual activity in general.

Sanctum · Jan 13, 2006

"1 Cor. 6:9-10 ...sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, [10] thieves, greedy people, drunkards, abusers, and swindlers..."

Beside this begs a "Holier than thou"

I personally am not perfect... As a college student I drink alot and do some other college stuff (hard to express it here :/ ) like premaritial sex... And on the note of adulterers, i think there is a verse that stats if you even look/think about another woman (that way) while married you have already sinned.

Perhaps I should just drop the gay topic alltogether and focus on just teaching the word. I mean he can be a Christian like myself, even if he is gay, he just has to work on that aspect of his sin.

He and I aren't very different. We're both sinners. :/

Discipling is hard work :/

Wow the more I think about "1 Cor. 6:9-10" no one will goto heaven... :sigh:

RenHoek · Jan 13, 2006

Perhaps I should just drop the gay topic alltogether and focus on just teaching the word. I mean he can be a Christian like myself, even if he is gay, he just has to work on that aspect of his sin.

Precisely.

He and I aren't very different. We're both sinners. :/

Arent we all. :doh:

DevotiontoBible · Jan 13, 2006

Sanctum said:
I mean he can be a Christian like myself, even if he is gay, he just has to work on that aspect of his sin.

...

Wow the more I think about "1 Cor. 6:9-10" no one will goto heaven...

That text say's that a homosexual is not a Christian. The two are mutually exclusive. You are also wrong in that the text say's in v 11 that Christians are going to heaven because they don't commit homosexual acts anymore.

Apples of Gold · Jan 13, 2006

Interesting topic.

fragmentsofdreams · Jan 13, 2006

DevotiontoBible said:
All of these are homosexual activities. There is no homosexual activity allowed of any kind in the Bible. All referenced homosexual activity is always condemned. Only heterosexual, monogamous sex in the context of marriage is condoned. All Bible scholars who have translated the word into English have translated it to be unqualified homosexual activity in general.

They are homosexual activities, but if for example it condemns male prostitution, citing it in condemnation of non-prostitution homosexual activity and all lesbian activity looks as foolish as condemning a married couple based on a prohibition of heterosexual prostitution.

Translators do not agree on how to translate it. Some say homosexual, some say sodomite, some say sodomite with a footnote saying they mean the older partner in a pederastic relationship, and some say male prostitute. A translator would tell you that word was probably coined by Paul and is difficult to translate due to the lack of any contemporary usage to provide additional context.

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