Locust

Karl - Liberal Backslider said:

The last post speaks for itself. This is how far one has to go to support the literality of Scripture.

And I've watched locusts. They use all six to walk around. Which pair do you think they don't use?

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It's quite obvious that the locust has six appendages used for locomotion.
What I was trying to do was point out the difference between the 4 front appendages and the 2 rear appendages. (you do see the differance?)

Typically the two rear appendages are for jumping and the 4 front appendages for walking around.

As you should clearly see one doesn't have to go far to understand the literal intent of the passage concerning the locust. The bible did a great job of differentiating this particular insect locomotion appendages from the other insects. Apparently the bible did not consider the 2 rear jumping appendages as legs in the sense legs are typically used for.

Now if the bible mentioned that an ant or a bee had 4 legs...you might have a point. What the anti-bible crowd fails to do is consider the function of their appendages.

In a sense we humans have 4 legs. But we consider one set as arms. The biblical context of the locust is similar.

Whether you want to accept it or not, the locust question has been answered.

That a literal apologetic has to eventually resort to calling the locust's rear legs "not legs", especially given that a crawling locust uses its rear legs as part of its gait, speaks volumes.

No, the literal apologetic understands the intention of the verse.
This understanding of the verse, which was expalined above bares witness that the 4 leg view is literally correct.

As I said, you don't have to accept the argument I presented, but like many others, you ought to find another problem to try and prove your point. This issue has be considered closed for years.

I trust you now stand corrected on this topic.

The issue is closed because the scientific accuracy of the Bible is a non-issue. For most Christians, at any rate - only the literalist hard core have a problem here.

Stand corrected? Hardly. Simple fact. Locusts have six legs and walk on all six of them. A description of them as walking on four is simply incorrect - it'd get you an F in a science paper.

Is there really anything to discuss here? The literal reading of the Bible text here is clearly erroneous. End of story.

The rear two legs are for jumping...or will you be claiming that the front 4 are for jumping?

As you see the literal reading of the bible concerning the locust is very accurate.

Listen very carefully - I shall say this only once.

The issue is not how many legs are used for jumping. The issue is how many are used for walking - six, in contradiction of the literal reading of the bible text.

Ark Guy said:

The rear two legs are for jumping...or will you be claiming that the front 4 are for jumping?

As you see the literal reading of the bible concerning the locust is very accurate.

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Well, lets do an experiment to see if the front four legs are used in the jumping of the insect...

Take a locust and remove its front four legs, can it still jump? Nope, it just flops around like a fish out of water.

So it seems that the front four legs are needed for jumping.

Let us do another experiment and this time leave the front four legs and remove the back two and see how well it walks...

Well, this is interesting, it can still drag its body around, but it's not walking normaly for a locust, its more like a dog draging its self around with only it's front paws.

It seems that all six legs are needed for jumping and walking.

For some reason I find it hard to believe you really did this experiment Lewis. It would seem it would only need possibly 2 front legs for jumping (to help with balance), not all 4. Of course humans need no legs for walking. People walk with just their arms all the time. Of course I'm being nit picky which many skeptics do with the Bible when it comes to certain passages to try to show contradictions when they really can be explained in a sensible manner. It's all about though the assumptions you start out with. Is the Bible true or does it contain many factual errors. That's the foundation people pick from. It's easy in this part of the forum to see which one the person uses.

Project 86 said:

For some reason I find it hard to believe you really did this experiment Lewis. It would seem it would only need possibly 2 front legs for jumping (to help with balance), not all 4. Of course humans need no legs for walking. People walk with just their arms all the time. Of course I'm being nit picky which many skeptics do with the Bible when it comes to certain passages to try to show contradictions when they really can be explained in a sensible manner. It's all about though the assumptions you start out with. Is the Bible true or does it contain many factual errors. That's the foundation people pick from. It's easy in this part of the forum to see which one the person uses.

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To what shall I compare this?

I know.

There was once a man who was sure he was actually dead.

His doctor tried all ways to convince him he was still alive, but to no avail.

Eventually the doctor said "Look - do you agree with me that dead men do not bleed?"

"Yes" said the man "you're quite correct. Dead men don't bleed, especially when they've been dead for more than a few minutes"

"So, if I cut you, who has been dead for some days now, you will not bleed"

"That's quite right doctor."

So the doctor gets out his scalpel and cuts the man's hand. Blood freely pours from the wound.

"Good grief!" cries the man "Dead men do bleed after all!"

I have no idea what the point of you last post was Karl. Did you know by the way it takes a human 2 legs (or 2 arms as perviously proven) plus a head to walk? If I cut off a person's head they will not be able to walk any longer. Therefore it is incorrect to say a human needs just 2 legs or 2 arms to walk! Thing with the locust is that it uses those legs for those functions but really just for the balancing. Just as the head in humans is used for things such as body balance and of course also to initialize the commands to have the legs (or arms) move. Gives you something to think about, doesn't it?!?! Well I need to get to work so I'll check back later.

Project 86 said:

I have no idea what the point of you last post was Karl.

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I suggest you reread it and try to understand. The message is not difficult. It's in reponse to your suggestion that this is about presuppositions.

Did you know by the way it takes a human 2 legs (or 2 arms as perviously proven) plus a head to walk? If I cut off a person's head they will not be able to walk any longer. Therefore it is incorrect to say a human needs just 2 legs or 2 arms to walk! Thing with the locust is that it uses those legs for those functions but really just for the balancing. Just as the head in humans is used for things such as body balance and of course also to initialize the commands to have the legs (or arms) move. Gives you something to think about, doesn't it?!?! Well I need to get to work so I'll check back later.

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Quite irrelevant. The issue is that the Bible says that locusts crawl on four legs. They do not. It's as open and shut as that.

Quick question. What are the rear 'apendages' of the locust doing while it's walking and not jumping? Are they being dragged on the ground? Are they raised above the ground, tucked away, while the locust is walking. I'm not an entonologist and I really have not done close study and observation, so I really don't know.

metathoracic leg...look it up.

It's a limb made for jumping...not walking

Thanks.

Cool stuff. It appears that the metathoratic, (rear), legs of the locust have the capapility to store lot's of energy, and are designed for kicking and jumping. My question is still not answered, however. Are the rear legs used, at all, for walking? Are they dragged along the ground while the locust is walking? Are they raised up or tucked away while the locust is walking?

They are used. The locust's walking gait is essentially the same as that of any other insect.

Okay. Thanks.

Are you really that naive, Bear? Of course they use all six legs to walk.

I think all six legs are used.