Is Santa Mythology based on Odin?

[lismore]

Interesting article:

Odin to Santa Claus: Is Santa Inspired by Odin’s Yule Rides? - The Wicked Griffin

Could Santa Claus really be inspired by Odin? This article explores the fascinating and complex historical, mythological, and folkloric evidence connecting the Norse god Odin with the jolly old man we associate with the winter holidays. Drawing entirely from peer-reviewed books and scholarly...

thewickedgriffin.com

One of the more compelling threads in Viking history and Norse mythology is the winter role played by Odin, the Norse god known for his wisdom, magic, and sky-riding abilities.

Scholars like Margaret Baker have noted that the long-bearded, cloaked, and sky-faring Santa Claus shares striking similarities with Odin, particularly in his Yule manifestations.

In her work, Baker describes Santa Claus as a “blue-hooded, cloaked, white-bearded Giftbringer of the north,” which she links to Odin’s own depiction as a gift-bearing rider in the midwinter sky (Baker, 2007, p. 62).

This resemblance is not just cosmetic. Odin, known to lead the Wild Hunt during the Twelve Nights of Yule, often rode his magical eight-legged horse Sleipnir through the night sky, a detail echoed in Santa’s reindeer-pulled sleigh.

Such traditions reveal the persistence of pre-Christian beliefs within Christmas customs and may explain how Santa is Odin, at least in part, in European folk memory.

The Wild Hunt is a spectral, airborne procession led by Odin who was central to Germanic and Norse Yule traditions.

This myth was not only widely feared but also deeply ingrained in old Norse winter rites.

George H. McKnight identifies this imagery as formative in the evolution of the Christmas tradition, with Saint Nicholas eventually assuming traits of Odin such as gift-giving, nocturnal rides, and of course with a long beard (McKnight, 1917, pp. 138–139).

Children once left hay or oats for Odin’s steed, much like the later custom of placing out stockings or shoes, ultimately evolving into a hallmark of modern gift-giving.

This is a powerful demonstration of how ancient Yule traditions stuck around, reemerging in forms like Father Christmas and Santa Claus.

In Christmas in Ritual and Tradition, Clement A. Miles explores how pagan and Norse customs informed Christian celebrations.

He notes that Saints Martin and Nicholas may have served as Christianized stand-ins for Woden (Miles, 1912, p. 219).

The timing of Yule, falling close to December 6, the feast of St. Nicholas, plays a crucial role. During the Yule festival, figures like Odin were believed to ride the skies, rewarding the good and punishing the bad, basically echoing the now familiar “naughty or nice” list.

Though Miles presents other interpretations (including Roman influences and seasonal personifications), he acknowledges that the connection between Odin and Santa Claus cannot be dismissed outright.
Even Santa’s occasional mischief, generosity, and supernatural qualities align with Odin’s character in Norse mythology..............

 

[Larniavc]

It’s mostly down to Coke wanting to sell non-cocaine containing Coke when it’s cold.

 

[Lily76_]

i think they use the Norse mythology to sell and make big money for companies that are failing until Christmastime so they use Odin as Santa to take money off people even the Christmas tree comes from Norse Mythology too

 

[ViaCrucis]

i think they use the Norse mythology to sell and make big money for companies that are failing until Christmastime so they use Odin as Santa to take money off people even the Christmas tree comes from Norse Mythology too

There's nothing Norse about the origins of Christmas trees.

Christmas trees started in Germany, probably sometime in the 15th century and were popularized by German Lutherans later on. German immigrants then took the Christmas tree tradition with them--which is how it arrived in America. And like all things in America, we made it bigger and flashier.

 

[lismore]

There's nothing Norse about the origins of Christmas trees.

Christmas trees started in Germany, probably sometime in the 15th century and were popularized by German Lutherans later on. German immigrants then took the Christmas tree tradition with them--which is how it arrived in America. And like all things in America, we made it bigger and flashier.

