Trump administration says sign language services ‘intrude’ on Trump’s ability to control his image

[ThatRobGuy]

How is this an open border policy? An open border policy would be that all that come are welcome, would it not?

"as long as you can make it to a port of entry, you can apply for asylum and wait inside the US for your hearing that will be in 7 years if you're lucky" combined with halting deportations, is in essence, a pretty open border.

All of his policies (and previous policy reversals) equated to millions of people coming in.

...Biden's border policies being weak is something that the democrats have recognized and acknowledged as well, hence the reason they tried to pivot on the issue a few months before the 2024 election when they saw they were getting clobbered in the polls on that issue.

Did she propose to dissolve the FBI or any other federal law enforcement agency as a candidate? What does defund the police mean if it is not the plain interpretation of the text?

"Defund the police" is another one of those semantic overload games. Where defenders of it will say "No no no, it just means redirect some funding" when pushed back on. But make it pretty clear that their position more resembles the literal semantic definition when the activism "rubber meets the road".

Evidenced by what happened to Mayors Jenny Durkan and Jacob Frey. They both gave lip service and vocal support to the "Defund the police movement".

But when Frey said "well no, I'm not actually going to get rid of the police, I'm just going to redirect funds" he got booed of the stage by the crowd.

And when Durkan did the same, she ended up with hundreds of protestors outside her house.

So did he campaign on it?

No, he waited until after he got elected to spring those fun little surprises on people. He campaigned as a moderate, which is how he tricked me (and people like me) into voting for him in 2020.

You are reaching here, how is this some kind public position that everyone should be going to storytelling sessions?

If a candidate shows up at an NRA event and gives a keynote speech saying nothing but good things about unrestricted firearm ownership, do they need to put an "official position" about it on their campaign website in order for people accurately ascertain what their position is on guns?

 

[Stopped_lurking]

"as long as you can make it to a port of entry, you can apply for asylum and wait inside the US for your hearing that will be in 7 years if you're lucky" combined with halting deportations, is in essence, a pretty open border.

That is literally how it works in Sweden, speed up the asylum process is the solution. Everyone should be afforded the possibility of applying for asylum. And that is not in essence an open border, you are using the opponents to Bidens policies nomenclature.

All of his policies (and previous policy reversals) equated to millions of people coming in.


...Biden's border policies being weak is something that the democrats have recognized and acknowledged as well, hence the reason they tried to pivot on the issue a few months before the 2024 election when they saw they were getting clobbered in the polls on that issue.

"Defund the police" is another one of those semantic overload games. Where defenders of it will say "No no no, it just means redirect some funding" when pushed back on. But make it pretty clear that their position more resembles the literal semantic definition when the activism "rubber meets the road".

Evidenced by what happened to Mayors Jenny Durkan and Jacob Frey. They both gave lip service and vocal support to the "Defund the police movement".

But when Frey said "well no, I'm not actually going to get rid of the police, I'm just going to redirect funds" he got booed of the stage by the crowd.

And when Durkan did the same, she ended up with hundreds of protestors outside her house.

So they didn't actually want to defund the police, did Kamala Harris or Joe Biden actually want to defund the police?

No, he waited until after he got elected to spring those fun little surprises on people. He campaigned as a moderate, which is how he tricked me (and people like me) into voting for him in 2020.

If a candidate shows up at an NRA event and gives a keynote speech saying nothing but good things about unrestricted firearm ownership, do they need to put an "official position" about it on their campaign website in order for people accurately ascertain what their position is on guns?

Did Kamala Harris give a keynote speech about storytelling sessions?

 

[Bradskii]

And anyone saying that he's the "worst president in the history of the country" is expressing an opinion...

Reality is obviously taking a back seat for some. The man cannot drag the position of President any lower. Just look at his comments yesterday about Rob Reiner. He is truly beneath contempt.

 

[FreeinChrist]

<blink>

Uh... ASL is an english language based sign. My sister's first husband was deaf from birth and he had no issues understanding jokes based off the English language. The only issue he had was puns based of phonetics.

Yep, it is English based, but many of the signs are based on French words because it started in the US when T.H. Gallaudet and L. Clerc brought French sign language to the US. Signed English is a bit more difficult and most deaf folks know ASL instead.

Deaf folks don't get jokes based on puns or noises. But they have their own way of joking that leaves out the hearing folks.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Reality is obviously taking a back seat for some. The man cannot drag the position of President any lower. Just look at his comments yesterday about Rob Reiner. He is truly beneath contempt.

That's worse than say....

Owning slaves?... or Issuing proclamations that say that for $200 current American dollars, you can scalp a native and turn in the scalps to prove that you cleared them out of the way for expansion? Or things like the Teapot Dome scandal?

