• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Recent content by Econ4every1

  1. E

    Objective morality, can it exist? Sort of....

    Of course, they do, but those choices happen for two (and possibly more) reasons. 1) Increases or decreases in knowledge 2) Changes in the environment (e.g. people are more likely to be charitable in times of plenty). There are behaviors and actions we take as humans where we limit or distort...
  2. E

    Objective morality, can it exist? Sort of....

    Values arise as a result of our awareness of how our conscious actions and the actions of others affect us all. But here's the thing, you're explanation, calling things "just a preference" fails to capture the fact that healthy minds prefer some things more than others, universally, and these...
  3. E

    Objective morality, can it exist? Sort of....

    Values arise as a result of our desires or as you put it, preference. But my questions to you in return are: 1) How do you chose what you prefer? 2) Do you prefer all things equally or would you say you'd rank your preferences from lesser to greater? 3)Do you think you could choose to prefer...
  4. E

    Objective morality, can it exist? Sort of....

    You're smarter than that. You know what I meant, do I really need to explain that?
  5. E

    Objective morality, can it exist? Sort of....

    Who cares what I value? No one, until what I value affects you. Enter the concept of morality.
  6. E

    Objective morality, can it exist? Sort of....

    No, they don't. Let's take a look at other systems of rules we've created. Look at a clock. Whatever time it is, let's say 11:23am. Is it objectively 11:23am? Well, in the confines of the universe it isn't, but within the shared system of time, it is. If you say, we'll, I have my own time...
  7. E

    Objective morality, can it exist? Sort of....

    I think that morality is an expression of shared values in social groups. Within the context of people's desires, let's say the shared desire not to suffer, then within the context of that desire, there are objectively right and wrong ways to accomplish the goal of not suffering.
  8. E

    Objective morality, can it exist? Sort of....

    You can, but that's not how morality works. All you need to do to demonstrate this is: Go to a party with lots of your friends, be obnoxious, double-dip, get drunk, pee on the floor, puke on the host and then declare that your behavior was exemplary. See, morality, despite some who claim...
  9. E

    Objective morality, can it exist? Sort of....

    Ok, sure I can agree with that. But when it comes to morality, truly objective morality is impossible because only subjects can value. To say that subjects can be objectively correct is not really what I was talking about. Make sense?
  10. E

    Objective morality, can it exist? Sort of....

    Because that is what morality is, it is when groups come together and agree on things that are right and wrong. Here's where people fall off the rails. I'm not saying what a group defines as moral is moral, rather that people share basic values like "freedom from suffering". The capacity to...
  11. E

    Objective morality, can it exist? Sort of....

    Indeed, we do things like this already. We know what sickness looks like and we place illnesses on an intuitive scale. I know that Lung Cancer is worse than Chicken Pox, even though I can't tell you every illness and how it compares to others or quantify what a scale might look like.
  12. E

    Objective morality, can it exist? Sort of....

    Ok, so let's go back. I said: "To be objective the value judgment would have to come from the object being valued, and that’s not possible.” You said: Objects cannot have opinions. That makes the idea that people are "objects" logically incoherent. Now, I'm not sure where you're going...
  13. E

    Objective morality, can it exist? Sort of....

    Morals arise as a result of the values we hold. Values relate to our experience. We place a higher value on things that have to do with avoiding unnecessary suffering, harm, and sickness. These things exist on a continuum. So, if faced with immeasurable suffering, how might the choice...
  14. E

    Objective morality, can it exist? Sort of....

    Sure they're subjective, I already conceded that, but let's take Sam Harris" example and see where we come out. Imagine a universe where every conscious creature suffers as much as possible for as long as possible. Is that "bad"? Is it just my value system telling me that's bad and the fact...