Coming!! ...A world of chaos!

Big Mouth Nana · Jan 17, 2004

Brain Damage said:
Girls please take notice!

2 peter 1:20 : knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,

That's right Brain Damage. That is why that there are more and more Christians seeing this then ever before. I have believed this for 30+ years, and the more this nation goes into the trash, removing God etc. I'm firmly convinced.

Brain Damage · Jan 17, 2004

Girls the babylon spoken of is yet future , why are you relating it for today .

Alot of christians believe America is about to colapse economicly.

Evee · Jan 17, 2004

Well because it has not happened yet so it is still future. It just seems that *THIS IS LAST DAYS AS WE HAVE KNOWN THEM.*
I hope I am wrong.

Evee · Jan 17, 2004

I don't see how we can do anything but collapse.
Spending all this money to rebuild Iraq.
Lets not forget all the billions that will be spent on this Mars and Moon project.

Big Mouth Nana · Jan 17, 2004

Brain Damage said:
Girls the babylon spoken of is yet future , why are you relating it for today .
Have you noticed how the moral decline has happened in this nation just over the past 10 years, how God is being removed little by little? Anything can happen to this nation in just a matter of days, weeks or months. Look at 9-11. If our president signs this law into affect, accepting gay marriages, and with everything else that he is trying to do with the roadmap to peace, then you are looking into the face of "you know who"!!

Alot of christians believe America is about to colapse economicly.

Yes, we are. I live in California. We are about bankrupt, and we have an actor as Governor, lol. This state, and nation are going down the tubes. Americia fits the description of Babylon in Rev 18 to the "T".

GodsWatchman · Jan 17, 2004

By His Grace said:
Yes, we are. I live in California. We are about bankrupt, and we have an actor as Governor, lol. This state, and nation are going down the tubes. Americia fits the description of Babylon in Rev 18 to the "T".

All politicians are nothing but Actors. Its just that some have been in movies and some have not.

Politics: Poly-as in "many" + tics-as in blood sucking leaches.

tulc · Jan 17, 2004

and we have an actor as Governor

...and we know what happened with the last governor of Cali. that was an actor.

tulc

Brain Damage · Jan 17, 2004

By His Grace said:
Yes, we are. I live in California. We are about bankrupt, and we have an actor as Governor, lol. This state, and nation are going down the tubes. Americia fits the description of Babylon in Rev 18 to the "T".

Yes fits the description when you place you own interpretation upon it , but it's not what the bible says.

There is a strong belief that America will go down soon and that the EU will become strong. , and thus we will enter the END times.

Oooppps I said that naughty word "END TIMES" , the preterists will be on my back in no time ....lol

Evee · Jan 17, 2004

GodsWatchman said:
All politicians are nothing but Actors. Its just that some have been in movies and some have not.

Politics: Poly-as in "many" + tics-as in blood sucking leaches.

Hey come to think of it Ronald Reagan was an actor before he became president...How weird is that..lol

Brain Damage · Jan 17, 2004

GodsWatchman said:
All politicians are nothing but Actors. Its just that some have been in movies and some have not.

Politics: Poly-as in "many" + tics-as in blood sucking leaches.

LOL.....way to go bro! :clap:

Big Mouth Nana · Jan 17, 2004

Brain Damage said:
Yes fits the description when you place you own interpretation upon it , but it's not what the bible says.
Who does the bible say is Babylon then, or what nation fits it in your thinking, if not the US?

There is a strong belief that America will go down soon and that the EU will become strong. , and thus we will enter the END times.
I agree. We are getting there rapidly.

Oooppps I said that naughty word "END TIMES" , the preterists will be on my back in no time ....lol

I think they left Brain Damage. Either they were bored with our dialogue, or God removed them, rofl.

Brain Damage · Jan 17, 2004

QUOTE Grace - Who does the bible say is Babylon then, or what nation fits it in your thinking, if not the US?

Well thats what i was gonna do the other day , but you and Trish were gonna produce your own interpretation of it so i didn't bother.

