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Do the Ten Commandments apply to Christians today?

BobRyan

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Not what I asked. And again you cannot prove that the wicked that died during Noah did not take Gods name in vain.
you are not following the details in the discussion.

I said the command to not take God's name in vain is not recorded before Ex 20 , yet it would be a sin going all the way back to Eden.
Obviously.
Read verse 28. Jesus became the Lord of the Sabbath.
Does not read "Jesus BECAME the Lord of the Sabbath" as we all know. Probably why you are not actually quoting these

"The Son of man IS LORD of the Sabbath" is not how we say "The Son of man BECAME the Lord of the Sabbath". You are missing a lot of details in this discussion.

Heb 8 says it is Christ giving the commandments at Sinai.

Follow the details .... then you will see.
What commandments? Show me the verse that contains the list of commandments before Moses?
Moses is the one that records in Genesis that God told Isaac that Abraham kept His Commandments.

And as I showed you before both the Baptist Confession of Faith AND the Westminster Confession of Faith confirm that it is God giving the TEN in Eden.

Mark 2 says "the Sabbath was made for MANKIND not MANKIND MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27, which speaks to the making of both in Gen 1-2. Obviously.

You are stuck with "Sabbath made just for Jews" which is absolutely not the teaching of Christ in Mark 2:27 or in Isaiah 66;23.

You are missing wayyy too many details even after they are pointed out.
How about the 4th commandment, did anyone keep it before Moses?
All Ten of them ...

Even the Christian Confessions of Faith affirm it. You are going wayyy out on a limb
Nonsense. No one read Genesis or Exodus before the 15th century BCE
God existed before Moses.
You are missing wayyy too many details

Thank God the Christian Confessions of Faith can admit the obvious even if you claim you don't understand
 
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BobRyan

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The only reason "creation WEEK" is a 7 day week is because of Gen 2:1-3 the SEVENTH day of that week that Ex 20:11 says was the actual SABBATH being made, blessed, sanctified.

Nonsense.
Try getting the easy and obvious part of this discussion. Even the Christian Confessions of Faith don't struggle with the obvious details that you claim not to see.
No one read Genesis or Exodus before the 15th century BCE
Adam and Eve were held accountable in Gen 3 for what God said in Gen 2 even though Moses had not yet been born. Clearly they did not have to wait for Moses to be born to hear what God had said.

Obviously. Christians at a very young age read the text and can figure that out.

You know this is glaringly obvious at this point, and you know we can all see this detail. Why not be serious??

You keep circling back to some 'game' quips instead of dealing with the topic.
 
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Hentenza

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you are not following the details in the discussion.

I said the command to not take God's name in vain is not recorded before Ex 20 , yet it would be a sin going all the way back to Eden.
Obviously.
And I told you before that you are making an argument from silence which as you know is quite the fallacy. You need to follow the details of the discussion.
Does not read "Jesus BECAME the Lord of the Sabbath" as we all know. Probably why you are not actually quoting these

"The Son of man IS LORD of the Sabbath" is not how we say "The Son of man BECAME the Lord of the Sabbath". You are missing a lot of details in this discussion.
Oh brother. I guess you guys have the cookie cutter argument.

“Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2‬:‭27‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Again, the sabbath was made for man. Jesus became man and as God and man is Lord of the Sabbath. Nothing you can say here can change this fact.
Heb 8 says it is Christ giving the commandments at Sinai.
Nope. Jesus ushered in a new covenant. The old covenant has faded away. God has given the Son all authority.

“And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭18‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
Follow the details .... then you will see.
You follow.
Moses is the one that records in Genesis that God told Isaac that Abraham kept His Commandments.
Which commandments? Give me the list with book and verse.
And as I showed you before both the Baptist Confession of Faith AND the Westminster Confession of Faith confirm that it is God giving the TEN in Eden.
You did not show what you think you did and you continue with your straw man.
Mark 2 says "the Sabbath was made for MANKIND not MANKIND MADE for the Sabbath" Mark 2:27, which speaks to the making of both in Gen 1-2. Obviously.
Of course the sabbath was made for man and Jesus became man and Lord of the sabbath. Keep up with the discussion.
You are stuck with "Sabbath made just for Jews" which is absolutely not the teaching of Christ in Mark 2:27 or in Isaiah 66;23.
So show me where the sabbath was kept before Moses. It should be simple for you since you are so sure that you are right.
You are missing wayyy too many details even after they are pointed out.
And yet you still have not posted a verse that shows that anyone kept the sabbath before Moses or that the law was given to the gentiles collectively. Why is that?
All Ten of them ...

