All about Calendars - How did our calendar change?

Sephania

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I know there is another thread about the calendar in our forum somewhere but I can't find it, this place is worse than the black holes of space. So I decided to start a new thread just about calendars. We can talk about any calendar here, but specifically how they came to be and what that means in reference to us regarding how G-d's calendar is given in the Torah.

Please take the time to read through this, it will help answer many questions you may have had for a long time, especially if you are a student of prophecy.


Bon had mentioned in another thread this:
Hezekiah adds 1 month every 6 years.
And some info from safehaven.com which talks about a shift in the year 701BC of the orbit of Mars and the Earth, thus lengthening the earths rotation around the sun by 51/4 more days. It just so happens that King Hezekiahs reign was from 726-695 ( approx) so it would have happened during his reign. This would put this event between the fall of Israel and the fall of Judah.
 

Sephania

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Is Today's Jewish Calendar The One God Gave To Moses?

Genesis 7:11 states that on the second month, the seventeeth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. Genesis 8:3,4 states that after 150 days the waters abated and the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month upon the mountains of Ararat. From the second to the seventh month we count 5 months. This means that each month was 30 days long as Moses understood it when he wrote the book of Genesis.

The month of the Israelites, from the fifteenth to the eighth century before the present era, was equal to thirty days, and twelve months comprised a year; there is no mention of months shorter than thirty days, nor of a year longer than twelve months. [Bold added for emphasis. HWS] That the month was composed of thirty days is evidenced by Deuteronomy 34:8 and 21:13, and Numbers 20:29, where mourning for the dead is ordered for "a full month," and is carried on for thirty days. The story of the Flood, as given in Genesis, reckons in months of thirty days; it says that one hundred and fifty days passed between the seventeenth day of the second month and the seventeenth day of the seventh month. The composition of this text apparently dates from the time between the Exodus and the upheaval of the days of Uzziah

The Hebrews observed lunar months. This is attested to by the fact that the new-moon festivals were of great importance in the days of Judges and Kings. The new moon festival anciently stood at least on a level with that of the Sabbath. As these (lunar) months were thirty days long, with no months of twenty-nine days in between, and as the year was composed of twelve such months, with no additional days or intercalated months, the Bible exegetes could find no way of reconciling the three figures: 354 days, of twelve lunar months of twenty-nine and a half days each; 360 days, or a multiplex of twelve times thirty; and 365¼ days, the present length of the year.

Besides getting the right understanding of the courses in the temple wrong at the beginning of the article this explains the different civilizations and how they all had 360day years, just like the 360 degrees of a circle. http://www.hshideaway.com/chap19.html

The reason for the universal identity of time reckoning between the fifteenth and the eighth centuries lay in the actual movement of the earth on its axis and along its orbit, and in the revolution of the moon, during that historical period. The length of a lunar revolution must have been almost exactly 30 days, and the length of the year apparently did not vary from 360 days by more than a few hours.
Then a series of catastrophes occurred that changed the axis and the orbit of the earth and the orbit of the moon, and the ancient year, after going through a period marked by disarranged seasons, settled into a "slow-moving year" (Seneca) of 365 days, 5 hours, 48 minutes, 46 seconds, a lunar month being equal to 29 days, 12 hours, 44 minutes, 2.7 seconds, mean synodical period.

As a result of repeated perturbations, the earth changed from an orbit of 360 days’ duration to one of 365¼ days, the days probably not being exactly equal in both cases. The month changed from thirty to twenty-nine and a half days. These were the values at the beginning and at the end of the century of "the battle of the gods." As a result of the perturbations of this century, there were intermediary values of the year and the month. The length of the year probably ranged between 360 and 365¼ days, but the moon, being a smaller (or weaker) body than the earth, suffered greater perturbations from the contacting body, and the intermediate values of the month could have been subjected to greater changes.
Plutarch declares that in the time of Romulus the people were "irrational and irregular in their fixing of the months," and reckoned some months at thirty-five days and some at more, "trying to keep to a year of 360 days," and that Numa, Romulus’ successor, corrected the irregularities of the calendar and also changed the order of the months. This statement suggests the question: Might it not have been that during the period between consecutive catastrophes the moon receded to an orbit of thirty-five or thirty-six days’ duration?

