I stumped tech support! Yeah!

MsDe · Dec 11, 2003

Here's a copy of what I sent to my motherboard manufacturer's tech support people:

OS: Mircrosoft Windows XP Pro, Version 2002 with Service Pack 1

Mainboard: Tyan Trinity AT 100, model S1590

BIOS: Award, dated 09/23/99

Controller Cards: Linksys LNE100Tx Version 2.0 Fast Ethernet PCI Card
Creative Labs AWE 64 16 bit Sound Card
NVidia GeForce 2 MX 400 32 Meg Video Card
Other: Maxtor 12.8 Gig Hard Drive
ATAPI 52x CD Rom Drive
eMachines 17 inch Monitor
Microsoft PS/2 Optical Scroll Wheel Mouse
PS/2 Keyboard

My problem: I seem to be having a conflict/problem with the VIA Apollo MVP3 chipset Tyan used on the S1590 board and my new nVidia GeForce 2 MX 400 graphics card. I cannot play any of my games (Zoo Tycoon, Railroad Tycoon 2, Roller Coaster Tycoon 2, Baldur's Gate 2) nor use any of the 3D screen savers (3D Text, 3D Flying Objects, etc.) Whenever I attempt to use any of the former choices, my video resolution drops to 800 x 600 with 4 bit color. Rebooting does not help. I cannot get the correct drivers for the video card to install; when the computer tries to reboot it gets just past the splash screen (Windows XP is loading, with the little blue bar graphic) and then I get a black screen with a single flashing understore symbol in the upper left hand corner of my monitor.

My contact info:
~removed~

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,

De

Their response:

Denise,

We are both suprised that you can get Windows XP as well as a GeForce2 card to work on this motherboard at any level. This product is over 5 years of age and was never designed for an ACPI compliant OS or a video card of this speed. The max video card that could be used with this board would be aTNT2 AGP level card due to the age of the product itself. Also the maximum OS that was ever supported was WinNT.

There would be no solution we could give you that would be able to find resolution to this type of orientation.

I am truly impressed. The tech support folks didn't try to bluff their way around actually admitting they don't have a clue. They flat out tell me I'm on my own. Well, they didn't come right out and say it, but by saying 'the maximum OS that was ever supported was WinNT' is effectively saying the same thing.

How do I feel about it? Well I'm not happy that I'm gonna have to figure out on my own how to get this new video card to work with my current system, if it can at all. I'm tickled pink that I've stumped tech support, though. ^_^

I sat here and laughed my head off when I read their reply. I've had to call tech support places for different things, and they usually give me a bunch of useless things to try. Having provided tech support for a national ISP, I truly appreciate their honest answer, even though it doesn't help me at all.

Not to mention the visual image I have of these guys calling their coworkers over and saying 'You're not gonna believe this one! She's running XP on the S1590!' 'Isn't that board like five years old?' 'Yeah, and XP isn't even the problem!' 'It isn't?? WOW! Better you than me, dude! What're you gonna tell her?' and other stuff like that.

Sometimes it's the little things in life....

Deacon · Dec 11, 2003

LOL just get a new computer...and that card isn't all that great either

Durelen · Dec 11, 2003

lol I have one of those boards. Trying to put a vet engine into a vw bug?? tisk tisk What CPU you have on it 200mhz? la

MsDe · Dec 11, 2003

Oh I will when we can afford it. I'd upgrade the motherboard, but it's a Socket 7 and those seem to be pretty scarce these days, so I'd have to get a new processor, and then probably a new case 'cause I'm still using the desktop case from my original case and it's only got a 200 watt power supply. I refuse to buy new components simply to get the new video card to work. If I've gotta do that, I'm just gonna go all out and build the machine I want, ya know?

I know the new card, the nVidia GeForce 2 isn't that great, but I thought (that was mistake #1) since my motherboard is so old (mistake #2) that an older video card would work (mistake #3) because it does have an AGP slot. A 32 Meg video card is pretty low end, but when one has an 8 Meg card, it's quite an improvement - four times the memory! LOL

MsDe · Dec 11, 2003

No, it's a 450MHz chip clocked to 501.

I didn't do the clocking, the chip came this way. I don't know why it has that extra 1MHz but it does. Kinda cute, actually, and seems to fit my piece by piece computer pretty well. lol

doofus125 · Dec 11, 2003

Well first of all if it is a 450mhz PII system then they are full of poo poo (couldn't say what I wanted to there) because a 450mhz system would support at least windows 98se and 98se is much newer than NT......(NT, 95, 98, 98se, ME, XP) and as for your system Yes it will support XP, but it's possible that your card won't work with XP, I have a video out card that just won't work with XP and it's in my 450mhz system.......

