Can a young child become a Christian?

[timothyu]

John was the cleansing. Jesus was the fresh being.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Of course they don't mention baptism. Baptists always love to go to all passages of Scripture that don't teach anything about baptism and children whatsoever and try to prove who should or should not be baptized.

I'm not a Baptist -

Strange way of doing exegesis.

No - it is proper exegesis. Speaking of a specific topic bring exegetical evidence of that specific topic.

Sorry you do not like the answer

Kinda like going to passages of Scripture that only teach end time theology and say....we should not pray because all these passages of Scripture don't mention prayer. Strange.

Yes, that comment is very strange because I did nothing of the sort -

Our main rule for interpreting Scripture is: CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT. We only use passages of Scripture that teach something about baptism and children mentioned contextually together. Are there passages of Scripture in the NT that mention children and baptism contextually together? Of course there are.

Where?

Baptists use strange hermenuetics in order to explain away baptism including infants altogether.

Again - I am not a Baptist -

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

Where?

• Paedobaptist interpretative rule: study baptismal texts that mention children to see if children should be baptized.
• Credobaptist interpretative rule: go to all the texts that DO NOT TEACH BAPTISM NOR REFER TO CHILDREN to determine who should be baptized.

This is stacking the hermenuetical deck in the credo's favor. This is why it is so difficult if impossible to converse with the credos. Different standards.

As for where in Scripture baptism and children are spoken of contextually together....one of texts was mentioned by Chapter and verse in this thread. Sometimes bias doesn't allow us to see things that are there.

 

[Always in His Presence]

• Paedobaptist interpretative rule: study baptismal texts that mention children to see if children should be baptized.

I am not a Paedobaptist

• Credobaptist interpretative rule: go to all the texts that DO NOT TEACH BAPTISM NOR REFER TO CHILDREN to determine who should be baptized.

I am not a Credobaptist

This is stacking the hermenuetical deck in the credo's favor. This is why it is so difficult if impossible to converse with the credos. Different standards.

I wouldn't know - since once again - I am not any of those

As for where in Scripture baptism and children are spoken of contextually together....one of texts was mentioned by Chapter and verse in this thread.

Please cite it - I can not seem to find it.

Sometimes bias doesn't allow us to see things that are there.

You are eloquently proving that with every accusation of who you think I am - when I am not.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

I am not a Paedobaptist

I am not a Credobaptist

I wouldn't know - since once again - I am not any of those

Please cite it - I can not seem to find it.

You are eloquently proving that with every accusation of who you think I am - when I am not.

Neither a credo nor paedo? I am wasting my time here. Sorry for wasting your time also. I aplogize.

 

[johansen]

I’m one of many who would disagree.

at some point, replies like this become a waste of forum bandwidth and only decrease the ability of anyone else reading the thread to understand what anyone is talking about.

for what its worth, i agree with everything ain't zwingling in post #78.

Neither a credo nor paedo? I am wasting my time here. Sorry for wasting your time also. I aplogize.

whats left if you aren't either of those?

 

[narnia59]

The Bible indeed has many verses relating faith to salvation. But what is Biblical faith? Is it a mere intellectual assent that Jesus died for our sins? Or is something more? I would contend the latter. Biblical faith includes repentance, a surrender of ourselves to God’s will, trust in His goodness, obedience to Christ, and working in charity.

All Scripture is inspired by God, not just the verses about faith. This is why it's problematic to focus only on verses about faith in relation to salvation and ignore the rest.

Such as the necessity of faith working in love. James tells us clearly that "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.” and "So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead" (James 2:24,26) Jesus tells us that those who feed, clothe and perform other works of mercy are those who will receive eternal life (Matthew 25:31-46) and that it is necessary to do the will of his Father to enter heaven (Matthew 7:21-27) and to keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17-19). He tells us that those who have "done good" will participate in the resurrection of life (John 5:28-29)

St. Paul tells us in the book of Romans that "he will render to every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life" (Romans 2:6-8) and he writes to the Galatians that "The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. (Galatians 5:5-6).

The book of Hebrews tells us that Jesus became the source of eternal salvation to "all who obey him" (Hebrews 5:8-9). The book of Acts tells us that God gives the Holy Spirit "to those who obey Him" (Acts 5:32)

Yes, it is indeed important to look at all of Scripture to understand what Biblical faith is.

Likewise, there are numerous Scriptures that correlate Baptism to salvation:

“Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, ‘Brethren, what shall we do?’ And Peter said to them, ‘Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit’…. So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.” (Acts 2:37-38,41).

Acts 22:14-16 – “And he said, ‘The God of our fathers appointed you to know his will, to see the Just One and to hear a voice from his mouth; for you will be a witness for him to all men of what you have seen and heard. And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’”

1 Peter 3:19-21 “in which he went and preached to the spirits in prison, who formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

“He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.” (Mark 16:16).