If, in the period of confusion, the moon actually changed for a while to such an orbit, it must have been an ellipse or a circle of a radius larger than before. In the latter case, each of the four moon phases must have been of nine days’ duration. It is of interest, therefore, to read that in many sagas dealing with the moon, the number nine is used in measures of time.
A series of scholars found that nine days was for a while a time period of many ancient peoples: the Hindus, the Persians , the Babylonians,the Egyptians, and the Chinese. In religious traditions, literature, and astrological works, seven days and nine days compete as the measure of the month’s quarter.

Therefore, and in view of the vast material from many peoples, we conclude that at one time during the century of perturbations, for a period between two catastrophes, the moon receded to an orbit of thirty-five to thirty-six days’ duration. It remained on such an orbit for a few decades until, at the next upheaval, it was carried to an orbit of twenty-nine and a half days’ duration, on which it has proceeded since then.
These "perturbed months" occurred in the second half of the eighth century, at the beginning of Roman history.What is more, we have actual dates like "the 33rd day of the month," cited in the Babylonian tablets of that period.
When the month was about thirty-six days and the year between 360 and 365¼ days, the year must have been composed of only ten months. This was the case.
According to many classical authors, in the days of Romulus the year consisted of ten months, and the time of Numa, his successor, two months were added: January and February. Ovid writes: "When the founder of the city [Rome] was setting the calendar in order, he ordained that there should be twice five months in his year. . . He gave his laws to regulate the year. The month of Mars was the first, and that of Venus the second. . . But Numa overlooked not Janus and the ancestral shades [February] and so to the ancient months he prefixed two."
Not only was the year divided into fewer than twelve months, but also the zodiac, or the path of the sun and the moon across the firmament, at present consisting of twelve signs, at one time had eleven and at another time ten signs. A zodiac of fewer than twelve signs was employed by the astrologers of Babylonia, ancient Greece, and other countries. A Jewish song in the Aramaic language which is included in the Sedar Service refers to eleven constellations of the Zodiac.

In the middle of the eighth century the calendar then in use became obsolete. From the year -747 until the last of the catastrophies on the twenty-third of March, -687, the solar and lunar movements changed repeatedly, necessitating adjustments of the calendar. Reforms undertaken during this time soon became obsolete in their turn, and were replaced by new ones; only after the last catastrophe of -687, when the present world order was established, did the calendar become permanent.
Some of the clay tablets of Nineveh found in the royal library of that city contain astronomical observations made during the period before the present order in the planetary system was established. One tablet fixes the day of the vernal equinox as the sixth of Nisan: "On the sixth of the month Nisan, the day and night are equal." But another tablet places the equinox on the fifteenth of Nisan. "We cannot explain the difference," wrote a scholar. Judging by the accurate methods employed and the precision achieved in their observations, the stargazers of Nineveh would not have erred by nine days.

In the astronomical tablets of Nineveh "three systems of planets" are extensively represented; single planets are followed in all their movements in three different schedules.

When the cataclysm of the 23rd of March, -687 brought about another disturbance in the length of the year and month, the new standards remained uncertain until they could be calculated anew in a series of investigations.
From the time of that catastrophe until about the year -669 or -667, no New Year festivals were observed at Babylon."Eight years under Sennacherib, twelve years under Esarhaddon: for twenty years . . . the New Year’s festival was omitted," says an ancient chronicle on a clay tablet. According to cuneiform inscriptions, in the days of Sargon II a new world age began, and in the days of his son Sennacherib another world age.



What do we have in the Bible to back up these "upheaveals"????
 
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Sephania

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This continues to be very interesting:

In the Talmud a number of scattered passages deal with a calendric change made by Hezekiah. The Talmud was written about a thousand years after Hezekiah, and not all details of the reform are preserved; it states that Hezekiah doubled the month of Nisan.
In later times, in order to adjust the lunar year to the solar year, an intercalary month was added every few years by doubling the last month of the year, Adar. This system of an intercalary Adar is preserved in the Hebrew calendar to this day.

