Independents....

[rambot]

I'll be the first to say this is an old poll and I am more than welcome to see new contradictory evidence if it can be presented but....
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/politics/independents-pew

I have never really met a self identified "Independent" who has had a truly centrist position (or; who argues "both sides" with equal vigor)

What do you all think of Independents? IF you are one, do you believe that you are an exception to that rule?

 

[Richard T]

I'll be the first to say this is an old poll and I am more than welcome to see new contradictory evidence if it can be presented but....
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/politics/independents-pew

I have never really met a self identified "Independent" who has had a truly centrist position (or; who argues "both sides" with equal vigor)

What do you all think of Independents? IF you are one, do you believe that you are an exception to that rule?

I don't really buy their definition of a true independent. Some are not middling but instead take every issue and examine it through their own lens to support or oppose. Senator Rand is like that and so is Senator Sanders. These are the kind of people the government needs because otherwise it is just a herd all running their direction, well two herds actually. To solve America's problems we need more choices. Both parties seem quite stagnant. Many too are too defensive about their views and preferences. Who really knows the answer to some really hard questions like how much government do we want and how should that be divided up? It is not a right and wrong answer, it is just a personal preference in many cases.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I'll be the first to say this is an old poll and I am more than welcome to see new contradictory evidence if it can be presented but....
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/politics/independents-pew

I have never really met a self identified "Independent" who has had a truly centrist position (or; who argues "both sides" with equal vigor)

What do you all think of Independents? IF you are one, do you believe that you are an exception to that rule?

I think that at this point, people who call themselves "independent" are either uninformed or think that claiming to be independent gives them more street cred.

 

[Yttrium]

I have never really met a self identified "Independent" who has had a truly centrist position (or; who argues "both sides" with equal vigor)

Well... I used to have a truly centrist position before Trump first became president. Now that MAGA has replaced the conservatives, I'm in a position of being anti-MAGA. So, if we now defined liberal as being opposed to Trump, I would count as a liberal.

I'd prefer to go back to being a true centrist again.

 

[rambot]

I think that at this point, people who call themselves "independent" are either uninformed or think that claiming to be independent gives them more street cred.

I DEFINITELY lean into the 2nd one. I feel like there tends to be an air of "I'm impartial because I'm in the middle".

 

[Yttrium]

I DEFINITELY lean into the 2nd one. I feel like there tends to be an air of "I'm impartial because I'm in the middle".

Sure, sure, keep insulting us like we're not here.

 

[rambot]

Sure, sure, keep insulting us like we're not here.

I don't think I'm alone in that I've got that feeling in reading posts by some centrists.

The left gets shot at; the right gets shot at. Can centrists not take a bit of heat?

 

[essentialsaltes]

It would be difficult to be independent (or centrist) on every. single. issue.

 

[MarkSB]

I'll be the first to say this is an old poll and I am more than welcome to see new contradictory evidence if it can be presented but....
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/politics/independents-pew

I have never really met a self identified "Independent" who has had a truly centrist position (or; who argues "both sides" with equal vigor)

What do you all think of Independents? IF you are one, do you believe that you are an exception to that rule?

I definitely don't think that independents are unbiased, if that is what you are asking. They have their own life experiences which have contributed to their viewpoint, just like everyone else. And I think that comes with a tendency to lean one way or another on certain things.

I considered myself to be a conservative/Republican until Trumpism became a thing, and now consider myself to be an independent. I still have my leanings on certain issues, but I like to think that I look at the evidence and make a decision based on that as much as possible. But again, that's not to say that I don't have my personal leanings. Everyone does.

But... with all that being said - hasn't the Independent voting bloc swung in both directions during the last few presidential elections? I tried digging up some numbers, but was not able to easily find any. If they have voted in both directions, that would lend some credibility to the non-partisan claims.

 

[chevyontheriver]

It would be difficult to be independent (or centrist) on every. single. issue.

I don't think that is the point of being independent of the two big parties. I think one party is dead wrong on a bunch of things. And the other party tries to outdo them in being dead wrong in others. I was a Democrat way back when, then tried out the Republicans. So I have a clue about both parties. The Democrats changed for the worse. The Republicans have been all over the map but are currently owned by Donald Trump and I find that revolting.

I'm not centrist on everything, being free to be extreme on some things in a leftward direction and others rightward. Trying to stay studiously in the middle on every policy just doesn't fit me, but averaged out I am in the middle of the middle while the two big parties have spun out to the fringes.

 

[Yttrium]

I don't think I'm alone in that I've got that feeling in reading posts by some centrists.

The left gets shot at; the right gets shot at. Can centrists not take a bit of heat?

It's okay, it's okay. I'm not on anyone's side, because no one is on my side. Baroom.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I'll be the first to say this is an old poll and I am more than welcome to see new contradictory evidence if it can be presented but....
https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/politics/independents-pew

I have never really met a self identified "Independent" who has had a truly centrist position (or; who argues "both sides" with equal vigor)

What do you all think of Independents? IF you are one, do you believe that you are an exception to that rule?