 

[FreeinChrist]

It is toxic empathy, that causes people to make a kerfuffle about this, IMO.

Yeah, forget the Americans with Disabilities Act. Who cares about laws?

Who cares if the deaf are able to understand the message, or if they are held back from political discourse, or civic participation?

REAL Americans can hear fully and are not deaf or hard of hearing is what I get from posts like yours. (sarcasm)

The lack of caring about the disabled like deaf and whether their rights are protected comes off to me as as the opposite of empathy. I don't think that attitude reflects Christ at all.

 

[FreeinChrist]

This thread sure got off topic.

Do those who think Trump should be like this realize that there is the Americans with Disabilities Act?

How about how unlawful it is for a president, who ignores a law?

How about how stupid it is to worry that an interpreter hurts a president's image?

 

[BCP1928]

That's worse than say....

Owning slaves?... or Issuing proclamations that say that for $200 current American dollars, you can scalp a native and turn in the scalps to prove that you cleared them out of the way for expansion? Or things like the Teapot Dome scandal?

You have to consider the context. We don't scalp native Americans any more and would regard someone who did so as degenerate. Likewise, these days we expect more civil discourse from our President than we do from a popular entertainer turned political activist.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

This thread sure got off topic.

Do those who thing Trump should be like this realize that there is the Americans with Disabilities Act?

How about how unlawful it is for a president, who ignores a law?

How about how stupid it is to worry that an interpreter hurts a president's image?

Obviously there's an Americans with disabilities act, nobody is denying that.

Was every president before 2020 violating it?

October 1, the date the order went into effect, was "the first time in history that any President of the United States has provided live American Sign Language (ASL) interpretation for any televised press briefing," according to the NAD.

And that was in response to an order by a single Judge, and appeared to be within the scope of Covid briefings.

In September, the administration was ordered by a federal district court to include an ASL interpreter for public briefings that addressed COVID-19, according to The Associated Press.


And this latest dust-up is the result of yet again, a single federal judge (a Biden appointee) issuing an injunction with sweeping implications that one could potentially argue goes way beyond the originally intended scope.
(and that's why people are getting fed up with the forum shopping that takes place in the US federal court system)

And it's based on a very loose interpretation of the ADA.

"The White House's failure to provide qualified ASL interpreters during public briefings, press conferences, and related events is against the law," it reads. "Federal law unequivocally prohibits discrimination against individuals with disabilities and requires them to have meaningful access to the federal government's programs and services. Failing to provide ASL interpreters deprives deaf people meaningful access to the White House's press briefings."

That loose interpretation being "not relaying the information in the preferred modality" = "discrimination"

For example, colorblindness would be protected under the ADA. Not having a "colorblind-friendly" version of all visual aid materials in a presentation isn't "discrimination", nor is it any sort of malicious hostility toward the colorblind if a president or press secretary said "eh, I don't want to do all of these charts and diagrams in random clashing colors, it's not going to look good, and I want this presentation to look polished"

In other words.

Was this Obama discriminating against the color blind community by using a few color choices that are often indistinguishable from other colors (to color blind people) as part of his presentation?

 

[Bradskii]

That's worse than say....

I'm actually reluctant to say that he's worse than any president in living memory because it suggests that there is something there worth comparing.

I'll say it again. He's beneath contempt.

 

[durangodawood]

.....How about how stupid it is to worry that an interpreter hurts a president's image?

I think its pretty canny actually, for the reason I outlined in post #38.

 

[Belk]

Yep, it is English based, but many of the signs are based on French words because it started in the US when T.H. Gallaudet and L. Clerc brought French sign language to the US. Signed English is a bit more difficult and most deaf folks know ASL instead.

Deaf folks don't get jokes based on puns or noises. But they have their own way of joking that leaves out the hearing folks.

Do you work with deaf folks?

 

[RileyG]

Trump administration says sign language services 'intrude' on Trump's ability to control his image

The Trump administration argues that providing real-time American Sign Language interpretation for events like White House press briefings would intrude on the president’s control over his public image.

apnews.com

The Trump administration is arguing that requiring real-time American Sign Language interpretation of events like White House press briefings “would severely intrude on the President’s prerogative to control the image he presents to the public,” part of a lawsuit seeking to require the White House to provide the services.​

​

Department of Justice attorneys haven’t elaborated on how doing so might hamper the portrayal President Donald Trump seeks to present to the public. But overturning policies encompassing diversity, equity and inclusion have become a hallmark of his second administration, starting with his very first week back in the White House.​

​

The National Association for the Deaf sued the Trump administration in May, arguing that the cessation of American Sign Language interpretation — which the Biden administration had used regularly — represented “denying hundreds of thousands of deaf Americans meaningful access to the White House’s real-time communications on various issues of national and international import.” The group also sued during Trump’s first administration, seeking ASL interpretation for briefings related to the COVID-19 pandemic.​

​

What image is that, Mr. President?