Did you try installing the NT/2000 drivers for your new video card? Just so you know though, Tech support really doesn't know anything, most of them just read what the book says and that's it......

doofus125 · Dec 11, 2003

btw, I'm confused on what you are looking for drivers for, can you post it again and I'll look around a little bit?

Durelen · Dec 11, 2003

MsDe said:
No, it's a 450MHz chip clocked to 501. I didn't do the clocking, the chip came this way. I don't know why it has that extra 1MHz but it does. Kinda cute, actually, and seems to fit my piece by piece computer pretty well. lol

Ahh I thought it only went to 400mhz. Maybe it's one of my ASUS boards that only clocked to 400mhz. I have a big stack of boards I hold onto. I also have a GeForce 2 but never put it on any of those boards. I didn't use the GeForce 2 until I had a 1.2 mhz thunderbird to run it. I used Voodoo cards in my 200mhz to 400mhz systems. I'm still running ATI 9000 now which is pretty nice. Anyway socket 7's were the best! I have one socket 7 system sitting five feet away from me that needs for me to put the cover back on it hehe. I'm going to need to hit the used parts rack after Christmas this year, I bet there will be some nice goodies just waiting for me.

MsDe · Dec 11, 2003

doofus, at this point I'm not sure WHAT drivers I need! LOL I've thrown my hands up in the air... ok, there were some other gestures before the hand-throwing...

anyhoo let me see if I can remember everything I've tried...

Installed the GeForce 2 card in the AGP slot, rebooted, let XP detect it, used the CD that came with the card, then did Windows Update, downloaded and installed the one driver update Windows Update wanted me to, rebooted, got the splash screen with the progress bar, then got a black screen with the flashing underscore in the upper left hand corner. Rebooted again, chose last known working configuration, let XP detect the new video card again, went online, tried the latest 4 in 1 driver from VIA, rebooted, same problem. Got frustrated, went to read a book, hubby took over and I'm not sure what he tried, but still no luck. I came back, tried the VIA Hyperion 4 in 1 driver, that didn't work. I tried something else but I can't remember what, it didn't work, so I installed my old video card and set the GeForce aside.

My next step is to triple check my BIOS settings, making sure the Assign IRQ for VGA in the PnP/PCI area is on/enabled and that Onchip USB is on/enabled in the Chipset Feature Setup. Those two recommendations came from the Tyan website. Then I'll try the 52.14 executable I downloaded from the MSI website.

Like I said, I'm not sure what drivers I need at this point. I've read so many things regarding this problem that I'm pretty much braindead regarding drivers.

...and as for your system Yes it will support XP, but it's possible that your card won't work with XP, I have a video out card that just won't work with XP and it's in my 450mhz system...

My computer's living proof that this particular motherboard will support XP; it's that my motherboard manufacturer won't help me because I've got an unsupported OS.

Do you remember the video card you have that doesn't work with XP? I'm just curious.

The CPU is an AMD-K6-2, btw.

SAPguy · Dec 11, 2003

Couple questions floating around my head .....

- You have an older board with an AGP slot .. is the AGP slot a 2x, 4x, 8x etc?
I'm guessing from the age of the board that it is 2x

- What rating is the card? If it is higher than 2x, then that's not gonna work so well.

- Have you downloaded the newest drivers for the card from Nvidia?

-Have you done a complete uninstall on the old video card and associated software? Sometimes there can be conflicts if the old cards information isn't removed/uninstalled.

doofus125 · Dec 11, 2003

My question was what device is missing drivers? Is it the new video card? If so what kind of card is it? As for the card that was in mine, I have no idea, I'd have to tear it out of the desk to find out and that is a whole project in itself (38 wires that connect to the back of this sucker and you have to crawl in from the back to get to them because they aren't long enough to put the tower out)........

MsDe said:
doofus, at this point I'm not sure WHAT drivers I need! LOL I've thrown my hands up in the air... ok, there were some other gestures before the hand-throwing... anyhoo let me see if I can remember everything I've tried...

