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Trump dispenses with trials, orders military strike on alleged Venezuelan drug-trafficking boat (Now up to 2, 3, 4...)

Stopped_lurking

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No that is not your assumption.
That is my assumption.
If it was just that the boat was put out of play then we could not make any other assumptions as to what was happening. But you interjected they were out of play in a particular was as innocents stranded. When we don't know. They could have been salvaging all the drugs and then eventually get help to continue the mission.

Because it means they intend to gather them and continue the mission. Those very drugs that are gathered could end up on the streets in the US.
Their boat was capsized after their first strike, and it was still capsized at the second strike (all according to both Adam Smith and Tom Cotton in the video). No drugs were salvaged according to any reports, or do you have any other info?
Thats what happens when your trying to stop terrorist. Were the terrorist who were bombed in other hits in other situations in peril if they survived. Of course. Thats what happens when you commit terror. Expect to be put in peril. Because you commiting peril on others.

Thats the difference between being in peril out on a days fishing and engaging in terror activities. From what I read they were actually standing on the boat and taking their shirts off and gathering the parcels. So they were not exactly drowning. This happened some time back and the report says there were a number of JAGs there when it happened live and none said it was illegal.
I don't know. Your asking questions that have not come out yet. I am sure they would have all sorts of communication including phones on a boat worth 1/4 of a million dollars.
No radio communication was intercepted, see the video I linked.
The problem is what is morally right is a matter of opinion according to secular thinking. So theres no way to determine what is right. Whoever is in power gets to decide.
I think it is wrong to fire on capsized boat, do you think it is right?
Bidens government may have been softe on crime and drugs and this was morally wrong and caused harm to many. Trump may be tougher and it seems unfair but saves 10 times as many lives.

Its the good old Trolly ethical dilemma. Either way some die and some live. The more you save is deemed more moral. This is the problem with relative morality.
Not true, interdiction is the alternative. Then the same people on the streets of the US is still alive and the smugglers would not have died.
I just gave one above. If say 100 die oin drug boats but it stops 80% of the trade and saves say 10,000 people. Or we continue the same policy that has allowed it to get out of hand and we lose those 10,000 and maybe it increases to an additional 10,000 as it gets worse.
Why, interdiction is still on the table.
Which is more moral.
Interdiction. Saves the same number of people in the US with out killing the smugglers.
So if they have a right to radio for help how do you know it was not to get another boat to collect all the drugs and then continue the mission.
Then, the second strike should have been against boat number two.
You could start with the lack of action in stopping the drug trade. It has increased under Biden. You could also condemn the Dems soft policies that have allowed crime and rugs to flourish thus allowing both sides of the problem to grow and kill many people and destroy families and communities.
Did it 2024 vs 2023? The numbers of drug deaths was reduced in 2024 vs 2023, if I remember correctly.
This not onlt has to be doine but done with the same level of passion and vitriole as made against Trump and his administration. That is attack them, misrepresent the Dems and call them out at the same level with headlines and all to be consistent. No excuse making like they have for other stuff like fraud. Just call out their own for all the immoral stuff done re the drug problem and crimne associted.,
Booh for the Democrats! Ok?
Just pretend that it was the dems who helped cultivate both the drug smuggling and active use on the streets which is responsible for killing 1,000s. Because this is what the Rep will be accusing the Dems of doing.

Actually no in combating terrorism. Biden and Obama participated and gave go aheads for attacks on terrorist that involved 2nd hits at finishing the job. Heck Obama gave the ok to go into Bin Ladens compound and kill every single person in the house. Including women and children.
Booh for Obama! Ok?
Vehicles hit in terror coveys have been hit multiple times while terrorists are still running around. This is how combating in a war like situation happens with terrorist. Its easy to play moralist from the sidelines and an armchair.

It does not matter if they don't right the boat. Just trying to right the boat and getting the cargo is still actively engaged in trying to continue.
No, that in itself doesn't make it right to kill them, IMO. If they were still speeding towards their destination, ok.
I hate all this. It sounds like all the other conspiracies and claims and counter claims. People come up with all these spectualtions up until the actual facts are released.
Did you watch the video I linked? They were never in a position to carry on.
They were calling Trumps assassin a radical Right supporter or that Trump did not get hit with a bullet. All sorts of silly claims. Just let the facts come out.

I also noticed they have made another hit on another drug boat. So this is not stopping them from stopping these drug boats. They seem to believe they have a legal right and no one has challenged this yet. So they must have some pretty good intel and legal advice.
Were they hitting an already stricken boat again? Why is this an equivalent situation?
 
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essentialsaltes

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I think the thread amply demonstrates why we shouldn't want the military being the nation's primary response to crime. The military already has a purpose for which it is well-suited. And so does law enforcement and the courts.
 
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Hans Blaster

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To a degree its part of politics. But in recent times with all the fake news and culture war where sides are polarised. Its made the politics polarised and partisan to the point where politicians and the legacy media are willing to lie. Thats not good for anything and a symptom of a very troubled system that is not working and actually covering up stuff and causing harm.

We only have to look at this recent period with the rise of political assassinations and violence. These are the symptoms of those lies and rhetoric that cultivates hate and division.

The Lefts relentless almost deranged fixation on Trump is glaring. The truth is coming out to what extent they went to twist the truth to get him. But also other Conservatives and also even Christians.

I don't trust one word they say and I don't care what they say. They have disqualified themselves and have no moral ground to stand on.

