IS THE SUN A SIGN OF THE SON?

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 20, 2003

First of all, I want to say that the end times is probably one of the most controversial topics ever discussed in religion. Please be kind on this thread, as the other one got locked due to the bickering and name calling. If the fighting starts, I will not hesitate to hit the "report" button. Please, let's be adults on here. We can agree to disagreee, but do it in the love of Christ.
If any of you have been paying attention to the news, we are in a solar period where the sun has solar flares. From what I understand, it is an 11 year cycle, and this one was a bit late. Here is a link from a solar physicist from Nasa, and the title is very interesting: Our Mysterious Sun Goes Haywire. He states in the last paragraph that no one knows, referring to that they don't know what is going to happen during this next phase. The sunspots are now on the earthside.
http://www.rednova.com/news/stories/1/2003/11/13/story001.html
Jesus stated that in the last days, that there would be signs in the heavens and the earth ~ Acts. 2:19-20 ~ And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come.
We just had the worst fires ever recorded in California history, (fire, vapor of smoke?) We just had a lunar eclipse, (moon into blood ?), as it was red. Now we have the sun doing some things out of the normal. Solar flares in themselves are not abnormal, but this one is something that the scientists have never seen do before. Here is a link to another space site talking about the solar flares, plus other tidbits of space interest: http://www.sunspotcycle.com/
I personally believe that we are fixing to see the book of Joel unfold:
Joel 2:10 ~The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Love to hear your thoughts on this, even though I am pretty much convinced on mine. .

lands21 · Nov 20, 2003

Though I agree we are in the end times, we do not know how long the end times will be. They could come before I finish typing this post, or they could come when my great grandchild is in his flying car going to work.....

Josh1 · Nov 20, 2003

Great post. I also believe that we are in the last days. These could be signs that the rapture is about to happen. In the tribulation there will be many wacky things going on with sun, moon, and stars. But it is not talking about the sign in matthew for that is to take place after the tribulation. God Bless.

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 20, 2003

jeffderuyter21 said:
Though I agree we are in the end times, we do not know how long the end times will be. They could come before I finish typing this post, or they could come when my great grandchild is in his flying car going to work.....

I pray to God that we won't be here when my grandchildren are in their flying cars. As bad as this world has gotten now, I can't even imagine how bad it will be when they get up into their teens. They are 4-1/2 and 2-1/2. I pray to God that the loves of my life are spared what is coming, as Godless as this nation is turning. Do you agree that there are some signs that have to be shown before Christs return

.

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 20, 2003

Josh1 said:
Great post. I also believe that we are in the last days. These could be signs that the rapture is about to happen. In the tribulation there will be many wacky things going on with sun, moon, and stars. But it is not talking about the sign in matthew for that is to take place after the tribulation. God Bless.

You are correct Josh. The one in Matthew is "immediately after the tribulation of those days", Matt.24:29. There is another solar and lunar event that takes place in Joel before Christs return. Also as an added prophecy plus here that I heard a few days ago, the Jews in Israel are seeking funds for the Temple Institute, to get the money to rebuild the temple. Some BIG Christian ministries here in the US are going to back them. We know what that means don't we

?

Pericles · Nov 20, 2003

By His Grace said:
I personally believe that we are fixing to see the book of Joel unfold:
Joel 2:10 ~The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Love to hear your thoughts on this, even though I am pretty much convinced on mine. .

Hmm...that's strange because Peter, being inspired by the Holy Spirit also believed the same thing, that the book of Joel was unfolding in his lifetime:

"...but THIS is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel. It shall be in the last days, God says, that I will pour forth of my spirit on all mankind" - Acts 2

Let me think about this for a minute...who would be more likely to be correct, you or Peter?

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 20, 2003

Pericles said:
Hmm...that's strange because Peter, being inspired by the Holy Spirit also believed the same thing, that the book of Joel was unfolding in his lifetime:

"...but THIS is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel. It shall be in the last days, God says, that I will pour forth of my spirit on all mankind" - Acts 2

Let me think about this for a minute...who would be more likely to be correct, you or Peter?

Hi Pericles. I knew you would show up. The out pouring of the Holy Spirit doesn't take place until Joel 2:28. The "lunar /solar" event happens before that. Who would be correct Pericles, you or the bible, hmmmm?????
There is another solar/lunar event in Joel 2:31. That is a different thing. This one doesn't have an earthquake in it or the stars falling from heaven. That one is the one that takes place after the tribulation in Matt. 24:29. I am basically talking about the one in Joel 2:10. These are all signs, albiet, the one in Matt. we shouldn't see, IF we are raptured. Actually, Jesus didn't say that all of these signs would happen at the same time. He just said what the signs were.

Pericles · Nov 20, 2003

By His Grace said:
Hi Pericles. I knew you would show up. The out pouring of the Holy Spirit doesn't take place until Joel 2:28. The "lunar /solar" event happens before that. Who would be correct Pericles, you or the bible, hmmmm?????