What an odd statement.

 

[Hans Blaster]

In other words.

Was this Obama discriminating against the color blind community by using a few color choices that are often indistinguishable from other colors (to color blind people) as part of his presentation?

His chart is an abomination even to those of us with full 3-color vision.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Obviously there's an Americans with disabilities act, nobody is denying that.

Was every president before 2020 violating it?

October 1, the date the order went into effect, was "the first time in history that any President of the United States has provided live American Sign Language (ASL) interpretation for any televised press briefing," according to the NAD.

And that was in response to an order by a single Judge, and appeared to be within the scope of Covid briefings.

That referred to a press briefing and not regular speeches. In regards to the SOTU and other important speeches, there is closed captioning and often picture in picture feed that the deaf can get.
That decision for Oct. 1st was when Trump was in office before and the National Association for the Deaf had been suing the Trump administration as they could not get any service at all and wanted an interpreter.

What is silly is that it is all about Trump's image, and his desire to control it. As if having an interpreter on the side makes him look bad!

In September, the administration was ordered by a federal district court to include an ASL interpreter for public briefings that addressed COVID-19, according to The Associated Press.


And this latest dust-up is the result of yet again, a single federal judge (a Biden appointee) issuing an injunction with sweeping implications that one could potentially argue goes way beyond the originally intended scope.
(and that's why people are getting fed up with the forum shopping that takes place in the US federal court system)

Yes, September 2020 when Trump was president and usually failed to provide some service for the hearing impaired.

And it's based on a very loose interpretation of the ADA.

"The White House's failure to provide qualified ASL interpreters during public briefings, press conferences, and related events is against the law," it reads. "Federal law unequivocally prohibits discrimination against individuals with disabilities and requires them to have meaningful access to the federal government's programs and services. Failing to provide ASL interpreters deprives deaf people meaningful access to the White House's press briefings."

That loose interpretation being "not relaying the information in the preferred modality" = "discrimination"

For example, colorblindness would be protected under the ADA. Not having a "colorblind-friendly" version of all visual aid materials in a presentation isn't "discrimination", nor is it any sort of malicious hostility toward the colorblind if a president or press secretary said "eh, I don't want to do all of these charts and diagrams in random clashing colors, it's not going to look good, and I want this presentation to look polished"

In other words.
View attachment 374590

Was this Obama discriminating against the color blind community by using a few color choices that are often indistinguishable from other colors (to color blind people) as part of his presentation?

Was he? What exact shades of red or green are affected by color blindness.
Also the picture is blurry, what was written in each of the boxes?

Color blindness is not covered under the ADA unless it significantly affects a major life activity and I don't think they have an association that has made an issue of it in court. Plus the people with it can usually hear.

 

[FreeinChrist]

I'm actually reluctant to say that he's worse than any president in living memory because it suggests that there is something there worth comparing.

I'll say it again. He's beneath contempt.

I was born when Truman was president and Trump is the worst one I have ever seen or read about. Johnson, who followed Lincoln, was bad.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Do you work with deaf folks?

I have, and I took a few years of college ASL but I had issues with being an interpreter. As I aged, or due to MS, it was harder to read someone doing sign than sign what I wanted to say. It is hard to do it fast, and people do talk fast. But I worked with deaf students and even a deaf Girl Scout troop as a school nurse.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Yeah, forget the Americans with Disabilities Act. Who cares about laws?

Who cares if the deaf are able to understand the message, or if they are held back from political discourse, or civic participation?

REAL Americans can hear fully and are not deaf or hard of hearing is what I get from posts like yours. (sarcasm)

The lack of caring about the disabled like deaf and whether their rights are protected comes off to me as as the opposite of empathy. I don't think that attitude reflects Christ at all.

I hope you don't really think anyone is so bitter and mean, that they think the deaf are somehow lesser human beings than others - I certainly don't.

I just see easy ways around this, like talk-to-text, or even T.V screens with written text on a wall somewhere, where the deaf can read it.

...That's why IMO, this issue is being blown out of proportion, in ways undeserving.

 

[Belk]

I have, and I took a few years of college ASL but I had issues with being an interpreter. As I aged, or due to MS, it was harder to read someone doing sign than sign what I wanted to say. It is hard to do it fast, and people do talk fast. But I worked with deaf students and even a deaf Girl Scout troop as a school nurse.

Respect to you. It is no easy task to teach those and layering a disability on top makes it even more of a challenge.