Its not about not liking Trump or a politician on the opposite side. Its the level of hate that causes people to actually twist the truth and reality that is the problem. Not liking and deranged hatred are two different things.

All this what about in defense of Trump (which is not the topic). Did you even bother to vote for him?
 
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Perpetual Student

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Loaded questions also carry a premise. Yours was obvious. It was basically an accusation in the form of a question that was asked in bad faith.
Then here come two non-loaded questions, that I have asked multiple times in this thread but nobody did answer yet. So let me repeat:
1) are you in favour of applying and protecting the rule of law, without ifs or buts and without exceptions?
2) Do you adhere to the principe that anybody is innocent until proven guilty?
 
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Servus

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Then here come two non-loaded questions, that I have asked multiple times in this thread but nobody did answer yet. So let me repeat:
1) are you in favour of applying and protecting the rule of law, without ifs or buts and without exceptions?
2) Do you adhere to the principe that anybody is innocent until proven guilty?
Sure.

I'm guessing this will lead to "then why do you..."
 
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rjs330

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dreamed up by morally bankrupt Christian nationalists to justify to themselves why it's OK to exterminate the men in the boats instead of arresting them
What Christian Nationalists are you talking about? These decisions were made by the government through military and legal channels within the governement. They weren't made by some boogie man Christian Nationalists.
 
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rjs330

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You are full of hate and division. You write people off only because they’re opposed to Trump. That’s divisive. You don’t even live here and you are pushing division between Americans who are debating and discussing matters about their own government’s actions. That’s what we do. That’s what we’ve always done. Our government answers to us, or they’re supposed to, at least. I’m sorry the politics in your country are just so boring that you have to talk about ours but you clearly have a very heavy bias showing when you say no one can criticize the current administration because they haven’t been equally critical of past administrations. Following your lead, we can just write you off as an illogical Trump loyalist. Defending this criminal administration means you also have no moral high ground to talk down to us from.
I find it difficult to take you seriously. You sure haven't said that to Rambot or Bradskil or any other number of foreign posters on rhe left. Yet you freely say it to someone disagrees with you. Its rather hypocritical and therefore can be completely dismissed.
 
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Servus

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I think the thread amply demonstrates why we shouldn't want the military being the nation's primary response to crime. The military already has a purpose for which it is well-suited. And so does law enforcement and the courts.
Who else has jurisdiction in international waters? There's the Coast Guard but they have arms too and they call in the Navy at times.
 
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Servus

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No, we assume that they are noncombatant civilian criminal gangsters smuggling cocaine. That terrorist business is just a fairy story dreamed up by morally bankrupt Christian nationalists to justify to themselves why it's OK to exterminate the men in the boats instead of arresting them
I see your warpath against Christians continues.
 
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BCP1928

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What Christian Nationalists are you talking about? These decisions were made by the government through military and legal channels within the governement. They weren't made by some boogie man Christian Nationalists.
Pete Hegseth is a self-avowed Christian Nationalist linked to the Seven Mountain Mandate. But the important question to me at this point is not whether killing those two men in the wreckage was legal, but whether it was moral by Christian standards. I put it to you that it was not.
 
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BCP1928

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Who else has jurisdiction in international waters? There's the Coast Guard but they have arms too and they call in the Navy at times.
They generally arrest the crews before blowing up the boats and I don't remember any incident in which they killed survivors in the water. But then, all they are interested in is stopping the the boats and arresting criminal gangsters. But supporters of that approach are now being condemned for sympathizing with terrorists, so I guess it depends on what your agenda is.
 
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Servus

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Blowing things up is not jurisdiction. Jurisdiction requires jurists.
well you said response to crime other than military which would be a police department. But what police department would operate in international waters? Or did you have some other entity in mind? Also cops shoot people dead without a trial all the time. And I mean shootings that are ruled as justified. Some even get justifiably shot while fleeing.
 
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Arcangl86

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Who else has jurisdiction in international waters? There's the Coast Guard but they have arms too and they call in the Navy at times.
Yes, but the Coast Guard doesn't open fire unless needed. They always start with an arrest attempt. There has also been instances where Navy vessels have included Coast Guard personnel on board specifically for counter drug work, though I will admit to not knowing how common that is. @Aryeh Jay might know more/
 
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Arcangl86

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well you said response to crime other than military which would be a police department. But what police department would operate in international waters?
The Coast Guard and FBI both authority over the high seas when it comes to enforcement of US law. The Coast Guard is also a military force, which while unique in the US actually isn't that uncommon in other countries.
Or did you have some other entity in mind? Also cops shoot people dead without a trial all the time. And I mean shootings that are ruled as justified.
Those shootings are usually in self defense. The cops don't just shoot people because they think they are committing a crime.
 
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Aryeh Jay

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Yes, but the Coast Guard doesn't open fire unless needed. They always start with an arrest attempt. There has also been instances where Navy vessels have included Coast Guard personnel on board specifically for counter drug work, though I will admit to not knowing how common that is. @Aryeh Jay might know more/

Yes, there are Coast Guard law enforcement detachments on several of the ships down here.
 
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Servus

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The Coast Guard and FBI both authority over the high seas when it comes to enforcement of US law. The Coast Guard is also a military force, which while unique in the US actually isn't that uncommon in other countries.

Those shootings are usually in self defense. The cops don't just shoot people because they think they are committing a crime.
what about the fleeing suspects that get shot?
 
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