Even the Christian Confessions of Faith affirm it. You are going wayyy out on a limb

God existed before Moses.
You are missing wayyy too many details

Thank God the Christian Confessions of Faith can admit the obvious even if you claim you don't understand
I’ve already explained and rebuked your argument regarding the confessions. Why is it that you did not addressed what I wrote?
 
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Hentenza

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Adam and Eve were held accountable in Gen 3 for what God said in Gen 2 even though Moses had not yet been born. Clearly they did not have to wait for Moses to be born to hear what God had said.
God told them and it is written. No sabbath though. I’m done with your circular logic and argument from silence. The only thing that can win the argument for you is to post a verse that shows people keeping the sabbath before Moses and a verse showing which commandments Abraham kept (maybe the Noahic law?). And then while you are at it post a verse that shows that the Mosaic law including the Ten Commandments was given to the gentiles collectively. I’ve been asking for these verse for quite some time but you either keep ignoring the requests or simply can not comply because they don’t exist. Which one is it?
 
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BobRyan

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Adam and Eve were held accountable in Gen 3 for what God said in Gen 2 even though Moses had not yet been born. Clearly they did not have to wait for Moses to be born to hear what God had said.

Obviously. Christians at a very young age read the text and can figure that out.
God said to Cain "sin is at your door you must overcome it" in Gen 3 , even before the command against murder is recorded in the book of Moses.

Genesis is not an exhaustive account of very word spoken for the first 2000 years of human history. Obviously.

No wonder we have so much agreement on the TEN in the OT across every major Christian denomination.

Almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..

* - 10 as-is or else in edited form

=============== it just does not get any easier than this

No sabbath though.
Sabbath was "MADE FOR MANKIND" not mankind MADE for the Sabbath Mark 2:27 speaks of the MAKING of both , when both were made during creation week.
I’m done with your circular logic and argument from silence. The only thing that can win the argument for you is to post a verse that shows people keeping the sabbath before Moses

Right next to the verse where God commands mankind not to take God's name in vain before Exodus 20. That sort of game is not a funny kind of proof that it was ok to take God's name in vain.

No wonder the Sabbath is in Exodus 16 , even before the TEN are given.

No wonder the clean and unclean distinction is in the history of mankind in Gen 7 long before Lev 11 is written

hint. Most readers can see this point.
and a verse showing which commandments Abraham kept (maybe the Noahic law?)
It is seen each time we find that same phrase used in the books of Moses "My Commandments, My statutes and My Laws" Gen 26:5 a phrase used repeatedly in the books of Moses.
. And then while you are at it post a verse that shows that the Mosaic law including the Ten Commandments was given to the gentiles
Eph 6:1-2 the unit of TEN is the only place where we see the Eph 6 statement hold true and .
Mark 2:27 "Sabbath made for mankind"
Is 66:23 Sabbath to be kept by all mankind
Acts 13 believing gentiles specifically ask for more gospel preaching to be scheduled for them on "The next Sabbath"
collectively. I’ve been asking for these verse for quite some time but you either keep ignoring the requests or simply can not comply because they don’t exist. Which one is it?
 
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Hentenza

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God said to Cain "sin is at your door you must overcome it" in Gen 3 , even before the command against murder is recorded in the book of Moses.
Did Cain keep the sabbath?
Genesis is not an exhaustive account of very word spoken for the first 2000 years of human history. Obviously.
That’s true which means that you can’t use it to dogmatically prove a doctrine. Arguments from silence do not work.
No wonder we have so much agreement on the TEN in the OT across every major Christian denomination.

Almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today

[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul
[*]many others as well..