There's a passage in Tacitus about the Germans revering trees, this would be referring to 9AD. The Druids also decorated trees and put up Miseltoe, in the centuries BC. Ancient Pagan customs.

 

[ViaCrucis]

There's a passage in Tacitus about the Germans revering trees, this would be referring to 9AD. The Druids also decorated trees and put up Miseltoe, in the centuries BC. Ancient Pagan customs.

Fun tree fact: Trees exist all over the globe. People of many different cultures and religions have included trees into their mythologies, practices, and symbolism. Because trees are ubiquitous.

You can also find the use of fish and crosses across cultures and religions, in myths, in practices, in symbolism. Because fish are literally everywhere.

Pyramids have been built both in Egypt and in Mesoamerica. Are they related? Nope. But if you want to make a large stone structure, then having a large base at the bottom and it getting smaller toward the top--a pyramid--is a pretty solid architectural design choice. Also turns out that people from very different parts of the world, without any connection to each other, have independently arrived at the same thing many times. For example, if you want something to float on water--a boat--there is a pretty common shape that is efficient for that purpose.

You can't just look at one time and place and see "trees" and then conclude some kind of universal meaning and connection.

This is the problem with these "pagan origins" arguments, it's pareidolia and sensationalism--not scholarship.

 

[Michie]

Santa is directly based on St. Nicolas. Not Odin.

As Christianity spread, Norse traditions merged with the story of Saint Nicholas (a generous bishop) and other figures like Father Frost, creating the modern, merged figure of Santa Claus.

Santa Claus: Real Origins & Legend

Santa Claus has a long history steeped in Christmas traditions.

www.history.com

 

[Larniavc]

TIL that Father Christmas and Santa have separate origins.

 

[Michie]

Saint Nicholas: The Original Santa Claus | Franciscan Media

Saint Nicholas' life is one of history and mystery.

www.franciscanmedia.org

The History of Father Christmas

The jolly old man who sneaks into our houses every 24 December is beloved across the world and known by many names. But should you call him Father Christmas, St Nicholas or Santa Claus? What's the difference? Where did he come from? Is he a Christian saint or a corporate stooge?

www.english-heritage.org.uk

 

[JSRG]

There's a passage in Tacitus about the Germans revering trees, this would be referring to 9AD.

You'll have to cite the exact passage so we can have confirmation, but that seems about a century early, as Tacitus wrote around the year 100 AD, unless he was specifically referring to things a century ago.

However, this is where we run into a major problem with the whole "this thing in Christmas is like this thing pagans did way back when" arguments. If the claim is it comes from paganism, then we need evidence that:
1) Pagans actually did engage in this practice (you'd be surprised how people just make up; this is why it is critical to cite primary sources)
2) They did so in close enough proximity to Christians that Christians could have been influenced
3) Pagans did so close enough to the beginning of the applicable Christian practice that influence was possible

What a lot of people don't realize is that a lot, perhaps even the majority, of Christmas customs we have are actually recent developments of the last few centuries. By that point, paganism had gone extinct in Europe and had been so for centuries upon centuries. So whatever ancient people did that might have resembled Christmas customs (if they did do them, again a whole lot of false claims get made), it couldn't have influenced the development of those Christmas customs because there's far too big a gap of time between them.

So let's analyze this claim of yours according to these 3 requirements. You haven't demonstrated #1 because all you've done is given a vague reference to Tacitus. #2 is not clear either; Germans were outside of the Roman Empire. Were Germans, if they were doing this in the days of Tacitus, still doing it at the time when there was stronger Christian contact? And #3 is flat out; Christmas trees started around the 16th century AD, by which point those pagan practices had completely ceased long ago. Even then, I don't think Christmas trees actually got popular until several centuries later. All three of these need to be true for the "pagan influence" idea to even be possible, so failure to meet any of them means the whole thing collapses. Since #3 fails irrespective of #1 and #2, this argument is therefore without merit.