The rabbis wondered why Hezekiah added another Nisan (the first month). The story is told in the Scriptures that Hezekiah, instead of celebrating Passover in the first month, put off the feast to the second month. The Talmud explains that it was not the second month, but an additional Nisan.

It must be noted that in Judea in the days of Hezekiah the months were not called by Babylonian names, and therefore the situation should be stated as follows: Hezekiah, after the death of Ahaz, and before the second invasion of Sennacherib, added a month and postponed the feast of Passover. According to the Talmud this was done to make the lunar year correspond more closely to the solar year. As we shall see, there appears to be some similarity between this action and that by Numa at about the same time.

What permanent changes Hezekiah introduced in the calendar is not stated, but it is apparent that at that time calendar reckoning became a complicated matter. As Moses in his day "could not understand how to compute the calendar until God showed him the movements of the moon plainly," so in the days of Hezekiah the determination of the month and of the year became a matter, not of calculation, but of direct observation, and could not be performed much in advance. Isaiah called the astrologers "the monthly prognosticators."

As we have already said, there is in the Talmud the information that the Temple of Solomon was built so that on the equinoctial days of the year the direction of the rays of the rising sun could be tested. A gold plate or disc was affixed to the eastern gate; through it the rays of the rising sun fell into the heart of the Temple. The Festival of the Tabernacle (Sukkoth) "was originally an equinoctial festival as Exodus 23:16 and 34:22 state explicitly, celebrated during the last seven days of the year, and immediately preceding the New Year’s Day, the day of the fall equinox, upon the tenth of the seventh month."In other words, New Year’s Day, or the day of the autumnal equinox, was observed on the tenth day of the seventh month, the day when the sun rose exactly in the east and set exactly in the west, the Day of Atonement falling on the same day. Thereafter, the day of the New Year was moved back to the first day of the seventh month. We may note that not only on the Jewish calendar, but also according to the Babylonian tablets, the equinoctial dates were displaced by nine days: one tablet says that in the spring day and night are equal on the fifteenth of the month Nisan; another tablet says that it takes place on the sixth of the same month. This indicates that the change in the calendar of the feasts observed in Jerusalem followed astronomical changes.

The eastern gate of the Temple of Jerusalem was no longer correctly oriented after the cardinal points had become displaced. On his accession to the throne following the death of Ahaz, Hezekiah "inaugurated a sweeping religious reformation." II Chronicles 29:3 ff. says: "He in the first year of his reign, in the first month, opened the doors of the house of the Lord, and repaired them." Apparently the natural changes in terrestrial rotation which took place in the days of Uzziah and again on the day of the burial of Ahaz, necessitated a reform. Hezekiah therefore gathered the priests "into the east street" and spoke to them, saying that "our fathers have trespassed" and "have shut up the doors of the porch."

In the pre-Exilic period it was held "to be of imperative necessity that on two days of the year the sun shone directly through the eastern gate," and "through all the eastern gates of the Temple arranged in line, directly into the very heart of the Temple proper." The eastern gate, also called "sun gate," served not only to check on the equinoxes, when the sun rises exactly in the east, but on the solstices as well: a device on the eastern gate was designed to reflect the first rays of the sun on the summer and winter solstices, when the sun rises in the southeast and the northeast, respectively. According to Talmudic authorities, the early prophets experienced much difficulty in making this arrangement work.

From biblical times vestiges of three calendar systems remain,and this assumes a special interest in view of the fact we noted some pages back, namely, that the tablets from Nineveh record three different systems of solar and planetary movements, each of which is complete in itself and differs from the others at every point.

It appears that the adjustment of the calendar, following the initiation of the new world order in the days of Hezekiah, was a long and tedious process. As late as one hundred years after Hezekiah, during the Babylonian exile, in the days of Solon and Thales, Jeremiah, Baruch, and Ezekiel drew up the calendar from year to year.105

When the Jews returned from the Babylonian exile, they brought with them their present calendar, in which the months are called by Assyro-Babylonian names.

