Trump sued by preservationists seeking reviews and congressional approval for ballroom project

[Aryeh Jay]

More fake liberal outrage. The Democrats had years to demolish parts of the White House but sat on their hands doing nothing. But as soon as President Trump paved over an abandoned empty lot or removed an old unused derelict structure, oh! It's the end of the world!

 

[durangodawood]

....."Ladies, Gentlemen, Heads of State, Ambassadors, we'd like to welcome you all to this gala affair, there's some bug spray by the salad bar if the mosquitos get too bad"

The US is something of an outlier in this regard.

Do most countries have their ballroom or similar at the capitol building or executive residence/office?

 

[Stopped_lurking]

If we are going to be hosting state events and receptions, apart from the superficial aspect of "it looks low class to have dignitaries sitting in tents when they come in for an event, and could influence perceptions...which can have other effects"

No one dealing with the US president is going to be influenced by the venue, I hope at least.

There is some practical use for having an event space that's within the property of the official state residence.

A big one is security logistics for those events.

In the winter months where outside dining in tents isn't an option, they've rented out event spaces at hotels.

Obviously that's tougher to secure than something that's on white house property.

What events are we talking about here, what events of political importance have had more guests than could be accommodated in a room for lets say 20 people? The president goes around the country doing rallies, obviously there are many venues that can be used around the country since they are safe enough for public events.

Why use such a tacky decor? It is a perfectly valid objection if one thinks the decor is tacky, and if one doesn't want it to represent ones country.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

More fake liberal outrage. The Democrats had years to demolish parts of the White House but sat on their hands doing nothing. But as soon as President Trump paved over an abandoned empty lot or removed an old unused derelict structure, oh! It's the end of the world!

Thank you for sharing your strong views on the White House renovations. However, your descriptions of those areas as an 'abandoned empty lot' or a 'derelict structure' are highly political opinions—not factual or historical descriptions. While I see you're using that strong language to defend the President's actions, those terms actively dismiss the historic significance of the spaces and the preservation concerns that led to the legal challenges mentioned in the OP.

 

[durangodawood]

A

Thank you for sharing your strong views on the White House renovations. However, your descriptions of those areas as an 'abandoned empty lot' or a 'derelict structure' are highly political opinions—not factual or historical descriptions. While I see you're using that strong language to defend the President's actions, those terms actively dismiss the historic significance of the spaces and the preservation concerns that led to the legal challenges mentioned in the OP.

Aryeh doenst always believe exactly what he says. At least I hope not.

 

[eleos1954]

Trump sued by preservationists seeking reviews and congressional approval for ballroom project

President Donald Trump has been sued by preservationists seeking an architecture review and congressional approval over his White House ballroom project.

apnews.com

President Donald Trump was sued on Friday by preservationists asking a federal court to halt his White House ballroom project until it goes through multiple independent reviews and wins approval from Congress.​

​

The National Trust for Historic Preservation, a privately funded group, is asking the U.S. District Court to block Trump’s White House ballroom project, which already has involved razing the East Wing, until it goes through comprehensive design reviews, environmental assessments, public comments and congressional debate and ratification.​

​

Trump’s project has prompted criticism in the historic preservation and architectural communities, and among his political adversaries, but the lawsuit is the most tangible effort thus far to alter or stop the president’s plans for an addition that itself would be nearly twice the size of the White House before the East Wing’s demolition.​

​

He's really going about this all wrong. Like I said elsewhere I'm not even opposed to the ballroom on principle. He's just doing it all wrong. In just about every way.

I think this is ridiculous .... a good place to hold meetings/functions by the white house is needed .... it also provides for a more secure place. It's not just going to be a "dance hall".

 

[durangodawood]

I think this is ridiculous .... a good place to hold meetings/functions by the white house is needed .... it also provides for a more secure place. It's not just going to be a "dance hall".

Is that what the lawsuit is about? No ballroom no matter what?

 

[Hans Blaster]

How is it ham-fisted?

Are the construction steps being done out of order? Anything concerning with the blueprints or the floor plan?


From what I'm reading, this is the construction company slated to handle the project

Our Projects | Clark Construction

www.clarkconstruction.com

They seem to know what they're doing. (they've done everything from Amazon buildings, to professional stadiums, to office HQs)

The did widen I-64 in Virginia, so clearly qualified...

 

[durangodawood]

Every ballroom is by most conventional definitions are "over the top"

The public vs. private funding conversation is just another "no-win trap".

If it was publicly funded, people would gripe about "look at what Trump is wasting your tax money on"...privately funded is "oh, it's rich people buying influence"

Keeping in mind that the head of state ballroom in Britain looks like this:
View attachment 374403

In France:
View attachment 374404

In Germany:
View attachment 374405

Japan:
View attachment 374406

To pretend that the "Trump-proposed" design is somehow uniquely tacky or a waste of money is silly.

Like I said, I'm by no means a "ballroom event" type of guy. Give me a steakhouse or craft brewery any night of the week.

But we can't pretend that this whole ballroom thing is "shocking and appalling".