A far more plausible origin of the Christmas tree, as the Oxford Handbook of Christmas says in chapter 22, is:

“The Christmas tree tradition most likely developed from a combination of medieval liturgical traditions and guild patronage to local communities, which over time were transformed into a private practice beginning in the sixteenth century. In the medieval period, many people could not read and write, so plays were a way to communicate biblical stories. In that time, a Paradise Tree was set up for plays to represent the Tree of the Knowledge mentioned in Genesis 2:9. The actor playing Adam would later parade through the streets of the town with the tree. The tree symbolized humanity’s downfall but also represented the tree of the cross, which would become the salvation of all people. Medieval tradition even claimed that Adam had taken a branch from the Tree of Knowledge and Jesus’ cross was made from that tree. The trees were decorated with apples, representing the Fall of humankind, while round pastry wafers on the tree symbolized the Eucharistic host as the path to salvation. The plays were performed on 24 December, which was the feast day for Adam and Eve. The display of the Paradise Tree was meant to symbolize the Garden of Eden where they lived. The liturgical calendar placed their feast day here to remind Christians that Jesus’ birth was a conduit of salvation allowing humanity to return to its perfect state in the Garden.”

It went into some more detail, but this was the only portion I have easily available to post (it was so useful I made sure to jot it down for future use). Still, it is fairly easy to see how a practice of decorating a tree on December 24 could easily have caused tree decoration to spread to the very next day. However, this custom emerged from a biblical story, and while earlier than Christmas trees, again comes too late to have had plausible influence from ancient paganism.

The Druids also decorated trees and put up Miseltoe, in the centuries BC. Ancient Pagan customs.

Unlike before, where you at least cited a vague source, here you offer none (thus we cannot say that requirement #1 has been proven). But let us suppose this is indeed the case. As noted above, we run into the major problem that tree decoration on Christmas developed far too late for this to have had any impact (failing requirement #3). As for mistletoe, the "kissing under the mistletoe" tradition cannot, as far as I can tell, be traced back any farther than the 18th century, so we run afoul of #3 again by citing a tradition that developed so long after any pagans might have done it that no connection is really possible.

 

[JustaPewFiller]

To be fair, a jolly old guy bearing gifts does have more mainstream appeal than Krampus or Lussi.

 

[Sif]

This is only my personal opinion. Santa Claus (as visualized and conceptualized in general) does have some aspects of Odin. However, Santa has no ravens (Huginn and Muninn) or wolves (Geri and Freki). I see Santa more like the Finnish mythical hero Väinämöinen. Väinämöinen rides a sleigh towed by reindeer. Väinämöinen has magic abilities, mostly his magical singing voice.

The fictional character Gandalf from Tolkien's Lord of the Rings also shares many similarities with Väinämöinen, as well as Odin.

 

[Robban]

"Sorry Santa, your cover has been blown"

"How?"

"Look at the gifts, there is a label, To and from."

 

[lismore]

Fun tree fact: Trees exist all over the globe. People of many different cultures and religions have included trees into their mythologies, practices, and symbolism. Because trees are ubiquitous.

Thanks for your reply. I'm thinking that a nativity scene might be the most unambiguous decoration to use. Sometimes ambiguity is not good when clarity is needed. God Bless and Happy Christmas

 

[Sif]

The old Norse (and its modern version called Asatru) have the World Tree Yggdrasil which is a sacred ash tree. It spans the nine worlds from Hel to Asgard and Midgard in between. In Norse mythology Odin hanged himself on a tree, likely Yggdrasil, making a sacrifice of himself to himself. He was denied mead (honey wine) and pierced with a spear.



The old religion on the Eurasian steppe has Tengrism (from the sky god Tengri also sometimes associated with a blue wolf) which has a World Tree called Ulukayin.