Heheh this is your excuse as a self-proclaimed prophet? In Acts 2 Peter included your lunar and solar events, and many other events! Read it again. Here it is in case you are missing it:

"but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:
'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;
EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN,
I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT
And they shall prophesy.
'AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE
AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW,
BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE.
'THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS
AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD,
BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.
'AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 20, 2003

Pericles said:
Heheh this is your excuse as a self-proclaimed prophet? In Acts 2 Peter included your lunar and solar events, and many other events! Read it again. Here it is in case you are missing it:

"but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel:

'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says,
'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND;
AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY,
AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS,
AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;
EVEN ON MY BONDSLAVES, BOTH MEN AND WOMEN,
I WILL IN THOSE DAYS POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT
And they shall prophesy.
'AND I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE
AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW,
BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE.
'THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS
AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD,
BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.
'AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

[/QUOTE

Pericles said:

Heheh this is your excuse as a self-proclaimed prophet?
You must be thinking of someone else. I never proclaimed myself as a prophet.

Click to expand...

Josh1 · Nov 20, 2003

First off, I will not argue like a little child. "BY HIS GRACE" has asked everybody to keep this "kind". I agree and since he started this thread, I think we need to respect his wishes. Pericles, your attitude so far has been nothing but of a taunting spirit. The verse is not a fulfillment of Joel for it will be in the last days. Peters point is that of similarity between what the Holy spirit will do in the future with the nation of Israel and what he was doing at the opening of the church age. The statement of Peter is in the language of comparison and similarity. I challenge you pericles to keep this thread respectful. I have a hard time with not downing other people that don't agree with me too. ( especially preterist, LOL) But like I said before, respect the thread starters wishes. God Bless.

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 20, 2003

Josh1 said:
First off, I will not argue like a little child. "BY HIS GRACE" has asked everybody to keep this "kind". I agree and since he started this thread, I think we need to respect his wishes. Pericles, your attitude so far has been nothing but of a taunting spirit. The verse is not a fulfillment of Joel for it will be in the last days. Peters point is that of similarity between what the Holy spirit will do in the future with the nation of Israel and what he was doing at the opening of the church age. The statement of Peter is in the language of comparison and similarity. I challenge you pericles to keep this thread respectful. I have a hard time with not downing other people that don't agree with me too. ( especially preterist, LOL) But like I said before, respect the thread starters wishes. God Bless.

Thank you Josh, but I am a "she", LOL. Also, I am not a preterist. Used to me, but not anymore.

armothe · Nov 20, 2003

I think the Bible is pretty clear when Peter states that Pentecost was a fulfillment of Joel's words.

-A

Trish1947 · Nov 20, 2003

By His Grace said:
Thank you Josh, but I am a "she", LOL. Also, I am not a preterist. Used to me, but not anymore.

It wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit if the Book of Joel is fixing to be fulfilled. The way this world is going, do we ever need the outpouring of the Holy Spirit.
I like the words "on ALL flesh".. All flesh!!! Do you realize how that slaps the devil in the face. I'm all for it!!!! Something big has to happen to wake people up!!

Josh1 · Nov 20, 2003

BYHISGRACE: Thank you Josh, but I am a "she", LOL. Also, I am not a preterist. Used to me, but not anymore.

Sorry about that and about the preterist, I was mainly talking to pericles. I think it is pretty clear that Joel was not fulfilled in Acts. God Bless.

Ben_Hur · Nov 20, 2003

How long were the "last days" supposed to last? Is it defined in scripture? I can't recall.

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 20, 2003

armothe said:
I think the Bible is pretty clear when Peter states that Pentecost was a fulfillment of Joel's words.

-A

What was fullfilled was the out pouring of the Holy Ghost in the upper room. The pouring of His Spirit out on ALL flesh is something different. If this is what you are referring to??? It's not real clear. Also, the sun and moon hadn't done "it's thing" in Peters day, or in Joels day....YET. That points to a future event.

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 20, 2003

Ben_Hur said:
How long were the "last days" supposed to last? Is it defined in scripture? I can't recall.

Are you talking about the tribulation period? As far as just the last days, we are in them now I believe, and there is not a number of days. During the tribulation period, it says, blessed is he that waiteth , and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days..(1335 days), Daniel 12:12

Ben_Hur · Nov 20, 2003

By His Grace said:
Are you talking about the tribulation period? As far as just the last days, we are in them now I believe, and there is not a number of days. During the tribulation period, it says, blessed is he that waiteth , and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days..(1335 days), Daniel 12:12

Perecles quoted this.

"...but THIS is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel. It shall be in the last days, God says, that I will pour forth of my spirit on all mankind" - Acts 2

If these "last days" were not to go all the way out until the end of the world, then how far were they supposed to go? To 70AD? And if those were the "last days," what are these days (today)? The "after last days?" The "end of the age?"