Installed the GeForce 2 card in the AGP slot, rebooted, let XP detect it, used the CD that came with the card, then did Windows Update, downloaded and installed the one driver update Windows Update wanted me to, rebooted, got the splash screen with the progress bar, then got a black screen with the flashing underscore in the upper left hand corner. Rebooted again, chose last known working configuration, let XP detect the new video card again, went online, tried the latest 4 in 1 driver from VIA, rebooted, same problem. Got frustrated, went to read a book, hubby took over and I'm not sure what he tried, but still no luck. I came back, tried the VIA Hyperion 4 in 1 driver, that didn't work. I tried something else but I can't remember what, it didn't work, so I installed my old video card and set the GeForce aside.

My next step is to triple check my BIOS settings, making sure the Assign IRQ for VGA in the PnP/PCI area is on/enabled and that Onchip USB is on/enabled in the Chipset Feature Setup. Those two recommendations came from the Tyan website. Then I'll try the 52.14 executable I downloaded from the MSI website.

Like I said, I'm not sure what drivers I need at this point. I've read so many things regarding this problem that I'm pretty much braindead regarding drivers. [/size][/font]My computer's living proof that this particular motherboard will support XP; it's that my motherboard manufacturer won't help me because I've got an unsupported OS. Do you remember the video card you have that doesn't work with XP? I'm just curious.

The CPU is an AMD-K6-2, btw.

Durelen · Dec 11, 2003

The AGP multiplier/clock speed is too fast for the boards chipset. You would need to write a driver for it to work right since the chipset was outdated by the time the video card hit the market.

MsDe · Dec 12, 2003

SAPguy, the board supports 1x and 2x AGP cards and the GeForce 2 doesn't specifically say, but the manual I just downloaded says it features 4x AGP fast writes? I'm thinking this reeks of incompatibility?

I've tried the latest drivers from nVidia, yep. I know that was one of the steps we tried, I just don't remember when in the whole process.

And yeah, I made sure to remove any references to my old-but-it's-still-working (insert neener-neener-neener chant and a heartfelt raspberry directed at the GeForce card) video card.

doofus, Durelen says the AGP/multiplier clock speed is too fast for my board's VIA Apollo MVP3 chipset and that I need to write a driver for it. Do you write drivers? (hopeful look)

Durelen, when you say the AGP/multiplier clock speed do you mean the 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x etc. thing? If no, whatcha mean?

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that I know so much about computers that I'm really really dangerous. ^_^

I can usually talk the talk but when it comes to walking the walk, it better be a short walk with no scenery or I'll get distracted.

Durelen · Dec 12, 2003

MsDe said:
Durelen, when you say the AGP/multiplier clock speed do you mean the 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x etc. thing? If no, whatcha mean?

Yep. The card sends too much video info to the board. It's a bottleneck and would never be fully stable even if you could get drivers.

DMX · Dec 12, 2003

MsDe said:
doofus, at this point I'm not sure WHAT drivers I need! LOL I've thrown my hands up in the air... ok, there were some other gestures before the hand-throwing... anyhoo let me see if I can remember everything I've tried...

Installed the GeForce 2 card in the AGP slot, rebooted, let XP detect it, used the CD that came with the card, then did Windows Update, downloaded and installed the one driver update Windows Update wanted me to, rebooted, got the splash screen with the progress bar, then got a black screen with the flashing underscore in the upper left hand corner. Rebooted again, chose last known working configuration, let XP detect the new video card again, went online, tried the latest 4 in 1 driver from VIA, rebooted, same problem. Got frustrated, went to read a book, hubby took over and I'm not sure what he tried, but still no luck. I came back, tried the VIA Hyperion 4 in 1 driver, that didn't work. I tried something else but I can't remember what, it didn't work, so I installed my old video card and set the GeForce aside

Interestingly. My 1.7GHz PC also uses the VIA chipset and the GeForce2 card and XP had no problems whatsoever detecting the card and installing its own drivers. What I did NOT do was to install those VIA 4-in-1 drivers. Tried it under Windows 2000, and the PC crashed constantly. Haven't installed them since and the PC works great!

I agree with the others that you should be able to run WinXP on your system - admittedly, it will be SLOW. You many want to check your system BIOS and ensure AGP speed is set to 2X. On some systems, leaving it on 4X can be problematic. Good luck.

SAPguy · Dec 12, 2003

Yes .... The AGP slot is your problem.

The ONLY way that it will work is if the card is 2x/4x compatible (some were built with this backwards compatibilty) and your AGP slot is accepting that 2x setting. You might have to change your BIOS settings as someone above said to tell the board that you are running a 2x card.

I think finding a card that is 2x compatible at this point is gonna be a tough task all by itself since most boards nowadays support 4x/8x or higher.

