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Recent content by Tatsukun

  1. Tatsukun

    Please help me understand this argument

    Willow, I think we're getting back into the two types of prayer we talked about earlier. Bushmaster has argued that prayers which are a list of things to get are not proper Christian prayers and shouldn't even really be considered prayer. He thus has divided prayer into two catagories...
  2. Tatsukun

    Please help me understand this argument

    Ok, that makes sense as an argument. It seems that while we disagree about the existence of the supernatural realm, we agree that seemingly supernatural events do not prove the existence of any particular god. So can we safely dismiss (render the American meaning of 'moot') the "I know my god...
  3. Tatsukun

    Please help me understand this argument

    Aah, ok, I think I'm with you now. So, if something is unexplainable (supernatural / magical) and good, it might be a miracle from (?your?) god or it might be chance. If something is unexplainable (supernatural / magical) and bad, it might be from "Satan" or might be chance. Is that your...
  4. Tatsukun

    Please help me understand this argument

    Interesting. In the above black box scenario, would you argue that if the mysterious guy is a christian, there is a chance my granny recovering is a miracle from Yahweh, but if he is not a christian, her recovery is an illusion caused by Satan? -Tatsukun
  5. Tatsukun

    Please help me understand this argument

    Whoops, I guess I have to account for non-American English here. I was using "moot" in the "not worth debating, already decided" sort of meaning. I was also using "you" in the "You are saying" line to mean "the people on this board". That's just bad writing, and I apologize. (The sad thing...
  6. Tatsukun

    Please help me understand this argument

    Hmm. Ok. So, in the above black box situation, my granny gets better, so that is either a random natural occurrence, or a miracle from (?your?) god? If I am understanding you, if the man in the story called on inanimate (magic) forces, that would mean granny's recovery had to be a natural...
  7. Tatsukun

    Please help me understand this argument

    Hmm. Sorry, I think you lost me there. Getting back on topic here. Everyone seems to be saying that prayer and magic (assuming magic works) have the same end result (changing the world in supernatural ways), and the only distinction is that magic calls on inanimate forces and prayer calls on...
  8. Tatsukun

    Please help me understand this argument

    Sorry, I am not sure I 100% followed that. Are you saying that Jesus Christ has magic / super powers, but chose not to use them for some moral reason? That's certainly a common thread throughout mythology, but I don't usually hear it applied to Jesus. I always learn interesting things on this...
  9. Tatsukun

    Please help me understand this argument

    Hmm. Interesting. So I assume you believe prayer can have an effect on the world. Do you believe there is such a thing as magic as well? -Tatsukun
  10. Tatsukun

    Please help me understand this argument

    Yeah, Humble, sorry about that. I think I slipped a gear there and forgot the second half of your user name (and the info next to it). It is interesting to me to hear you use this phrase though. I have heard a lot of christians use it to refer to the resurection story of Jesus. In fact, I have...
  11. Tatsukun

    Please help me understand this argument

    (Bold added) Well, ok. I can see that you're drawing a pretty strict line between the two, and bacing that on who is actually doing the work. So how do you feel about native american shamen, who called on the winds, or Voodoo priests who call on the spirits, or even a religious person who...
  12. Tatsukun

    Please help me understand this argument

    Humble (I am calling you "Humble" because "Muslim" seemed a bit odd as a name), thanks for that list. It's interesting to see how people break things down. But, I always did include asking a god to do things that are beyond human control as magic. If you have a minute, could you read my above...
  13. Tatsukun

    Please help me understand this argument

    Well, asking your brother for $20 and getting it certainly isn't magical (unless your brother is like mine). But, sure, I get your point. For theists, I am assuming (always dangerous I know) that asking a god for something is a lot like asking your brother for something. But do you see how a...
  14. Tatsukun

    Please help me understand this argument

    Oh, I see where we're not connecting. I am including in my definition of magic requests of supernatural powers (think Voodoo or a rain dance). Do you agree that this type of act (which I am calling magic) is not really distinguishable from prayer (again, using the type 2 prayer laid out by...
  15. Tatsukun

    Please help me understand this argument

    Bushmaster, thanks for another very detailed and interesting post. But, I am not sure it's that related to the original question. Then again, maybe I am just missing the connection. I'm not wondering why people pray. I am wondering about the difference between "prayer" (the kind that is...
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