The World Tree image likely acts as an Axis Mundi.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Thanks for your reply. I'm thinking that a nativity scene might be the most unambiguous decoration to use. Sometimes ambiguity is not good when clarity is needed. God Bless and Happy Christmas

It's not a competition.

Nativity scenes are a normative part of the western Christmas tradition--but so are Christmas trees. The Christmas tree is a multi-faceted Christian symbol: The evergreen tree points to Christ who suffered and died on a "tree" (the cross), as an evergreen it symbolizes eternal life and the hope of resurrection. The traditional use of lights (originally candles) on the tree point to Christ as the Light of the World. The Christmas tree is a symbol of God breaking into the darkness of the world, in the Person of Jesus, who was born of a Virgin and that He would conquer death by His passion, death, and resurrection.

The Advent Wreath is a similar symbol, as candles are lit through the Season of Advent--light drives away the darkness. As we look forward in hopeful anticipation for the coming of Christ. The Season of Advent contains double significance: As a time of preparation for Christmas (similar to how Lent is a preparation for Easter), in which we through our prayers and hymns engage with the ancient hope of Israel and the Prophets to await the birth of the Messiah--and as a people who believe the Messiah has come, that He will also come again in the future, to make all things new and set all things to rights. Which is why there is a focus on repentance, justice, and devotion to the poor, the hungry, and the least of these.

The contemporary problems with the holiday season in general isn't things like Christmas Trees, Santa Claus, or giving gifts to friends and loved ones. It's the hostile takeover of the season by Capitalism and consumerist greed which has turned a sacred time of quiet penitential self-reflection and joyous celebration which ought to drive us toward being good neighbors into a season of rampant avarice and selfishness.

 

[David Lamb]

Thanks for your reply. I'm thinking that a nativity scene might be the most unambiguous decoration to use. Sometimes ambiguity is not good when clarity is needed. God Bless and Happy Christmas

Most of the nativity scenes here in the UK are unbiblical, in that they have the wise men (always 3 of them, even though the bible doesn't specify how many there were) in the stable with the shepherds, with Jesus still in the manger. The bible says that the wise men visited Jesus in a house, and it was up to 2 years after His birth, which is why Herod ordered the death of all the boys 2 years old and under:

“Then Herod, when he saw that he was deceived by the wise men, was exceedingly angry; and he sent forth and put to death all the male children who were in Bethlehem and in all its districts, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had determined from the wise men.” (Mt 2:16 NKJV)

Happy Christmas to you, too!

 

[Tuur]

There's a passage in Tacitus about the Germans revering trees, this would be referring to 9AD. The Druids also decorated trees and put up Miseltoe, in the centuries BC. Ancient Pagan customs.

Here we get to something interesting. The Germanic tribes held the oak to be sacred. When Boniface convinced a tribe to cut their’s down, a fir tree grew up on the stump. Boniface used this as an illustration of the supremacy of Christ.

Later, there was a Germanic tradition of a Paradise Tree on the feast day of Adam and Eve. That’s on December 24. As various feasts and observances got mashed together with the Reformation, the Paradise Tree became the Christmas Tree.

Note: not far from here, in the stump of a damaged oak cut down after Hurricane Helene, is a fair sized pine sapling. When I pass it, Boniface’s fir tree comes to mind.

 

[JSRG]

Here we get to something interesting. The Germanic tribes held the oak to be sacred. When Boniface convinced a tribe to cut their’s down, a fir tree grew up on the stump. Boniface used this as an illustration of the supremacy of Christ.

Later, there was a Germanic tradition of a Paradise Tree on the feast day of Adam and Eve. That’s on December 24. As various feasts and observances got mashed together with the Reformation, the Paradise Tree became the Christmas Tree.