And St. Paul in his writings is quite clear that it is through Baptism that we come to be “in Christ.” (1 Corinthians 12:13, Romans 6:3-4, Galatians 3:27, Colossians 2:11-12).

St. Paul is also quite clear that there is only ONE Baptism -- Ephesians 4:5

 

[Always in His Presence]

There are a number of references I'd like you to look at:​

​

first reference​

​

Acts 19:1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”​

​

So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”​

​

3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”​

​

So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”​

​

4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”​

​

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.​

​

Notice - Paul is speaking with disciples - (saved) -

1. They are already had experienced the baptism into repentance -

2. Then Paul Baptized them a second time in the Name of the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit came upon them.

Second reference -​

Heb 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.​

​

Baptisms - plural.

Third reference:​

John 20:21 21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.​

​

They received the Holy Spirit - then later -

Acts 1: 4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”​

​

Three distinct and very plainly written Scriptures - each demonstrating more than one Baptism.

look again at

Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.​

​

Is it possible that the subject of the sentence is our entrance into the Body of Christ and yes, there is one Baptism into Christ - but as evidenced by Paul's own writings and actions - there was another where the Holy Spirit was involved.

If your answer is no - them please explain the above notated Scriptures.

​

​

​

 

[Always in His Presence]

at some point, replies like this become a waste of forum bandwidth and only decrease the ability of anyone else reading the thread to understand what anyone is talking about.

As is replying to and complaining about a posters comments a similar waste of bad width

for what its worth, i agree with everything ain't zwingling in post #78.

Do you believe your comment is a better use of bandwidth?

whats left if you aren't either of those?

Terminology is the issue here - a Baptist is most commonly the title of a Protestant denomination. Of which I am not a member. I do not have a clue what the other types of baptist the poster mentioned are and the poster offered no clarity nor explanation.

 

[narnia59]

There are a number of references I'd like you to look at:​

​

​

first reference​

​

Acts 19:1 And it happened, while Apollos was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper regions, came to Ephesus. And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”​

​

So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”​

​

3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?”​

​

So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”​

​

4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”​

​

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.​

​

Notice - Paul is speaking with disciples - (saved) -

1. They are already had experienced the baptism into repentance -

2. Then Paul Baptized them a second time in the Name of the Lord Jesus and the Holy Spirit came upon them.

Second reference -​

Heb 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.​

​

Baptisms - plural.

Third reference:​

John 20:21 21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.​

​

They received the Holy Spirit - then later -

Acts 1: 4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”​

​

Three distinct and very plainly written Scriptures - each demonstrating more than one Baptism.

look again at

Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.​

​

Is it possible that the subject of the sentence is our entrance into the Body of Christ and yes, there is one Baptism into Christ - but as evidenced by Paul's own writings and actions - there was another where the Holy Spirit was involved.

If your answer is no - them please explain the above notated Scriptures.

​

​

​

I will no longer engage in discussion with you. You refuse to answer basic questions and deflect.

If you want to go back and answer the question I asked in post #7 and at least 3 other subsequent times, then we can talk. As long as you continue to ignore my questions, I have no interest in any further discussion. So, totally up to you.

 

[johansen]

I do not have a clue what the other types of baptist the poster mentioned are and the poster offered no clarity nor explanation

What hinders you from providing your own clarity?

 

[Always in His Presence]

What hinders you from providing your own clarity?

Ok. As clear as I can make it.

The most widely recognized Baptist:

About the SBC - SBC.net

SBC Governing Documents Charter Constitution Bylaws Business and Financial Plan Ministry Assignments Legal Names and Addresses Trustee Directories Fast Facts SBC Structure Explained Southern Baptist Entities & Seminaries SBC Executive Committee International Mission Board North American Mission...

www.sbc.net

Thanks

 

[Always in His Presence]

I will no longer engage in discussion with you. You refuse to answer basic questions and deflect.

If you want to go back and answer the question I asked in post #7 and at least 3 other subsequent times, then we can talk. As long as you continue to ignore my questions, I have no interest in any further discussion. So, totally up to you.

I wasn’t addressing you personally. That is why I didn’t quote you.

You = the readers

I feel the same way you do. A shame really.

 

[Ain't Zwinglian]

if we do not come into this world with a fallen human nature, then why do we need to be saved at all?

A great diagnostic question.

 

[timothyu]

A great diagnostic question

Amalgam. We were built hybrids, flesh and spirit.. The choice of which nature to follow was also built in. A&E took the lead in making that choice when they followed their fleshy instinct to serve self instead of the spirit of God. Self became their god. I doubt God expected any different, combining two opposing wills. Is not understanding the result of learning rather than following and memorizing/mimicking? It's not like other creatures who follow self with no other option, being flesh. We need to learn how best to use this new concept. Its not like God hasn't continually told us how, but of course being focused on self, we'd rather find our own way. Good luck with that.