The bible interprets itself.

Big Mouth Nana · Jan 17, 2004

Brain Damage said:
QUOTE Grace - Who does the bible say is Babylon then, or what nation fits it in your thinking, if not the US?

Well thats what i was gonna do the other day , but you and Trish were gonna produce your own interpretation of it so i didn't bother.

The bible interprets itself.

Brain!!!! You said that you didn't want to do alot of reading, so I thought, OKIE DOKIE THEN. The bible is where I got it, lol.

Brain Damage · Jan 17, 2004

By His Grace said:
Brain!!!! You said that you didn't want to do alot of reading, so I thought, OKIE DOKIE THEN. The bible is where I got it, lol.

Yeah i did say that because i didn't want to read a lot of personal interpretations.

I'm only interested in what the bible says , so there!....lol

Big Mouth Nana · Jan 17, 2004

Brain Damage said:
Yeah i did say that because i didn't want to read a lot of personal interpretations.

I'm only interested in what the bible says , so there!....lol[/QUOTE

Brain Damage · Jan 17, 2004

QUOTE Grace -

..Well gee thanks Grace!...and heres one back at ya ...

Now do you want to get serious or not...lol

Big Mouth Nana · Jan 17, 2004

Brain Damage said:
QUOTE Grace -

..Well gee thanks Grace!...and heres one back at ya ...

Now do you want to get serious or not...lol

Rofl. You win, I can't top that one...well, I could, but not on here, lol.

Brain...my sister went ahead and posted some of the info. anyway. If you have a printer, just print it off and read it at your conveiniance. It's a very interesting read. I wouldn't stear ya wrong, .

Trish1947 · Jan 17, 2004

BRAIN DAMAGE:

Get yourself a cup of coffee this might take awhile. :pray:

Now, let us look at all of the key character traits found in the various applied prophecies of this future Babylon. The following is a list of those traits that describe and therefore help us to understand and recognize this future Babylon that do NOT fit the theory of Rome as being this future Babylon.

#1. The Jewish Population Issue Jeremiah 50:8, 25; Jeremiah 51: 6, 45; Isaiah 48:20 and also Revelation 18:4 are all references to Jewish people living in this future mystery Babylon. In the ancient Babylon, from the 6th Century BC till well into the early Church Age, the majority of the Jewish population lived in ancient Babylon. It was the home to most of the worlds Jews even in the time of Christ. Today, the largest population of Jewish people is found in the United States. The next two nations Israel (home to the 2nd largest Jewish population) and Russia (home to the 3rd largest Jewish population) combined do not equal the population of Jewish people living in America. Rome on the other hand has some Jews living in its borders but not enough, nor prominent enough to match the criteria. Therefore, this trait alone disqualifies the theory of Rome = Mystery Babylon.

#2. The chief city of Mystery Babylon is a "DEEP WATER PORT CITY"!!! Revelation 18: 17-19. This passage tells us that merchant ships are standing off the shoreline of Babylon. These ships have either just unloaded in the port city of Mystery Babylon, or are waiting to dock when the fiery judgment hits. These ship captains, crew and passengers are witnesses to the destruction. Question? Why would these folks be standing on deck of merchant ships unless there were Port facilities in this city? Answer. The city is a port city. In this day and age, especially by virtue of the list of commodities that are traded in "mystery Babylon" see Revelation 18:11-13 one thing can be noted this city, to have this kind of merchandise coming in by shipsmust be a DEEP WATER SEAPORT CITY. Why? For ships of today to bring such merchandise requires the ships to be large commercial freighters. These ships require deep-water port facilities to dock and unload/load. They must have a harbor with large depths.

Now here is the problem for the "Rome = Babylon" theorists. Rome is NOT a deepwater seaport, period!!! Ancient Rome, we are told must be the only literal interpretation. However, Ancient Rome was not a Seaport either. Rome is landlocked.