The claim of Boniface and the fir tree appears to be a substantially later addition to the story. The original recording of the event (from the 8th century) does have him cut down a tree the pagans were worshipping, but there is no mention of a fir tree growing out of it. Wikipedia actually has an article on this event (see Donar's Oak - Wikipedia) which includes a translation into English of the original account, which someone can see mentions nothing about any fir tree growing from the stump. That is an addition that appears to only have emerged in retellings from the 19th century, after Christmas trees had become commonplace (Christmas trees first emerged around the year 1500 AD though it took several more centuries to become a common practice). This is something that happens sometimes; people take an event from a story (fictional or real) from long ago and "retrofit" it with details in a retelling to explain a much more modern custom that is actually unrelated to the original story, but then people repeat the account with the added details as if it was the original.

However, your second paragraph is correct as far as I can tell; I actually mentioned it back in post #10 (I'd re-post some of it, but with the current forum bugs it rejects the post; just look back at #10 to see more details). A medieval practice in some areas of decorating a tree on December 24 to represent the Tree of Knowledge from Genesis likely "spilled over" into December 25 and then became a symbol of Christmas, and then the original reason for it (again, to symbolize the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge) got largely forgotten as a result.

 

[Mercy Shown]

Interesting article:

Odin to Santa Claus: Is Santa Inspired by Odin’s Yule Rides? - The Wicked Griffin

Could Santa Claus really be inspired by Odin? This article explores the fascinating and complex historical, mythological, and folkloric evidence connecting the Norse god Odin with the jolly old man we associate with the winter holidays. Drawing entirely from peer-reviewed books and scholarly...

thewickedgriffin.com

One of the more compelling threads in Viking history and Norse mythology is the winter role played by Odin, the Norse god known for his wisdom, magic, and sky-riding abilities.

Scholars like Margaret Baker have noted that the long-bearded, cloaked, and sky-faring Santa Claus shares striking similarities with Odin, particularly in his Yule manifestations.

In her work, Baker describes Santa Claus as a “blue-hooded, cloaked, white-bearded Giftbringer of the north,” which she links to Odin’s own depiction as a gift-bearing rider in the midwinter sky (Baker, 2007, p. 62).

This resemblance is not just cosmetic. Odin, known to lead the Wild Hunt during the Twelve Nights of Yule, often rode his magical eight-legged horse Sleipnir through the night sky, a detail echoed in Santa’s reindeer-pulled sleigh.

Such traditions reveal the persistence of pre-Christian beliefs within Christmas customs and may explain how Santa is Odin, at least in part, in European folk memory.

The Wild Hunt is a spectral, airborne procession led by Odin who was central to Germanic and Norse Yule traditions.

This myth was not only widely feared but also deeply ingrained in old Norse winter rites.

George H. McKnight identifies this imagery as formative in the evolution of the Christmas tradition, with Saint Nicholas eventually assuming traits of Odin such as gift-giving, nocturnal rides, and of course with a long beard (McKnight, 1917, pp. 138–139).

Children once left hay or oats for Odin’s steed, much like the later custom of placing out stockings or shoes, ultimately evolving into a hallmark of modern gift-giving.

This is a powerful demonstration of how ancient Yule traditions stuck around, reemerging in forms like Father Christmas and Santa Claus.

In Christmas in Ritual and Tradition, Clement A. Miles explores how pagan and Norse customs informed Christian celebrations.

He notes that Saints Martin and Nicholas may have served as Christianized stand-ins for Woden (Miles, 1912, p. 219).

The timing of Yule, falling close to December 6, the feast of St. Nicholas, plays a crucial role. During the Yule festival, figures like Odin were believed to ride the skies, rewarding the good and punishing the bad, basically echoing the now familiar “naughty or nice” list.

Though Miles presents other interpretations (including Roman influences and seasonal personifications), he acknowledges that the connection between Odin and Santa Claus cannot be dismissed outright.
Even Santa’s occasional mischief, generosity, and supernatural qualities align with Odin’s character in Norse mythology..............

Foul! I cry. He already has every Wednesday and now he wants to butt in on Chrstmas?