Imitatio Christi - is the following Biblical?

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Abundance to what end?

I don’t see any implication of St. Paul having had abundance in terms of personal comfort.

My position, that he was an ascetic, stands.

He chose to follow Christ, got ship-wrecked, imprisoned, etc. that sounds like asceticism (even if not by choice), but he certainly did not complain.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Co-Sufferers (Imitatio Christi): Christians are called to participate in the suffering of Christ. Personal suffering is utilized as a means of purification (removing self-will and sin) and spiritual growth. By uniting one's own pain to the Passion, it ceases to be meaningless and becomes a source of grace for oneself and others.

Is this a Biblical understanding?

I certainly agree. The Bible certainly endorses Imitatio Christi for all believers, and in addition to Clergy regarding the preaching of the Gospel and administration of the Sacraments, In persona Christi.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Some of the early and later Christian ascetics took "suffering" to a ridicuous degree. They were viewed as "God's athletes."

I don't personally consider it worthwhile to climb up on a pillar and live there, nor do I think it serves humanity to go off into the wilderness and live in isolation with God and nature.

On the other hand, I think it is commendable when people give things up, whether by choice or by circumstance, and continue to serve God in any way we can. Sometimes we give things up because they aren't healthy. Sometimes we give things up because they are taken from us.

There are many reasons to suffer the loss of things that otherwise might be enjoyable or fruitful for us. However, our good attitude speaks well of our Father in heaven.

Even when God sees fit to make man mute, or deaf, or blind, we must understand that all things come from God--both good and evil. God, however, has only the best intentions. We live in a world contaminated by evil, and God uses our evil circumstances for His good purposes.

Exo 4.10 Moses said to the Lord, “Pardon your servant, Lord. I have never been eloquent, neither in the past nor since you have spoken to your servant. I am slow of speech and tongue.”

11 The Lord said to him, “Who gave human beings their mouths? Who makes them deaf or mute? Who gives them sight or makes them blind? Is it not I, the Lord? 12 Now go; I will help you speak and will teach you what to say.”

When suffering becomes the end rather than the means, it has gone too far.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Clearly, based on the entirety of the NT, if he was speaking of himself it would have been before His conversion on the Road to Damascus, but rather, the implication seems to be an abundance of resources to sustain the ministry - not personal resources, certainly not disposable income. The idea of St. Paul spending money on himself beyond the bare necessities is unfounded.

YOU are the only one bringing this up -

No one is disputing that. What we are disputing is that he did this for his own personal enjoyment of the funds, beyond the most basic necessities of life.

I don't understand why the concept is such a fixation with you. So I will stop here -

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

@The Liturgist, Regarding the Lutheran view of self denial, mortification of the flesh, and the idea of memento morti (think of the imposition of Ashes on Ash Wednesday) is certainly not unheard of in Lutheranism. Pastor shared this video about a group of Lutheran Church Missouri Synod clergy that are advocating these practices for lay men. It is not a short interview, but is worth a look for those trying to understand these practices.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

He chose to follow Christ, got ship-wrecked, imprisoned, etc. that sounds like asceticism (even if not by choice), but he certainly did not complain.

Actually, I am wrong, Jesus Christ chose Paul to follow him.

 

[ViaCrucis]

A man who needs to have a side hustle in order to keep his needs met (food, water, lodging, travel) isn't someone who is living high off the hog. St. Paul had a trade/craft skill that he could use to meet his bare necessities. I don't know about the East, but in the West there is a long tradition of monastics engaged in a trade (e.g. beer brewing or wine making) for the purpose of meeting certain basic material needs for the community, and raising funds for certain purposes.

It seems common sense to me to think that Paul was probably living, generally speaking, low on the dime. I can't imagine any of the Apostles living in reasonable comfort, their poverty would have been part of the Cross to which they were called to carry. Christ told them that they would have it rough, but to be courageous in Him who has overcome the world.

 

[The Liturgist]

A man who needs to have a side hustle in order to keep his needs met (food, water, lodging, travel) isn't someone who is living high off the hog. St. Paul had a trade/craft skill that he could use to meet his bare necessities. I don't know about the East, but in the West there is a long tradition of monastics engaged in a trade (e.g. beer brewing or wine making) for the purpose of meeting certain basic material needs for the community, and raising funds for certain purposes.

It seems common sense to me to think that Paul was probably living, generally speaking, low on the dime. I can't imagine any of the Apostles living in reasonable comfort, their poverty would have been part of the Cross to which they were called to carry. Christ told them that they would have it rough, but to be courageous in Him who has overcome the world.

Indeed; all of the Apostles were furthermore martyred except for St. John the Beloved Disciple and Theologian, who was exiled to Patmos but alone out of all the Apostles reposed in old age.

 

[The Liturgist]

Actually, I am wrong, Jesus Christ chose Paul to follow him.

Indeed. From an Orthodox perspective we believe St. Paul could have refused our Lord, or fallen away, since St. Paul expresses a fear this would happen to him, but whether this is true or not, St. Paul remains venerable because in him we see Theosis, which according to our friend @hedrick to some extent even John Calvin had a recognition of.