#3. It is the KEY Commercial Nation and Engine of Wealth for the Worlds Economy. Isaiah 47:15. Revelation 17:2; Revelation 18: 3, 9, 11-13, 15, 16, 17-19, 22, 23, & 19:2. Here in these passages we see just what relationship Babylon enjoys with the rest of the world. Here she is clearly the critical factor in the world economy. When she goes down in flameswhat is the lament?? "What was like unto this mega city?" "Who will buy our goods now that she is gone"?? The answer is that no one will be able to buy the products of the worlds merchants. What does this tell us??? It should be a clear warning indicator that whoever this nation is the rest of the world depends on her for buying their merchandise. With her destruction, there is no one left to buy their goods. That tells us just how vital this nation is. That means that this nation is the engine of wealth for the world.

Now, Rome (nor Italy) does NOT and can not fit that roleat least not in the next 30 years, unless the rest of the world is wiped out first. Rome and Italy have nearly gone broke several times. They have the shakiest economy in all of Europe, save for other communist bloc nations. Once again, we see a character trait that Rome does not exemplify in anyway, shape nor form.

#4-#21 These are 18 commodities in a list that are the chief trading products as cited in Rev 18:11-13 for which the merchants and sailors later lament that no one will buy their products anymore! Rev 18:12-13 provides a list of Gold, Silver and Copper. Now on these items alone there is more Gold traded in New York City on the COMEX in one day than in all the rest of the world, combined !!! The same is true for Silver and Copper also. It is true for Crude Oil. In fact, the volumes of trade are so heavy that in one day alone, there is more gold traded in one day than had been traded in all of human history up until 1974 when Gold trading was allowed to be done on a futures contractual basis. That is how massive and how dominant the USA and NYC are in the commodities trading markets. Revelation 18: 12 & 13, lists many other commodities as well including grains and livestock.

Now, Chicago is the host city for such record trading in that arena. (It too is a port city on Lake Michigan). The fact of the matter is this Rome/Italy has one of the shakiest economies in Europe It has no ability to be the economic engine of wealth for the whole world. If Rome vanished from the face of the earth todayit would not even cause a ripple in the Worlds economy. However, if the USA vanished today it would decimate the worlds economy and bankrupt every nation on earth, instantly. In essence, there would be no one left to buy the foreigners goods. Thats because no one else wants to import goodsthey only want to export. The USA was the big promoter of international trade and promoted imports. Iraq plays no such role in the world economy. She is too poor to do so.

#22. Leading center of imports and consumption. Revelation 18: 11, 17-19. These passages tell us the economic picture of this nation. Note that this nation is not only involved in the trade of these products, but that she is also the leading importer because when she is destroyed"no one buys" their merchandise anymore. The folks lamenting are the international merchants who export goods to this mystery Babylon. Therefore, she is the leading import nation. She also then is by virtue of her importer status the chief consuming nation. This also is not a description of Rome or Italy. Rome/Italy has no such status in the world today or for tomorrow or the foreseeable future! It is this aspect which negates the Rome = Babylon theorybecause the contention is that we are living in the "last days" and the fulfillment of the end-times prophecies are at hand. IF this is true, and I assert that it indeed is truethen how can Rome, Italy or even Iraq match these character traits in so short a span of time??? Answer: she cant. She is not the nation being described. There is one nation that does fit all of these traits, and then many more traits that are also listed. That nation is the United States of America.

#23. She is also a manufacturing nation. Revelation 18: 22. This passage tells us about her manufacturing no longer being found in her after the judgment. This tells us she was a manufacturing nation before the judgment. Rome/Italy is not a nation noted for being a world leader in manufacturing. How many folks do you know drive an Italian car here in the United States? There aren't that many Europeans driving Italian cars either as a relative percentage.

#24. Center for Merchandising and Marketing. Revelation 18: 3, 23; 19:2. Her merchants were the mega-merchants of the earth. This again does not fit the character traits of Rome or Italy. It does fit the picture of America.

