University of Minnesota on Whiteness Pandemic

[rambot]

Of course, you're defending something you haven't read, so what does that say?

Please point out where I've done that.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Please point out where I've done that.

The following post shows you claiming what the rhetoric mentioned in the OP says or does not say. Yet, you have not read the content of "Whiteness Pandemic".

University of Minnesota on Whiteness Pandemic

"If you were born or raised in the United States, you have grown up in the Whiteness Pandemic, and you can play a role in halting and reversing this pandemic, especially if you are White because of the power and privilege you hold in this racialized society. If you were socialized into the...

www.christianforums.com

 

[Landon Caeli]

LOL!

How is THAT a though?

"I shouldn't have to read what I'm complaining about!"

Yet, you get to say what it does or doesn't breed - without reading it yourself? Seems hypocritical, don't you think?

I can say I searched the entire internet using a bot, whereas, you've done no work at all.

 

[rambot]

The following post shows you claiming what the rhetoric mentioned in the OP says or does not say. Yet, you have not read the content of "Whiteness Pandemic".
View attachment 373816

University of Minnesota on Whiteness Pandemic

"If you were born or raised in the United States, you have grown up in the Whiteness Pandemic, and you can play a role in halting and reversing this pandemic, especially if you are White because of the power and privilege you hold in this racialized society. If you were socialized into the...

www.christianforums.com

I assumed the poster was talking about the contents visible in the first post because (obviously), they hadn't read it either.

 

[Valletta]

You searched the internet with AI, didn’t find what you were looking for and then declared it to not exist?

lol, are you serious? You apparently don’t know anything about how any of those things work. How do you know you fed the AI appropriate search terms? How do you know it was trained in the material you’re look for?

The only person being obtuse here is you.



What are you talking about? Why did you ask me what I meant by “creed” and then assume an answer that was wildly inaccurate? Are DEI and “woke ideology” your default target for anything you don’t like? If I’d wanted to say something about DEI, I would have done so.

What I meant by “creed” was an adherence to a certain set of values and ideals: all people are created equal; people deserve certain fundamental rights such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; etc. America’s very existence was built on being a “melting pot” of migrants from other cultures all working towards, as our founding myth would claim, a more prosperous future via hard work and rugged individualism. Obviously reality was somewhat more murky than that, but that’s the story we’ve told ourselves and, traditionally, becoming “American” has been more about that than about birthplace.

But some, including perhaps most notably JD Vance, are trying to change that concept of “Americanism” to something more restricted to lineage, especially lineage via certain blocs of early migrants.

This piece covers it fairly well:

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/jd-vances-dangerous-view-of-american-nationhood

Clever writing, this is one slick author. Daniel Fried could easily get a job with the establishment media. J.D. Vance y said:

I’d also say that citizenship in the 21st century necessarily means building. Because America is not just an idea, we’re a particular place with a particular people and a particular set of beliefs and way of life. Our ancestors realized that to carve a successful nation from new land meant creating new tangible things. New homes, new towns, new infrastructure to tame a wild continent. That is our heritage as Americans."

So J.D says that America is not just an idea but a particular place. The absolute truth, it's fact that applies to every country. And J.D. goes on to say that particular place comes WITH "a particular people" etc. Quite true, again something that applies to every country. Fried, in his "hit job" on J.D., give his own imaginative explanation to the reader:

He defined America as a blood-and-soil nation, a nation not based on universal ideas but composed of a what he called “particular people” with “our shared qualities,” starting with heritage. That seemed the point of his speech. Vice President Vance seemed to be redefining America, defining it down and backwards. He would undo Abraham Lincoln’s profound achievement: not just winning the Civil War but reconstituting the nation, no longer as a White Man’s republic, but a “new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.” Vice President Vance’s argument would overthrow the meaning of the Gettysburg Address, the speech that restored America to its original principles from the Declaration of Independence after its bloodiest war.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Clever writing, this is one slick author. Daniel Fried could easily get a job with the establishment media. J.D. Vance y said: I’d also say that citizenship in the 21st century necessarily means building. Because America is not just an idea, we’re a particular place with a particular people and a particular set of beliefs and way of life. Our ancestors realized that to carve a successful nation from new land meant creating new tangible things. New homes, new towns, new infrastructure to tame a wild continent. That is our heritage as Americans."