* - 10 as-is or else in edited form
None of these denominations or people keep the sabbath on Saturday nor do they teach the Jewish Sabbath. We’ve been through this before. Now what?
=============== it just does not get any easier than this
It does for me.
Sabbath was "MADE FOR MANKIND" not mankind MADE for the Sabbath Mark 2:27 speaks of the MAKING of both , when both were made during creation week.
“Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord, even of the Sabbath.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭2‬:‭27‬-‭28‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Don’t forget to include the result of verse 27. Because the sabbath was made for man, Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. Did you not account for the “so” at the beginning of verse 28?
Right next to the verse where God commands mankind not to take God's name in vain before Exodus 20. That sort of game is not a funny kind of proof that it was ok to take God's name in vain.

No wonder the Sabbath is in Exodus 16 , even before the TEN are given.

No wonder the clean and unclean distinction is in the history of mankind in Gen 7 long before Lev 11 is written

hint. Most readers can see this point.
Not really. Most readers don’t read your pet doctrine into scripture. You still did not post a verse stating that anyone kept the sabbath before Moses.

“Then the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a day’s portion every day, so that I may test them, whether or not they will walk in My instruction. On the sixth day, when they prepare what they bring in, it will be twice as much as they gather daily.””
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭16‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

The Lord gave the instructions on what to gather per day and to gather twice as much on the sixth day. First time they had received such an instruction.

“Now on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. When all the leaders of the congregation came and told Moses, then he said to them, “This is what the Lord meant: Tomorrow is a Sabbath observance, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning.” So they put it aside until morning, as Moses had ordered, and it did not stink nor was there a maggot in it. Then Moses said, “Eat it today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.””
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭16‬:‭22‬-‭26‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Notice that the people came to Moses after gathering twice as much not knowing why or what to do with it. Moses had to explain to them what the sabbath was and how they were to prepare it. In fact Moses had to tell them not to try to gather on the 7th day because there would be nothing to gather but some tried anyway.

These people did not know what the sabbath was or how to keep it because they never had before. Not only that but this was just a rest sabbath without any of the restrictions of the law that would come later when Moses wrote the Torah.

Again, post a verse that shows anyone keeping the sabbath BEFORE Moses. Exodus 16 actually defeats your argument.

It is seen each time we find that same phrase used in the books of Moses "My Commandments, My statutes and My Laws" Gen 26:5 a phrase used repeatedly in the books of Moses.
What commandments, what statutes, what laws? Post them.
Eph 6:1-2 the unit of TEN is the only place where we see the Eph 6 statement hold true and .
The unit of ten is not depicted in Eph. 6:1-2. Only one commandment is mentioned.

“Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), so that it may turn out well for you, and that you may live long on the earth. Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6‬:‭1‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
Mark 2:27 "Sabbath made for mankind"
See above.
Is 66:23 Sabbath to be kept by all mankind
The audience here is Israel and this is part of the old covenant. The future time is most likely talking about the new heavens and new earth, where all people will consistently worship God from month to month (new moons) and week to week (Sabbaths).
Acts 13 believing gentiles specifically ask for more gospel preaching to be scheduled for them on "The next Sabbath"
The people that begged Paul and Barnabas to preach to them the next sabbath day were the Jews not the gentiles.

“After the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the synagogue officials sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.” As Paul and Barnabas were going out, the people repeatedly begged to have these things spoken to them the next Sabbath.


As you can see the synagogue officials are the ones that invited Paul to preach on the next Sabbath.


The next Sabbath nearly all the city assembled to hear the word of the Lord. But when the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and began contradicting the things spoken by Paul, and were blaspheming. Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first. Since you repudiate it and consider yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and all who had been appointed to eternal life believed.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭13‬:‭15‬, ‭42‬, ‭44‬-‭46‬, ‭48‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

The gentiles from the city would gather outside of the synagogue. After the Jews saw the crowds and got jealous Paul tells them what Jesus Himself had taught which was to preach to the Jews first and then to the gentiles. The gentiles, who were not of the law, were delighted and believed.

These verses do not help your argument.
 
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