#25. Known as the Worlds "policeman". Jeremiah 50:23 gives us a Hebrew idiom, "hammer of the whole earth". It had been used at one time to describe the way the empires of Persia, Greece and Rome had applied their power to keep the world at peace. Today, after the decline and fall of the Iron Curtain, major news media referred to America as the worlds policeman, in the same kind of role that the Hebrew idiom references. Rome or Italy does not fit this role.

#26. Known for "showing the flag" or "gunboat diplomacy". Isaiah 18:1-2 Here again, 2 Hebrew idioms for the idea of a nations navy showing its power. The phrase in verse 1 relates to the idea of "air travel". The first phrase of verse 2"that sends ambassadors by the sea" another Hebrew idiom for when ancient naval powers would send warships to "show the flag" of friendship or threaten war to unfriendly nations or cities. Today, one nation engages in such actions. The USA does send out naval units usually as aircraft carrier battle groups. The notion of verse 1 with air travel combined with verse 2 and the naval aspect, thus combines to send a notion of naval and air power or suggesting aircraft carriers!!! Rome has no military of any kind. Italy has very limited military power. Her naval power is especially limited to Home waters.

#27. Noted for its elegant luxurious lifestyles, refined, rich lifestyles. Isaiah 47: 1-8; Revelation 17: 4-5; 18: 2 24, This does not match up with Rome. Rome is not capable of reaching such levels of wealthy living standards in our lifetime. It's always fighting perpetual rounds of inflation bordering at times near hyperinflation levels.

#28. Extremely Wealthy Jeremiah 51:13 Revelation 18: 2-19. Rome isn't that wealthy.

#29. Sensual, Materialistic lifestyle. Isaiah 47: 8; Revelation 18:14. Now this one might be open to debate.

#30. The Highest Living Standards Isaiah 47:1 Revelation 18: 14. Italy does not enjoy any standard near the levels of the US or most other nations of Europe.

#31. Intoxicating high-society lifestyle as a world example to emulate

Revelation 17:2; Revelation 18: 3, 14, 23. Again, this might be debatable.

#32. Elegant, Sumptuous lifestyle. Revelation 18: 14, 23. Again debatable as to whether Rome and Italy might be said to have this feature. But not really on the basis of the average citizen.

#33. Noted for its bright gaudy-colored lights and nightlife with round the-clock partying. Revelation 18:14. Note the words "dainty" and "goodly". Dainty is a word in Greek that connotes to 24-hour parties and is connoted with orgies and debauchery. The word for "goodly" is the Greek word "lampra" from which we get the English word for lamp. In this case it carries the idea of bright, gaudy-colored lights, with idea of "glitzy" lights. The bright lights of Broadway or Times Square?? Or perhaps even Las Vegas?? While Rome might have some lights, its not reached the levels of New York City or Las Vegas, etc.

#34. Noted for its Drugs and Drug use. Isaiah 47: 9, 12. Revelation 18:23 Do we even need to comment on this one???? I think not the text clearly speaks for itself on this one. This should be a "no-brainer". Even the Italian Mafia is no longer the big kingpin in the drug world. That belongs to other cultures now.

#35. Noted for its culture. Revelation 18:14, 22 Okay, some might want to debate thatbut you don't see a lot of Italian movies winning Oscars, or its music dominating radio stations around the world, or its TV programs in syndication around the world. It's not world leader in developing new art. Yes, it does dominate the world of opera, but the world does not pay much attention to opera.

#36. Noted for being Wasteful, Extravagant. Rev 18: 3, 7, 9, 14, 15;

implied in Rev 17: 2. Here again, we've got another "no-brainer." Texas alone matches most nations and that would probably include Italy and Rome.

#37. Massive Population. Rev. 18:15. And Revelation 17: 1, 15. Again another "no-brainer." The text doesn't claim that Babylon has the most. It simply notes that she is 'big' or mega in size including population.

#38. A land of immigrants Jeremiah 50:16; 51:13; Rev. 17:1, 15. Well, with the Statue of Liberty as a symbol there is no nation that has more appeal for immigration. Not many line up to want to immigrate to Italy.