The only people still doing that^ are kleptocratic African tyrants, jumped up KGB agents, and so on.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Do most countries have their ballroom or similar at the capitol building or executive residence/office?

The examples I provided earlier were from Britain, Germany, France, and Japan.

But I'm pretty sure they are others.

Edit
In looking a little more it looks like a lot of South American countries have head of state residences that not only have formal event spaces & ballrooms, but have overall building's that are much more ornate in general.

Peru

Government Palace, Peru - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ecuador
Palacio de Carondelet - Wikipedia

Back to Europe, there's Portugal

Belém Palace - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Belgium

The Royal Palace of Brussels | Unofficial Royalty

The Norwegian Royal Palace in Norway (as multiple from the looks of it)

The reception rooms at the Royal Palace

The reception rooms at the Royal Palace in Oslo reflect the various interior styles that were fashionable during the 25 years it took to build the Palace.

www.royalcourt.no

Austria has quite the "fancy digs"

Hofburg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As does Denmark:

Christiansborg Palace - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The only people still doing that^ are kleptocratic African tyrants, jumped up KGB agents, and so on.

And Canada evidently

Adam: A new home for the prime minister is closer than ever — or so the NCC says

That a replacement for 24 Sussex Drive has become so controversial is, regrettably, a testament to our small-mindedness.

ottawacitizen.com

...the article says that not having some fancy digs for a Prime Minister is a "National Embarrassment"

 

[durangodawood]

M

The examples I provided earlier were from Britain, Germany, France, and Japan.

But I'm pretty sure they are others.

Edit
In looking a little more it looks like a lot of South American countries have head of state residences that not only have formal event spaces & ballrooms, but have overall building's that are much more ornate in general.

Peru

Government Palace, Peru - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ecuador
Palacio de Carondelet - Wikipedia

Back to Europe, there's Portugal

Belém Palace - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Belgium

The Royal Palace of Brussels | Unofficial Royalty

The Norwegian Royal Palace in Norway (as multiple from the looks of it)

The reception rooms at the Royal Palace

The reception rooms at the Royal Palace in Oslo reflect the various interior styles that were fashionable during the 25 years it took to build the Palace.

www.royalcourt.no

Austria has quite the "fancy digs"

Hofburg - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As does Denmark:

Christiansborg Palace - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Most of those and similar from the other posts were erected by monarchs or governments still swayed by the trappings of monarchy.

By contrast, America was conceived in explicit opposition to monarchic ideology, and I think the original design of the White House reflects that. Its not a log cabin. But it really is quite modest compared to all these other palaces - for important symbolic reasons.

So, I think its a big mistake to overshadow the White House with some huge gaudy hastily designed pile that hearkens back to ideology we (used to) reject.

That said, I do appreciate the need for a proper event space rather than these absurd tents. Just do it right as part of "the peoples house". Dont let it be a monument to one man's inflated ego.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The did widen I-64 in Virginia, so clearly qualified...

They also did
Bank of America stadium
The New HQ for San Fran's public utility commission
Walter Reed National Medical Center expansion
Capital One Arena in DC
USC's baseball stadium in LA
Century City Center in LA
The National Air & Space Museum expansion and remodel in DC


...did you just pick the first project of theirs that you saw that would make them sound like he hired some fly-by-night underqualified construction outfit?

They're a perfectly respectable company that has several impressive projects (both in the public & private sectors) in their portfolio.

 

[durangodawood]

And Canada evidently

Adam: A new home for the prime minister is closer than ever — or so the NCC says

That a replacement for 24 Sussex Drive has become so controversial is, regrettably, a testament to our small-mindedness.

ottawacitizen.com

...the article says that not having some fancy digs for a Prime Minister is a "National Embarrassment"

Not seeing any proposal there I could make a judgement about.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Most of those and similar from the other posts were erected by monarchs or governments still swayed by the trappings of monarchy.

By contrast, America was conceived in explicit opposition to monarchic ideology, and I think the original design of the White House reflects that. Its not a log cabin. But it really is quite modest compared to all these others - for important symbolic reasons.

So, I think its a big mistake to overshadow the White House with some huge gaudy hastily designed pile that hearkens back to ideology we (used to) reject.

...part of me feels like that's sort of a "having it both ways" thing for those countries. Where they can claim "oh, we'd never build something like this today, we're far more egalitarian now", but then still get to use it and enjoy it (not to mention, the upkeep costs on those palaces can't be cheap)

...while also leveraging their ornateness as evidence for how they're "more refined and cultured than you Americans"


I thought this write-up by a European was interesting (showing how there's a slightly more nuanced perspective about this "across the pond")

For the moment, it is true that the U.S. president’s residence is poorly equipped. When large crowds are expected, tents, which are by their very nature temporary structures, are erected on the south lawn: “When it rains or snows, it’s a disaster,” says the president, and not without reason. Building a permanent structure is also a matter of consistency: if guests are dressed in their Sunday best, wearing elegant suits, sophisticated hairstyles, long dresses and high heels, it’s not to wade through mud or take shelter under polyethylene.

Behind this seemingly crazy architectural project, there is therefore a certain amount of common sense.