"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will [do] make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain," reads the closing chapter of the Book of Isaiah. All flesh will come to worship the Lord "from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another." The "new heavens" means a sky with constellations or luminaries in new places. The prophet promises that the new sky will be everlasting and that the months will keep forever their established order.

Daniel, the Jewish sage at the court of Nebuchadnezzar, king of the Exile, when blessing the Lord, said to the king: "He changeth the times and the seasons." This is a remarkable sentence which is also preserved in many Jewish prayers. By the change of seasons or "appointed dates" (moadim) is meant an alteration in the order of nature, with shifting of solstitial and equinoctial dates and the festivals connected with them. "The change of times" could refer not only to the last change, but to the previous ones also, and it was "the change of the times and the seasons" that was followed by calendar reforms.

:thumbsup: Huh?
 
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Sephania

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Remember Hezekiah? He was a special king for another reason besides changing the calendar..............Remember how the L-RD extended his life????? :)



The 8th century BC was a time between 799 BC - 700 BC. Let's look to the Bible in that period of time to see if we can find any changes mentioned. There are a number of books in the Bible that were written during this time. 2nd Kings, Amos, Hosea, Micah, Isaiah... In the book of Isaiah we find the story of the sundial going backwards.

This is the earliest mention of a sundial in historical literature.

Isaiah 38 tells us about Hezekiah king of Judah, a man near death, told by Isaiah to put his house in order because God told Isaiah that Hezekiah would die and not live. Hezekiah prays to God and God tells Isaiah that He has heard Hezekiah's prayer and will add 15 years to his life. God even says to Isaiah that He will give Hezekiah a sign that God will do this.

"Behold, I will bring the shadow on the sundial of Ahaz ten degrees backward." So the sun returned ten degrees on the dial by which it had gone down. (Isaiah 38:8)

This story is repeated in 2 Kings 20:1-11

How much time would this 10 degrees take?

360 degree circle (on the sundial), divided by 12 hours of sunlight (average day) = 30 degrees per hour

1/3 of an hour = 20 minutes

10 degrees would = 20 minutes.

Now a modern sundial is round and would only show a 180 degree change for 12 hours, but the sundials from this time were not round but a set of stairs that had two sides that stepped up towards each other and met in the middle. We don't know how many steps this particular sundial of Ahaz had. If it had 360 steps then 20 minutes could be an accurate estimate.

Why 360 steps? The Hebrew in Isaiah can be translated literally as steps (NIV) but it can also mean degrees (KJV), so if the meaning were 10 degrees then 360 degrees would = 360 steps.

A sundial positioned properly with 360 steps could tell you not only what hour of the day it was but also what day of the year it was (if the year had 360 days).

Some commentaries on this sign of the sundial going backwards have said that it could have been due to sun refraction. Would the creator of the universe give a sign that could be confused with natural phenomenon? These commentaries would be written by people of little faith.

Now this gets quite interesting: The earth is orbiting the sun at 29.79 km/s (kilometers per second) and has been doing so for many thousands of years. This constant speed of 29.79 km/s means that to make one orbit of the sun (one complete circle) will take 365.2422 days.



If we had a year of 360 days and slowed the orbit of the earth from 30.22379 km/s back to 29.79 km/s then the year would equal our current solar year; 365.2422 days per year.

The difference in speed between 365.2422 days per year and 360 days per year is equal to 20.9688 minutes per day. This is not a difference in our 24-hour time period but it would take the earth 20.9688 minutes less time per day to travel that same distance in the orbit around the sun. 365.2422 days -20.9688 minutes per day = 360 days

Read more here for a more indepth clarifiying explanation 360 vs 365
 
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Sephania

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Ever wonder why in the end times the times are in 360day years? you know the 1260 days, the 3 1/2 months, check this out:



In my last paper #Y115 the data seems to indicate that God placed the life span limit on man to 120 years of 365 days per year. God made His decision 100 years before the flood in Genesis 6:3. Noah indicates that during the flood the year was 360 days long with 30-day months (Genesis 7:11,24 and 8:3-4). Then in Genesis 11:10 (2 years after the flood) there could be some confusion over which calendar to use 365 days per year or 360 days per year (see paper #Y112).