Durelen · Dec 13, 2003

If you are really bent on putting an AGP card on that thing then try ebay and find a Voodoo 2 card. Get an AGP 2X fantastic card in that range. Should hardly cost you a thing. An alternate video card would be a Banshee with 2x AGP which is the same as a Voodoo 2. Both great cards that will work with that main board.

MsDe · Dec 13, 2003

LOL Durelen, that's where I bought THIS card!! ROFL! Wonder if I can sweet talk someone into a trade on there? Hmmm.... ^_^

This whole thing started simply because we bought Railroad Tycoon 3 and one of the requirements is a minimum 16 Meg video card. Hubby's got a sweet machine so it's no prob on his computer. If I can sell the GeForce card on eBay I'll try to find a Voodoo card. Otherwise hubby will have to play trains by himself for a while.

kaotic · Dec 13, 2003

MsDe said:
Here's a copy of what I sent to my motherboard manufacturer's tech support people:

OS: Mircrosoft Windows XP Pro, Version 2002 with Service Pack 1

Mainboard: Tyan Trinity AT 100, model S1590

BIOS: Award, dated 09/23/99

Controller Cards: Linksys LNE100Tx Version 2.0 Fast Ethernet PCI Card
Creative Labs AWE 64 16 bit Sound Card
NVidia GeForce 2 MX 400 32 Meg Video Card
Other: Maxtor 12.8 Gig Hard Drive
ATAPI 52x CD Rom Drive
eMachines 17 inch Monitor
Microsoft PS/2 Optical Scroll Wheel Mouse
PS/2 Keyboard

My problem: I seem to be having a conflict/problem with the VIA Apollo MVP3 chipset Tyan used on the S1590 board and my new nVidia GeForce 2 MX 400 graphics card. I cannot play any of my games (Zoo Tycoon, Railroad Tycoon 2, Roller Coaster Tycoon 2, Baldur's Gate 2) nor use any of the 3D screen savers (3D Text, 3D Flying Objects, etc.) Whenever I attempt to use any of the former choices, my video resolution drops to 800 x 600 with 4 bit color. Rebooting does not help. I cannot get the correct drivers for the video card to install; when the computer tries to reboot it gets just past the splash screen (Windows XP is loading, with the little blue bar graphic) and then I get a black screen with a single flashing understore symbol in the upper left hand corner of my monitor.

My contact info:
~removed~

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,

De

Their response:

Denise,

We are both suprised that you can get Windows XP as well as a GeForce2 card to work on this motherboard at any level. This product is over 5 years of age and was never designed for an ACPI compliant OS or a video card of this speed. The max video card that could be used with this board would be aTNT2 AGP level card due to the age of the product itself. Also the maximum OS that was ever supported was WinNT.

There would be no solution we could give you that would be able to find resolution to this type of orientation.

I am truly impressed. The tech support folks didn't try to bluff their way around actually admitting they don't have a clue. They flat out tell me I'm on my own. Well, they didn't come right out and say it, but by saying 'the maximum OS that was ever supported was WinNT' is effectively saying the same thing.

How do I feel about it? Well I'm not happy that I'm gonna have to figure out on my own how to get this new video card to work with my current system, if it can at all. I'm tickled pink that I've stumped tech support, though. I sat here and laughed my head off when I read their reply. I've had to call tech support places for different things, and they usually give me a bunch of useless things to try. Having provided tech support for a national ISP, I truly appreciate their honest answer, even though it doesn't help me at all.

Not to mention the visual image I have of these guys calling their coworkers over and saying 'You're not gonna believe this one! She's running XP on the S1590!' 'Isn't that board like five years old?' 'Yeah, and XP isn't even the problem!' 'It isn't?? WOW! Better you than me, dude! What're you gonna tell her?' and other stuff like that.

Sometimes it's the little things in life....

Well that video card is pretty old, but it should still work ok. I think you should download the lastest nvidia drivers. http://downloads.driverheaven.net/NVIDIA/w2k_xp5270.exe

And check and see if there are any bios updates for your motherboard. Those two things are the most important.

MsDe · Dec 13, 2003

kaotic said:
Well that video card is pretty old, but it should still work ok. I think you should download the lastest nvidia drivers. http://downloads.driverheaven.net/NVIDIA/w2k_xp5270.exe

And check and see if there are any bios updates for your motherboard. Those two things are the most important.

Hi kaotic, I've tried the nvidia drivers, no luck there, and according to my motherboard manufacturer I'm using the latest bios for my board.

Thanks for the suggestions!

I stumped tech support! Yeah!

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