But on this side of the Atlantic, the announcement was met with smirks. For a French or Austrian person, hearing that the White House is one of the most beautiful and historic monuments in the world is laughable. What nerve, on the part of this rough-and-ready businessman, to dare to imagine that he could rival the Hall of Mirrors at Versailles, the Redoutensäle at the Hofburg or the ballroom at the Catherine Palace in Tsarskoye Selo?

But that’s not the point. Rather than triggering smug sarcasm, Trump’s approach should be of great interest to us. With his ballroom and gilding, the American president is reviving a centuries-old conception of power: building to last. “We’ll be leaving it and it’ll be a great legacy project,” Donald Trump rejoices. Polyethylene has no future and will not attract crowds in two hundred years’ time, that’s a fact.

It is fortunate that our kings had the same reflex as Trump today, or we would still be living in Frankish or Visigothic tents, having destroyed the splendour of the Roman Empire.

 

[Stopped_lurking]

The examples I provided earlier were from Britain, Germany, France, and Japan.

Have you checked your info on the German one? Your picture seems to come from the Zofin palace in Prag. If Germany can do without a fancy ballroom surely the US can too?

 

[Hans Blaster]

They also did
Bank of America stadium
The New HQ for San Fran's public utility commission
Walter Reed National Medical Center expansion
Capital One Arena in DC
USC's baseball stadium in LA
Century City Center in LA
The National Air & Space Museum expansion and remodel in DC


...did you just pick the first project of theirs that you saw that would make them sound like he hired some fly-by-night underqualified construction outfit?

They're a perfectly respectable company that has several impressive projects (both in the public & private sectors) in their portfolio.

No, I picked the one that made the biggest mockery of your list. I said nothing of them being "fly-by-night". (Why is reading so hard.) I'm sure they'd be fine for a new WH ExOffPres office building on site built to architects standards. Nothing on your list demonstrates that they are appropriate for a free floating building of the planned type with high-quality craftsmanship involved (OK, who am I kidding, trump doesn't know craftsmanship). Even more so integration with historic buildings with 200+ year old *renovations*. If you'd told me they'd done sensitive historical renovations or additions like the Capitol Vistors Center, that would be a different story.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Have you checked your info on the German one? Your picture seems to come from the Zofin palace in Prag. If Germany can do without a fancy ballroom surely the US can too?

Bellevue Palace, Germany - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Bellevue Palace (German: Schloss Bellevue, pronounced [ʃlɔs bɛlˈvyː] ⓘ), located in Berlin's Tiergarten district, has been the official residence of the president of Germany since 1994.

Visiting the Schloss Bellevue with Wilkommen in Berlin - Almost Diplomatic

I recently wrote about the first event I attended organised by Wilkommen in Berlin (WIB). After that, I was able to attend a couple more before the diplomatic spouse club went on a break for the summer. The break is over and...

almostdiplomatic.com

Looks like they have the Oval Ballroom and the Great Hall

The previous examples aside, I posted wiki links for the one from
Peru, Ecuador, Portugal, Austria, Denmark, Norway, and Belgium

 

[Stopped_lurking]

Bellevue Palace, Germany - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Bellevue Palace (German: Schloss Bellevue, pronounced [ʃlɔs bɛlˈvyː] ⓘ), located in Berlin's Tiergarten district, has been the official residence of the president of Germany since 1994.

Visiting the Schloss Bellevue with Wilkommen in Berlin - Almost Diplomatic

I recently wrote about the first event I attended organised by Wilkommen in Berlin (WIB). After that, I was able to attend a couple more before the diplomatic spouse club went on a break for the summer. The break is over and...

almostdiplomatic.com

Looks like they have the Oval Ballroom and the Great Hall

The previous examples aside, I posted wiki links for the one from
Peru, Ecuador, Portugal, Austria, Denmark, Norway, and Belgium

Yes, I know but neither of them are your picture.

This is the Oval ballroom (Langhans hall)

And this is the Great hall

Neither of which is pictured in your post.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

No, I picked the one that made the biggest mockery of your list. I said nothing of them being "fly-by-night". (Why is reading so hard.) I'm sure they'd be fine for a new WH ExOffPres office building on site built to architects standards. Nothing on your list demonstrates that they are appropriate for a free floating building of the planned type with high-quality craftsmanship involved (OK, who am I kidding, trump doesn't know craftsmanship). Even more so integration with historic buildings with 200+ year old *renovations*. If you'd told me they'd done sensitive historical renovations or additions like the Capitol Vistors Center, that would be a different story.

Being that they were able to handle the renovation and expansions to the Smithsonian National Air & Space museum project (that building wasn't exactly a "spring chicken" either), I think they'll be fine.

They also did the Cannon House (which is home to several congressional offices), that was a building that was almost 120 years old.

This one would also demonstrate that they have some "chops" with regards to working with historical structures.

UW Seismic Improvements | Clark Construction

University of Washington (UW) Seismic Improvements is a multi-phased project to renovate 25 unreinforced masonry (URM) buildings on campus. Seattle’s many URM buildings are vulnerable to earthquake damage, and in a proactive effort to protect occupants and get ahead of local seismic regulations

www.clarkconstruction.com