This Biblical data seems to indicate that before the flood the calendar could have consisted of approximately 365 days per year. Then the years changed to 360 days per year - this would take some time to get use to which may account for the confusion in Genesis 11:10. Then the year again became our modern 365.2422 days per year - possibly in the 8th century as reflected in the calendar changes around the world at this time.

Isn't it strange how the story of Jehoiada and his long life span (see: #Y115) only works with God's rule from Genesis 6:3, only if the years were equal to 365 days per year when the rule was made. This will only work if we account for Jehoiada's years past 120 as being added on by God for a time that is equal to the years Jehoiada hid Joash. Then we read the story in Isaiah 38, which tells us about God adding years to Hezekiah's life and using a miracle to prove it. That miracle and the calculations that surround it begin the discovery of a simple way (speed of the earth's orbit) of converting a 360 day year with a 30 day month to our modern 365.2422 day year with a lunar month equal to 29.531 days. Of course the Creator of the universe (God) is the only being capable of altering the speed of the earth's orbit faster or slower.

Interestingly enough earth may be headed for a 360-day year again!

Daniel 7:25 speaks about the last part of the tribulation with the Antichrist in power as lasting three-and-one-half years. The book of Revelation 11:2 and 13:5 describes the same period of time as being 42 months. Revelation 11:3 and 12:6 tells us that it is 1,260 days.

1,260 days divided by 42 months = 30 days per month.
42 months of 30 days per month = 3 1/2 years exactly of 360 days per year

To achieve a 30 day month the earth's orbit around the sun must be speed up so a year would = 360 days

Jesus speaking on the tribulation:
"And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elects (chosen ones) sake those days will be shortened.
(Matthew 24:22)

"But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be."
(Matthew 24:37)

Our Calendar of 365.2422 days per year x 3.5 years = 1278.3477 days
Revelations Calendar of 360 days per year x 3.5 years = 1260
This time period of 3.5 years would be shortened by 18.3477 days By the way, according to the bible (Genesis 5:23,24)(Hebrews 11:5) Enoch did not die, but was taken (raptured) by God when he was in his 365th year.


Read more, Joshua's long day and Isaiahs sundial http://www.direct.ca/trinity/orbital.html
 
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Sephania

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Some calculations I just did.

If this orbital change occured in 701 BC from the passing of Mars between our moon and earth which caused the earth to slow down................

0701bc
+
2005ad
=
2,706 years that now are 365.25 days long

2,706 X 5.25 = 14,206.5 days added since then.

14,206.5 / 365.25 = 38.89 years added

14,206.5 / 360 = 39.46 years added

I am not sure exactly what this means, but it seems that a whole generation ( almost 40 years) has been added to our time.
 
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shmuel

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I saw this yesterday, but did reply because I hoped that someone else who knew some physics would catch the error. However, since no one else has seen the problem with the physics, here it is:

Guy Cramer assumes that the speed of the earth in orbit can be changed without changing the radius of the orbit. However, higher orbital speeds require a smaller radius. The proper way to do the calculation is to use Kepler's Third Law, which relates the period to the semi-major axis. Please see:

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/KeplersThirdLaw.html
 
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Shimshon

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There is a very good sized astreroid headed our way. Said to arrive within the next 5 yrs and to pass inbetween the earth and the moon. Actually they first said it was going to collide. But after the Tsunami this year they recalculated because they thought it might have effected the orbit. And sure enough now it is not going to collide but graze us.

LOOK UP!!!! It's drawing near!! The knees are going to drop to the floor.....:bow:
 
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visionary

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shimshon said:
There is a very good sized astreroid headed our way. Said to arrive within the next 5 yrs and to pass inbetween the earth and the moon. Actually they first said it was going to collide. But after the Tsunami this year they recalculated because they thought it might have effected the orbit. And sure enough now it is not going to collide but graze us.