So J.D says that America is not just an idea but a particular place. The absolute truth, it's fact that applies to every country. And J.D. goes on to say that particular place comes WITH "a particular people" etc. Quite true, again something that applies to every country. Fried, in his "hit job" on J.D., give his own imaginative explanation to the reader:

He defined America as a blood-and-soil nation, a nation not based on universal ideas but composed of a what he called “particular people” with “our shared qualities,” starting with heritage. That seemed the point of his speech. Vice President Vance seemed to be redefining America, defining it down and backwards. He would undo Abraham Lincoln’s profound achievement: not just winning the Civil War but reconstituting the nation, no longer as a White Man’s republic, but a “new nation, conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.” Vice President Vance’s argument would overthrow the meaning of the Gettysburg Address, the speech that restored America to its original principles from the Declaration of Independence after its bloodiest war.

Your formatting is botched, so I can’t follow what you wrote and what you quoted. Either way, Vance also said this:

America as a purely creedal nation, America purely as an idea, that is where it would lead you. But at the same time, that answer would also reject a lot of people that the ADL would label as domestic extremists. Even those very Americans had their ancestors fight in the Revolutionary War and the Civil War. And I happen to think that it’s absurd, and the modern left seems dedicated to doing this, to saying, you don’t belong in America unless you agree with progressive liberalism in 2025. I think the people whose ancestors fought in the Civil War have a hell of a lot more claim over America than the people who say they don’t belong.​

He is very explicitly trying to shift the concept of “American” from being purely creedal to one that leans primarily on lineage.

Amusingly, he also said this:

And by the way, when we went to the moon, when we built the great future of the post-war era, we did it with our fellow citizens. And we should reject, whether it’s Democrat politicians or corporate oligarchs, who say that we can only build the future by importing millions and millions of low-wage serfs. We can do it with American citizens, we’ve just got to have the will to actually try.​

Apparently they don’t teach much history at Yale, because this is laughably untrue. The American scientific community in the mid 20th century was loaded with immigrants, notably Jews expelled from Europe and former Nazis brought over under Operation Paperclip. The lead designer on the Saturn V project was Werner von Braun.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Yeah? How much damage have immigrants done to your area?

Staying on the OP topic, I recommend you just do a Google search on the Samalia fraud ring in Minnesota and it's connection to the Al Shabab terrorist group. I will wait.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

That’s all wonderful and also totally irrelevant to the comment of mine to which you responded.

It was entirely relevant to your comments. You rolled a 3 on deflection and failed miserably.

 

[Servus]

Guy.
Him basing anything statewide on one ONE study group in ONE department in ONE university.

you're fixing deck chairs on the titanic. I mean, you really undermined his point even more.

You're just determined to make something out of nothing.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Staying on the OP topic, I recommend you just do a Google search on the Samalia fraud ring in Minnesota and it's connection to the Al Shabab terrorist group. I will wait.

Want me to point out all the fraud committed by conservative native-born Americans? We can start with the president you champion all the time. Or does fraud only bother you when it’s committed by immigrants? Would you like me to paint you guys with such a broad brush?

It was entirely relevant to your comments. You rolled a 3 on deflection and failed miserably.

I was talking about national creeds and for some reason you brought up wokeness. My comment was only related to “wokeness” if your understanding of the word is so course that it covers everything you don’t like.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Want me to point out all the fraud committed by conservative native-born Americans?

No. I want you to stay on topic and address the issue and stop deflecting to a strawman wearing red herrings.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I was talking about national creeds

What national creeds? You mean the one that says, "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the Unite States of America?"

 

[Valletta]

Vance also said this:

America as a purely creedal nation, America purely as an idea, that is where it would lead you. But at the same time, that answer would also reject a lot of people that the ADL would label as domestic extremists. Even those very Americans had their ancestors fight in the Revolutionary War and the Civil War. And I happen to think that it’s absurd, and the modern left seems dedicated to doing this, to saying, you don’t belong in America unless you agree with progressive liberalism in 2025. I think the people whose ancestors fought in the Civil War have a hell of a lot more claim over America than the people who say they don’t belong.​

He is very explicitly trying to shift the concept of “American” from being purely creedal to one that leans primarily on lineage.

