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Of course, they do, but those choices happen for two (and possibly more) reasons. 1) Increases or decreases in knowledge 2) Changes in the environment (e.g. people are more likely to be charitable in times of plenty). There are behaviors and actions we take as humans where we limit or distort...

Values arise as a result of our awareness of how our conscious actions and the actions of others affect us all. But here's the thing, you're explanation, calling things "just a preference" fails to capture the fact that healthy minds prefer some things more than others, universally, and these...

Values arise as a result of our desires or as you put it, preference. But my questions to you in return are: 1) How do you chose what you prefer? 2) Do you prefer all things equally or would you say you'd rank your preferences from lesser to greater? 3)Do you think you could choose to prefer...

You're smarter than that. You know what I meant, do I really need to explain that?

See above :)

Who cares what I value? No one, until what I value affects you. Enter the concept of morality.

No, they don't. Let's take a look at other systems of rules we've created. Look at a clock. Whatever time it is, let's say 11:23am. Is it objectively 11:23am? Well, in the confines of the universe it isn't, but within the shared system of time, it is. If you say, we'll, I have my own time...

I think that morality is an expression of shared values in social groups. Within the context of people's desires, let's say the shared desire not to suffer, then within the context of that desire, there are objectively right and wrong ways to accomplish the goal of not suffering.

You can, but that's not how morality works. All you need to do to demonstrate this is: Go to a party with lots of your friends, be obnoxious, double-dip, get drunk, pee on the floor, puke on the host and then declare that your behavior was exemplary. See, morality, despite some who claim...

Ok, sure I can agree with that. But when it comes to morality, truly objective morality is impossible because only subjects can value. To say that subjects can be objectively correct is not really what I was talking about. Make sense?

Because that is what morality is, it is when groups come together and agree on things that are right and wrong. Here's where people fall off the rails. I'm not saying what a group defines as moral is moral, rather that people share basic values like "freedom from suffering". The capacity to...

Indeed, we do things like this already. We know what sickness looks like and we place illnesses on an intuitive scale. I know that Lung Cancer is worse than Chicken Pox, even though I can't tell you every illness and how it compares to others or quantify what a scale might look like.

Ok, so let's go back. I said: "To be objective the value judgment would have to come from the object being valued, and that’s not possible.” You said: Objects cannot have opinions. That makes the idea that people are "objects" logically incoherent. Now, I'm not sure where you're going...

Morals arise as a result of the values we hold. Values relate to our experience. We place a higher value on things that have to do with avoiding unnecessary suffering, harm, and sickness. These things exist on a continuum. So, if faced with immeasurable suffering, how might the choice...

Sure they're subjective, I already conceded that, but let's take Sam Harris" example and see where we come out. Imagine a universe where every conscious creature suffers as much as possible for as long as possible. Is that "bad"? Is it just my value system telling me that's bad and the fact...

Sweet, we agree completely. I'm not saying that the statement is objective outside of the context of human subjects and the value statements they make. It's simple and I don't know why this claim is the result of so much consternation. Morality concerns subjects, not objects. Within the...

We can stop here, people are subjects, not objects. You can't redefine words for the sake of a discussion.

I think we're in agreement. When I say it's an opinion, I mean that human survival isn't an objective cause when viewed from a non-human point-of-view. However, since humans largely agree on just a small handful of base values, there are real objective ways to achieve the goals we set to...

I'm just jumping into the middle of your convo because I want to address is/ ought... You brought it up in thread I started and I never took the time to address it. If you don't mind, I'd like to do that now. When it comes to morality there must be some decision made of what to value which, I...

Almost anyone that might click on this topic is people who aren't indifferent. It's like standing at a football game in the crowd and judging how people feel about football from that point of view. Forums tend to be like "being at the game".