LOOK UP!!!! It's drawing near!! The knees are going to drop to the floor.....:bow:
What is it's name? Do you know of a website that is following it?
 
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Shimshon

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It's called "2004MN4"

Here is an article by the Washington Post from NASA

http://nai.arc.nasa.gov/impact/news_detail.cfm?ID=157

Here is a comentary Hal has on it

http://www.hallindseyoracle.com/articles.asp?ArticleID=11021



Asteroid 2004 MN4 is a "regional" hazard -- big enough to flatten Texas or a couple of European countries with an impact equivalent to 10,000 megatons of dynamite -- more than all the nuclear weapons in the world. Even though it will be a near miss in 2029, that will not be the last word.

"You don't know what the gravitational effect of the Earth will be," said Brian G. Marsden, who oversees the hunt for near-Earth objects as director of the Minor Planet Center at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics.

"In 2029, the [close encounter with] Earth will increase the size of the orbit, and the object could get into a resonance with the Earth," he added. "You could get orbit matchups every five years or nine years, or something in between." In fact, 2004 MN4 could come close again in 2034, 2035, 2036, 2037, 2038 or later.

In order for the earth to speed up or slow down, as shmuel said, you would have to change the orbit........:eek:

ON YOUR KNEES!!! Kolam!!!
 
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shmuel said:
I saw this yesterday, but did reply because I hoped that someone else who knew some physics would catch the error. However, since no one else has seen the problem with the physics, here it is:

Guy Cramer assumes that the speed of the earth in orbit can be changed without changing the radius of the orbit. However, higher orbital speeds require a smaller radius. The proper way to do the calculation is to use Kepler's Third Law, which relates the period to the semi-major axis. Please see:

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/KeplersThirdLaw.html
Thanks shmuel,

I caught it, but I also thought that they might be simply refering to the rotation of the Earth on its axis. If the speed of the Earths rotation changes, the number of days that it takes to circle the sun changes without changing the orbit, only the length of the day. It is an interesting mental exercise in any case.

Have you calculated the change in the radius (what the new distance from the sun would be) to satisfy Mr. Cramers assumptions? Would it devastate the Earths surface? Hmmm...

b'Shalom
 
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Shimshon

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visionary said:
Thank you.... but I thought there was one sooner than that one.... it was very much bigger also. From what I understand, if my memory serves me right, this one was 14 miles wide by 8 miles long and wobbled like a thrown football.
That one got lost behind the current gossip...um I mean events of the day. Just like this one got lost behind the Tsunami and the war. Not that those two things are gossip. But it seems they do get "gossiped over" much more than the revealing of any true news we might need. But the Ruach will reveal what we need when we need.

Gut Shabbos Vis
 
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Sephania

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shmuel said:
I saw this yesterday, but did reply because I hoped that someone else who knew some physics would catch the error. However, since no one else has seen the problem with the physics, here it is:

Guy Cramer assumes that the speed of the earth in orbit can be changed without changing the radius of the orbit. However, higher orbital speeds require a smaller radius. The proper way to do the calculation is to use Kepler's Third Law, which relates the period to the semi-major axis. Please see:

http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/KeplersThirdLaw.html

O K, That was in the 4th and 5th post, does anyone have any comments on the first three posts?

Let's try and learn together, echad, instead of looking just to point out errors,. explain the errors and your thoughts so we all can learn. Aren't we all on the same side? :scratch:

also let's PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEAZE keep this thread about the calendar only so others can reference it easily. ;)
 
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Sephania

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This is very interesting, what do you all think of this man's work?
[size=+2]3251 AM - 3500 AM[/size]



[size=+2]or[/size]



[size=+2]749 BC - 500 BC[/size]
http://www.hooper-home.net/CHRONO/From3251.htm

It is also interesting his study of the number '6' and the relationship of the jubilee years.

Notice the numerous Total Solar eclipes during Hezekiah's reign?
 
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