A struggle to identify Christianity

You definitely have a point. It really bothers me when Christians are blamed for the Crusades, the Inquisition, etc.

Personally, it helps me to keep in my mind the difference between "nominal" Christians (in name only) and "true" Christians.

By the latter, I mean those who are born again and are bound for Heaven. Those who have made the decision to trust in Christ alone to pay for all their sins on the cross and to get them to Heaven, without relying on their own goodness or promises. (see signature verses below). John 3:16 says "believe", not "believe and behave". Hopefully, true Christians will behave, but not all do.

That's what sometimes makes it so hard to tell the two groups apart. To differentiate, some people refer to true Christians as "believers" or "born again". Makes it clearer.

Aloha in Jesus

I agree with Beth. Christianity is a religion, but really, Jesus came to give us a relationship with God, not a religion. Religion is divisive and man's rules, but God looks at the heart. What I hate about "religious labels" is that they divide. Yes, Christianity has a history, but unfortunately, much of it is attributed to zealous people who really weren't Christ follows (i.e. the Inquisition, Crusades, etc.). Jesus said you would know his followers by their fruit.

mhhh. What were Christians historically? Well, already in the beginnings of the church, there were fights going on about what Christians should believe, how they should live, I think. (It becomes kinda clear when you the letters of the new testament)
What seems to be conveyed as a/the? crucial part of Christianity in these letters is the belief that Jesus Christ is the Lord, that He's died for the one's sins and rose again.
I don't know in which centuries that was, but early Christians had this secret sign of a fish: In old greek, fish is = Ichtys (sp.??). The first letters were supposed to stand for "Jesus Christ God's son saviour" (as far as I remember!).
So this can be seen as an early creed of Christianity.
Hope this helps a bit... keep asking if you wanna know anything more =)

oh, I might be able to look up some more "solid" definitions later...

bethdinsmore said:

You definitely have a point. It really bothers me when Christians are blamed for the Crusades, the Inquisition, etc.

Personally, it helps me to keep in my mind the difference between "nominal" Christians (in name only) and "true" Christians.

By the latter, I mean those who are born again and are bound for Heaven. Those who have made the decision to trust in Christ alone to pay for all their sins on the cross and to get them to Heaven, without relying on their own goodness or promises. (see signature verses below). John 3:16 says "believe", not "believe and behave". Hopefully, true Christians will behave, but not all do.

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And James makes it quite clear that true belief will result in behaviour, and that those who's belief does not result in appropropriate behaviour have a belief no better than the demons.

mez1 said:

How can we even begin to speak about “Christians” in general terms as if those worthy of the label were that easily identified? It would be, in my opinion, of some benefit to first establish solid definition/s of what Christianity is collectively and historically. In this way we do not become so easily lost in arbitrariness and perhaps we could then possibly glean some measure of understanding in that which is orthodox and that which is not?


Perhaps the pluralistic west….with all its levels of protest and innovations has thrown the baby out with the bath water so to speak. Should we consider looking east for answers and continuity? To surrender our self appointed authority and spoon fed world views for something legitimate? After all Christianity is a religion of eastern descent?

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If you look to the east, then the obvious answer is the one CF has already arrived at - the creed commonly known as the Niceen Creed.

Its wrong to 'label' people to begin with, Christian is something that you are in your heart. Its YOUR 'bond' between you and God,therefore you do not have to justify your Christianity to any human being, i never experienced that another person would 'determine' for me who i am and what i stand for,that's between me and God who knows me better then even my own mother does.

mez1 said:

How can we even begin to speak about “Christians” in general terms as if those worthy of the label were that easily identified?

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Great comments. Mainstream Christianity has been responsible for such bloodshed and hatred throughout history it seems strange that anyone would want to be associated with such a group today. The Crusades, witch hunts, South American massacres, right up to colonial invasions, apartheid and racial segregation in the US were all done in the name of Christianity and backed by mainstream Christians at the time. [The latter of these were also overcome largely by the efforts of radical Christians] Today, mainstream Christianity continues to be associated with homophobia, racism and bigotry.

However, I still recognise that the fear and hatred present in all of the above is not the 'good news' Jesus came to bring. Chrstianity in the end is human, and will never reach the ideals it offers. But there are worthy ideals to aim for - and for those Christians who do recognise and try to live them out, the rest is ugly baggage. Unwanted, but present nonetheless - always reminding us not to get to sure about what is right and steering us far from self-righteousness.

mez1 said:

How can we even begin to speak about “Christians” in general terms as if those worthy of the label were that easily identified? It would be, in my opinion, of some benefit to first establish solid definition/s of what Christianity is collectively and historically. In this way we do not become so easily lost in arbitrariness and perhaps we could then possibly glean some measure of understanding in that which is orthodox and that which is not?


Perhaps the pluralistic west….with all its levels of protest and innovations has thrown the baby out with the bath water so to speak. Should we consider looking east for answers and continuity? To surrender our self appointed authority and spoon fed world views for something legitimate? After all Christianity is a religion of eastern descent?

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i believe looking Eastward is a starting place. after that, i guess it all depends on how things go, and that will be individually.

but i think what your asking is a great thing, but i believe it's nothing new. and it seems we have gotten no where. we've gotten what at specific times were the most popular desires. i suspect nothing will change over time too much. changes here and there. sounds a bit apathetic, i know, but i think it's also realistic. generations will pass, a new breed of believers will come, heresy will become orthodoxy. there will be a minority standing by the old way, cause it fits their view of reality. there will be the struggle between the majority and the minority. only details seem to change.

sorry if i didn't give you the answer you were looking for. seems to be your on the right track. keep it up and may God Bless you! <><