Why do people hate ICE...

[BPPLEE]

The etymology of Allah is that. Muslims are technically heretics. It’s basically Arianism.

That's true. But I don't believe Allah is the same as Yahweh

 

[Desk trauma]

The House of Representatives doesn't have any "lictors" as it isn't ancient Rome. Please start talking sense.

With how sneaky they can be there could be lurking.

 

[jonojim1337]

That's true. But I don't believe Allah is the same as Yahweh

Entirely depends on how you use the word. By the Muslim definition no, clearly not the same since their Allah came with a clearly blasphemous and heretical doctrine.

That being said, Jews say YHWH is their ’Eloah’ and that is clearly false as well.

 

[jonojim1337]

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With how sneaky they can be there could be lurking.

 

[Desk trauma]

View attachment 374453

Pickles.

 

[jonojim1337]

Pickles.

 

[Desk trauma]

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Kimchi.

 

[jonojim1337]

Kimchi.

Kimchi denied.

 

[Desk trauma]

Kimchi denied.

View attachment 374456

Gherkins.

 

[jonojim1337]

Gherkins.

Brits are way out of line.

 

[Desk trauma]

Brits are way out of line.

Kisla Kapusta

 

[ViaCrucis]

We Americans decide what is American just like the Irish get to decide what is Irish or the French get decide what is French. Not sure what you don’t understand about that.

Which Americans get to decide who is an American? Because "We Americans" have a pretty bad track record.

Here are some people who "We Americans" have historically decided weren't American:

Black people
Irish people
Italians
Jews
Chinese people
Hispanic people
Muslims

 

[Pommer]

That's true. But I don't believe Allah is the same as Yahweh

I’m fairly certain that Muslims believe that Yahweh and Allah are the same Being.
Whatever it is that you, personally, know about the subject, you might not be…correct, based on the fact we’re talking about how other people believe.

 

[BPPLEE]

I’m fairly certain that Muslims believe that Yahweh and Allah are the same Being.
Whatever it is that you, personally, know about the subject, you might not be…correct, based on the fact we’re talking about how other people believe.

What they believe has no bearing on what I believe

 

[jonojim1337]

I’m fairly certain that Muslims believe that Yahweh and Allah are the same Being.
Whatever it is that you, personally, know about the subject, you might not be…correct, based on the fact we’re talking about how other people believe.

That would be an oxymoron if you see my profile picture.

 

[jonojim1337]

Which Americans get to decide who is an American? Because "We Americans" have a pretty bad track record.

Here are some people who "We Americans" have historically decided weren't American:

Black people
Irish people
Italians
Jews
Chinese people
Hispanic people
Muslims

 

[Desk trauma]

View attachment 374480

Well…

 

[rjs330]

I’m fairly certain that Muslims believe that Yahweh and Allah are the same Being.
Whatever it is that you, personally, know about the subject, you might not be…correct, based on the fact we’re talking about how other people believe.

No true Muslim can be a Christian.

 

[jonojim1337]

No true Muslim can be a Christian.

 

[ViaCrucis]

No true Muslim can be a Christian.

That's how mutually exclusive faith claims tend to work.

The debate about whether Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship the same God or not requires some finagling. Do different beliefs about God translate to, functionally, talking about entirely different "Gods"? Do Jews worship a different God than Christians because as Christians we believe in the Holy Trinity, that Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity who became flesh, and is the Messiah? The idea that Jews and Christians worship different "Gods" seems like a radically foreign concept to me. Yet we have a completely analogous case in the religion of Islam, which speaks of the same God of Abraham, but beliefs about that God are different (even including on things like who was promised son of Abraham, Isaac or Ishmael)--but it is quite common to say Muslims worship a different God than Christians (or Jews and Christians).

What is the objective criteria for determining where to draw the line between "different beliefs about God" and "believing in a different God"? Like the line seems pretty clear when we're talking about ancient Pagan religious worshiping a myriad of gods--Zeus, Odin, Osiris, et al. But when it comes to the Abrahamic religions who are all talking about the God who revealed Himself to Abraham, to Moses, etc there seems to often be a more subjective criteria involved: How do Jews worship the same God as Christians, but Muslims don't?

It's pretty obvious that Islam isn't Christianity, there isn't even a need to point that out. Judaism isn't Christianity either. But to claim that Jews and Christians worship different Gods sounds dangerously close to Marcion's old heresy. Maybe you agree with that statement, maybe you don't. But if you do agree that Jews and Christians worship the same God; then what is the clear and objective criteria that you would use to claim Muslims don't? That according to Islam God has no Son? Well, neither does Judaism. That Muslims don't believe in the Trinity? Neither do Jews. That in Islam Abraham's chosen son was Ishmael not Isaac? Well in Judaism the "prophet like Moses" was Joshua ben Nun; in Christianity it's Jesus. That Muslims have the Qu'ran and Christians have the Bible? Well Jews have the Tanakh, which certainly is (basically) the Christian Old Testament (more-or-less anyway), but the New Testament seems pretty important to me as a Christian. Is it just vibes? Subjective feelings?

In the context of modern American political discourse (and, this extends beyond American politics to Western politics in general), I can't help but think that the point really isn't serious comparative religious study and a concern for religious and theological nuances--the point isn't religion at all, or theology, or doctrine. The point is culture, and specifically cultural inclusion or exclusion. What sorts of people are we willing to accept as our co-nationals? And the goal is to place Muslims in the exclusion camp: Muslims don't belong, they are "other", and we don't want to include them in our circle of who is truly American, British, French, etc. And we're just using religion as a tribalistic cultural marker. This is Christianity as "civilization", not as the committed following of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who suffered and died for us, and whose teachings and commandments are to dictate our way of being. This is being "Christian" for the sake of cultural inclusion. And this is our deciding, based on our whims, to sometimes include Jews and sometimes exclude Jews--which is part of the long history of western antisemitism. Jews being accepted as "honorary Christians" based on the mere whims and winds of the political and cultural climate; rather than true inclusion and acceptance as neighbors.

And that's not being Christian. That's faking it for culture points.