#39. Unique and awe-inspiring beginning in its birth & right up to its demise. Isaiah 18: 2 While many nations have an interesting beginning, none have the kind of beginning that America had.

#40. Remarkably different heritage. Isaiah 18:2 See #39 above.

#41. Respected-envied and yet HATED by the whole world also. Isa. 18:2 No nation has this status within the family of nations other than the USA. "Yankee go home" does that ring a bell? Yet, remember most of the world envies and respects the USA.

#43. Powerful and Oppressive Isaiah 18:2 Do we need to talk about all the military adventures the US has engaged in since the end of World War 2? When

did you last hear of Italy or Rome bombing anybody? When was the last time you heard about the Italian Pacific fleet in maneuvers at the same time its Atlantic fleet was conducting exercises? When was the last time Italy engaged in naval exercises or 'gun boat diplomacy'?

#44. Land of Rebels in its birth Jeremiah 51: 1; Isaiah 47: 9.

#45. Cosmopolitan and Urban Jeremiah 50:32

#46. Land of Agriculture. Jeremiah 50: 16 Okay when was the last time you saw farms in Rome itself? I'd like to know how much wheat, oats, corn, rice, etc that is grown in the city of Rome? I can just see a Wheat combine harvesting all around the Vatican. Uh huh, sure!

#47. An International City. Revelation 17: 18; 18:15. Well there are several cities that could fit that category.

#48. Architecture, buildings and skyline. Isaiah 13:22 Now the Rome theorists might want to argue for Rome's skyline and architecture so I'll be generous and allow a "tie" on this onegiving it a maybe or maybe not.

#49. Land of Many waters. (fresh waters) Jeremiah 51:13, 36, 42; Isa 18:1,2

Definitely not Rome. This is another city and nation where you don't drink the water that's why they drink wine so much. The fresh water is poor and limited.

#50. Where the worlds leaders "stream" to meet. Jer. 51:44; Rev. 17:18. Rome is NOT where all the world's leaders meet regularly. The only place that happens is at the UN in New York City, at least once every year. Not Rome, nor anywhere else.

#51. Last of the Super powers. Jeremiah 50:12; Rev 17:18; and in the Revelation 18:18 passage "what city is like the mega city"also verse 19Rome is definitely NOT a super power. No nation has ever had the power militarily and economically that the USA has had, especially in a percentage relationship to the rest of the world. Only ancient Babylon comes close, (before humanity had spread out) but ancient Babylon, to the best of our knowledge never sent spacecraft or men to the moon.

#52. No Fear of Invasion. Isaiah 47:5, 8; Revelation 18: 7-- Italy is concerned about Libya and Moammar Khaddafy although not as much as 10-12 years ago.

#53. Defenses reach up to Outer Space--Jeremiah 51:53. Since when did Italy or Rome ever have an astronaut program? Or a space program for that matter.

#54. Occult aspects Isaiah 47: 9, 12,13.

#55. Alliances/Treaties allowing physical military bases of operation for

the Satanic forces. Revelation 18: 2.

#56. Its national symbol Robed woman with a cup-like container in one hand that smells like natural gas odors inside the containerand the woman is connected to water and immigrationand is considered to be a mother-figure to spiritual prostitutiona.k.a. Ishtar, the mother of literal and physical prostitutes within religious worship centers. That is what the Babylonian goddess Ishtar was, the promoter of physical prostitution salvation by sex have sex with a temple priest or priestess and you are purified from sin. And of course you pay a gift offering for this salvation activity. Ishtar was never a physical mother but rather a madam over the priestesses. Ishtar was never married and never had a childbut she was called "mother" of the temple priestesses. Kind of like a "house mother."