Amusingly, he also said this:

And by the way, when we went to the moon, when we built the great future of the post-war era, we did it with our fellow citizens. And we should reject, whether it’s Democrat politicians or corporate oligarchs, who say that we can only build the future by importing millions and millions of low-wage serfs. We can do it with American citizens, we’ve just got to have the will to actually try.​

Apparently they don’t teach much history at Yale, because this is laughably untrue. The American scientific community in the mid 20th century was loaded with immigrants, notably Jews expelled from Europe and former Nazis brought over under Operation Paperclip. The lead designer on the Saturn V project was Werner von Braun.

On your first point your logic is flawed. Vance is speaking of the "modern left" saying a person does not belong in America unless that person agrees with progressive liberalism. Vance is simply making the point that those whose ancestors fought in previous wars have a very real claim to citizenship. That's far different than claiming ONLY such people have a claim.

On the second point you confuse the "citizens" spoken of by Vance with "immigrants." There are plenty of people (Melania Trump, for example) who came here as immigrants and later become citizens. It's a matter of history that German immigrants who later became citizens (such as Wernher Von Braun) worked together at NASA with American Jews (such as Abraham Silverstein).

 

[iluvatar5150]

On your first point your logic is flawed. Vance is speaking of the "modern left" saying a person does not belong in America unless that person agrees with progressive liberalism. Vance is simply making the point that those whose ancestors fought in previous wars have a very real claim to citizenship. That's far different than claiming ONLY such people have a claim.

He’s also saying that people who move here and espouse our values shouldn’t have a claim on it.

On the second point you confuse the "citizens" spoken of by Vance with "immigrants." There are plenty of people (Melania Trump, for example) who came here as immigrants and later become citizens. It's a matter of history that German immigrants who later became citizens (such as Wernher Von Braun) worked together at NASA with American Jews (such as Abraham Silverstein).

von Braun worked for the US government for 10 years before becoming a naturalized citizen. By that time, he was already Chief of Guided Missile Development at Redstone Arsenal and had a working prototype of our first ballistic missile. Yes, he and others became citizens, but you have to immigrate here first in order to do that, and the citizenship process takes years - years which these guys did not wait to contribute. Vance was blatantly wrong.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Yet still, nobody wants to talk about black culture and the "black pandemic." Gee, I wonder why.

 

[Valletta]

He’s also saying that people who move here and espouse our values shouldn’t have a claim on it.


von Braun worked for the US government for 10 years before becoming a naturalized citizen. By that time, he was already Chief of Guided Missile Development at Redstone Arsenal and had a working prototype of our first ballistic missile. Yes, he and others became citizens, but you have to immigrate here first in order to do that, and the citizenship process takes years - years which these guys did not wait to contribute. Vance was blatantly wrong.

And it was five or so years after Melania got her green card that she became a citizen. In the case of the German scientists that is a unique case, the U.S. led the industrialized world but a small group of German scientists was ahead in rocket science. Neither Vance nor Trump claimed that no immigrant contributes until they become a citizen. Black Lives Matter and the other organizations that preach racial division and victimhood are the problem, yet people keep trying to vilify Vance and Trump and other conservatives. Vance was correct when he stated how wrong those Democrat politicians and corporate oligarchs are when they say "that we can only build the future by importing millions and millions of low-wage serfs."

 

[rjs330]

Would you like me to paint you guys with such a broad brush?

I think the researchers and the university in the OP painted us white people wi t h it. And you don't seem to have a problem with it. I guess broad brushing is okay as long as you are doing it to white people.

 

[MrMoe]

the centuries-old culture of Whiteness features colorblindness, passivity, and White fragility, which are all covert expressions of racism common in the United States.​

Any behaviour we don’t like is secretly racism.

This is deliberately provocative to stimulate conversation about racism.

The left never shuts up about racism. We don’t need to “stimulate conversation”.

 

[DaisyDay]

Any behaviour we don’t like is secretly racism.

Obviously that's not true - it is often sexism.

The left never shuts up about racism. We don’t need to “stimulate conversation”.

If you say so then it must be so.

 

[rambot]

You're just determined to make something out of nothing.

Not reading what you are critiquing?

I don't wonder which posters would come out in favor of that strategy.