I would expect Perecles would have a reasonable explanation for this, but I've asked two other questions on preterism in this forum and they seem to fall on deaf ears. Oh well....somewhere bewteen DF and preterism I stay.....

Chi_Cygni · Nov 20, 2003

By His Grace said:
First of all, I want to say that the end times is probably one of the most controversial topics ever discussed in religion. Please be kind on this thread, as the other one got locked due to the bickering and name calling. If the fighting starts, I will not hesitate to hit the "report" button. Please, let's be adults on here. We can agree to disagreee, but do it in the love of Christ.
If any of you have been paying attention to the news, we are in a solar period where the sun has solar flares. From what I understand, it is an 11 year cycle, and this one was a bit late. Here is a link from a solar physicist from Nasa, and the title is very interesting: Our Mysterious Sun Goes Haywire. He states in the last paragraph that no one knows, referring to that they don't know what is going to happen during this next phase. The sunspots are now on the earthside.
http://www.rednova.com/news/stories/1/2003/11/13/story001.html
Jesus stated that in the last days, that there would be signs in the heavens and the earth ~ Acts. 2:19-20 ~ And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20) The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come.
We just had the worst fires ever recorded in California history, (fire, vapor of smoke?) We just had a lunar eclipse, (moon into blood ?), as it was red. Now we have the sun doing some things out of the normal. Solar flares in themselves are not abnormal, but this one is something that the scientists have never seen do before. Here is a link to another space site talking about the solar flares, plus other tidbits of space interest: http://www.sunspotcycle.com/
I personally believe that we are fixing to see the book of Joel unfold:
Joel 2:10 ~The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
Love to hear your thoughts on this, even though I am pretty much convinced on mine. .

I addressed these issues at the start of the last thread.

I don't know whether people just want to think they are in the 'end of times' or a just scientifically ignorant.

To repeat:

The peak in the solar cycle WAS 2 years ago. It just so happens we have seen some recent activity which is a little unusual for a period 2 years after the max. BUT IT ISN'T UNKNOWN FOR THIS.

Also, unfortunately, reports on scientific issues on the web, in newspapers, on TV tend towards language that makes good copy. I would say using the words 'mysterious' and 'haywire' in the same sentence is tantamount to fiction. When they say 'no one knows what's going to happen' they mean will we see similar activity or not - NOT WHETHER THE WORLD IS ENDING OR NOT - please don't be paranoid

(These flares are not the largest ever recorded)

The California fires, though tragic, were tiny on a world scale. Much worse fires occur all the time it just so happens these were covered so much due to it being California and the proximity to a large population base. Plus this is totally unrelated to the solar activity.

Lunar eclipses occur approx. every 6 months (well almost.) They always appear red due to refracted sunlight through the Earth's atmosphere illuminating the Moon. These are not special events.

Just like all this end of days prophecy - people have been saying this for 1900 years now. Using earthly and astronomical phenomena to back their viewpoint up. AND GUESS WHAT, IT NEVER COMES TRUE.

People will be doing this 1000 years from now. Also, the vast majority of Christians do not believe this bunkum.

Regards.

PS

Much more dramatic natural phenomena have occurred in the historical past AND we are still here.

Big Mouth Nana · Nov 20, 2003

Ben_Hur said:
Perecles quoted this.

If these "last days" were not to go all the way out until the end of the world, then how far were they supposed to go? To 70AD? And if those were the "last days," what are these days (today)? The "after last days?" The "end of the age?"

I would expect Perecles would have a reasonable explanation for this, but I've asked two other questions on preterism in this forum and they seem to fall on deaf ears. Oh well....somewhere bewteen DF and preterism I stay.....

This is my belief, and I don't expect you or anyone else to agree with me. I believe that when Jesus taught the deciples on the "last days" in Matt. 24:24, that they were in the last days then. The authors of the bible in the old testament spoke of things that were going to happen in the new testement, some of the things in the old haven't happened yet, like Daniel Chptr.12, speaking of the tribulation. I do not use hermenuetics to study the bible, like alot of people do. I take the whole bible as a whole, and read it in it's "simplistic" form. That gets rid of alot of confusion that way.
We have been in the last days for a VERY long time. I would like to know where the "end of the age" is in the bible. It is not listed in my concordance anywhere. Do you know? We are in what is termed the age of grace right now, but even that isn't termed in the bible. Grace yes, but not age of grace. There is the "time of the end", which is the same thing as end times. I believe that the time of the end and end of the world are the same thing. That proves it in this verse: Heb. 9:26 KJV ~ For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the END OF THE WORLD hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. Jesus died in THE END OF THE WORLD, so actually, those people in that time were in the end of the world also. Does this make sense, LOL? Gee, I hope I didn't confuse you more!!!!!!

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