Now having said all of this Im referring to the Statue of Liberty. In my book, "America, The Babylon" I explain the meticulous research involved that shows that the Statue of Liberty is in fact the brain-child of the sculptor Bartholdis idea to create an image of the goddess Liberty of Rome. I then show how the Roman goddess was in fact borrowed by the Romans from Babylonand in reality they worshipped Ishtar the goddess of Babylon but the Romans changed the name to Libertas in Latin, (Liberty, in English). So that, the Statue of Liberty is actually a pagan Idol image of Ishtar, the woman described in Revelation 17. If you dont believe itLook at Revelation 17: 4 & 5. Note the word for abomination. Bdelugma is from the root word Bdeoh. The Strongs Code #946 " a foul thing, detestable, usually of idolsthe root word means to "break wind", or to "pass gas" indicating the odor smells like natural gas.

Well, speaking of natural gasdid you know that the Torch-cup of the Statue of Liberty burns an eternal flamefueled by smelly natural gas? Also, of course the Statue is referred to as the Mother of Exilesan immigrant connectionjust as the woman of Rev. 17: 1, 15 is also connected to immigrants. So too was Ishtar she was the goddess of personal freedom and an encouragement to immigrants.

AND LAST BUT BY NO MEANS THE LEAST THE MOST LITERAL OF ALL:

#57. A Populated city named Babylon with a Deepwater Port.

Revelation 17:18; & 18: 11-19 Did you know that when ships coming in to the harbor facilities of New York City make their final approach to the Harbor channel shipping lanesthey have to come in from the south heading due North straight for a spot on Long Island called BABYLON !!! Thats right, the city of Babylon, which features a tall water tower that ship captains use to navigate directly into the harbor channel and they come within 200 to 300 yards of the shore before turning west to head into the port. It is from this vantage point that I believe Revelation 18: 17-19 takes place. From this vantage pointon the deck of a shipone could quite easily read the letters of the name Babylon on the city water tower!!!

Talk about literal?? Now that is indeed literal. This is something that theorists who promote the Rome = Babylon idea cant match, because Rome is not a Deepwater seaportit's so far away from the ocean that it can not possibly fit the description of Revelation 18: 17-19 in no way. But the USA can and especially its chief city a seaport named NYC/Babylon. Also, Babylon, Long Island derived its name because of it was founded by immigrant Jews in 1872and the groups rabbis chose the name almost prophetically, because they believed it would be home to a new diaspora.

Why would they think this? Because rabbinical opinions had held that ancient Babylons power would be moved Zechariah 5: 5-11 and Isaiah 18:1 tells us what direction it would be moving. Isaiah 18:1 says that the spirit of Babylon would move west of the most outermost boundaries of ancient Babylons western-most border, beyond the rivers of Ethiopia and Egypt. [That is what is meant by the KJV term "Ethiopia"] By virtue of Isaiahs point of observation being from Jerusalemthen the direction of movement was westward past Egyptbeyond the most outer of Babylons oldest boundaries meaning the occultic power that fueled Babylon would move and take up residence west of Egypt and Ethiopia in the end times. Rome is NOT west of Egypt and Ethiopia. Thus, again we have Rome ruled out of the picture by the character traits.

Thus, scripture itself negates the Rome = Babylon theory. Why will our "expert" scholars not accept the scriptural passages on this? Perhaps its pride or ignorance, I would suspect. Clearly, the only literal interpretation for this subject of "Mystery Babylon" from scripture is that it literally cannot be Rome. Why?

See and read again all 57 reasons that are listed above plus the 3 misconceptions that I show to be in error. Also follow up by reading other articles in this magazine issue and read the book, "America, The Babylon." Therefore, the only logical answer to the question: "Who is Mystery Babylon?" is America? This researcher now believes this to be the case. If you have read Volume 1 of "America, The Babylon" and studied both the material in that book plus continue to study the material in this book, you too will no doubt come to a similar conclusion.

This is just a small study, there is much more.

ikester · Jan 17, 2004

Good Post....many bibical scholars agree that America fits the bill....

Mongoose · Jan 17, 2004

Um... This already IS a world of chaos... I can't imagine it any worse..

Coming!! ...A world of chaos!

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loves "SO'S YER MOM!! posts!

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So it goes.

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