There's two different ways one can be "moderate".

They can either be in the center of the spectrum on most of the issues, or they can hold an eclectic set of viewpoints that average out to around "the middle".

For example, if you asked someone questions from the political compass tests (where the furthest left answer is a -5 and the furthest right answer is a +5)

If a person answers with a -1/+1 on every question
or
A person answers with a -4 on half of the questions, and a +4 on the other half

...both average out to about the same place in aggregate.


Finding someone who's "perfect middle" on everything is going to be nearly impossible.

But with regards to not encountering anyone who argues for/against both sides with equal vigor, that's not exactly an accurate indicator, as you'd have to negatively weight the topic(s) that are getting talked about the most.


Example:

If "Dan Smith" is right-wing on Immigration, but to the left on a myriad of other issues, but Immigration is virtually all that's being discussed on here round the clock, and none of those other issues get discussed regularly, then that's going leave some with the (incomplete/inaccurate) impression of "Well, Dan's just a right-wing person who feigning being a moderate for more credibility and to give his arguments the patina of objectivity"

 

[Yttrium]

I definitely don't think that independents are unbiased, if that is what you are asking.

Well, sure. I'm certainly biased towards political extremes. I don't like far left or far right positions. I usually favor politicians who take moderate stances on issues. It's worth noting that "moderate" in the US is to the right of some prominent US allies.

I can't really say I'm a liberal compared to Trump's policies. I'm not against Trump and MAGA because of their political positions. Yes, I'm biased against Trump and MAGA, but my biases against them aren't political in nature.

 

[DaisyDay]

I disagree that Independent implies Centrist. We can have opinions without being beholden to party politics, especially on the local level where power dynamics dictate the party more than policy does.

Then, too, these labels can overlap - an Independent can be fiscally conservative and socially liberal, for instance, without being centrist. Or straight up conservative or liberal. I used to be officially Liberal, but that designation was abolished in my state and I got recategorized as an Independent by the BOE.

I haven't taken any loyalty oaths or purity tests, nor will I.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I disagree that Independent implies Centrist. We can have opinions without being beholden to party politics, especially on the local level where power dynamics dictate the party more than policy does.

Then, too, these labels can overlap - an Independent can be fiscally conservative and socially liberal, for instance, without being centrist. Or straight up conservative or liberal. I used to be officially Liberal, but that designation was abolished in my state and I got recategorized as an Independent by the BOE.

I haven't taken any loyalty oaths or purity tests, nor will I.

I just figured when you commented about how you rarely encounter anyone who argues against both parties with equal vigor, you were invoking the notion of centrism.

 

[DaisyDay]

I just figured when you commented about how you rarely encounter anyone who argues against both parties with equal vigor, you were invoking the notion of centrism.

I don't recall making that comment. Are you mistaking the OP for me or vice versa?

Although, now that I try to recall some such, even though I in fact rarely, if ever, have met someone who did such, I would not rule out general misanthropy over centrism.

There are more then two parties, even here. I think the "both sides" argument isn't restricted to party politics. I'm a "shades of gray" person but I don't think that qualifies as centrist.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I don't recall making that comment. Are you mistaking the OP for me or vice versa?

Ah yes, was confusing you for the OP... nevermind

 

[ThatRobGuy]

There are more then two parties, even here. I think the "both sides" argument isn't restricted to party politics. I'm a "shades of gray" person but I don't think that qualifies as centrist.

There are, but the 3rd parties still land in the "bisected" realms of the political spectrum.

So while a person may align with the green party, it's no shocker that they'd be more critical of the GOP than the Democrats, and it makes sense that a Libertarian would perhaps be more critical of the Democrats than the GOP.


I still think my response to the OP would also hold water.

Which is that a person being perceived as "really being centrist" vs. "just feigning centrism" is heavily skewed by which topics are most heavily discussed during the time.

If someone was right-wing on immigration (but perhaps left wing on a bunch of other things), but 90% of the threads on here were discussing immigration, that would certainly lead people to the false assumption of "that person's not really a centrist",

 

[MarkSB]

Well, sure. I'm certainly biased towards political extremes. I don't like far left or far right positions.

For the most part, I'm the same. One of my biggest issues with partisan politicians is that they relentlessly follow an ideology, even if their ideological solutions aren't the best fit for the current situation. Or, they will dismiss a solution out of hand because it doesn't fit their ideology. Facts are selectively chosen or just plain fabricated. Making decisions in that manner will usually get you into trouble, and I think our government provides a perfect example of that.

When religion gets blended into politics, ideology becomes even more of a driving force. From my observation, this really tends to put the blinders on people. They no longer support their solution because it is the best / most viable solution, but because it is the more "righteous" solution. It becomes difficult to reason with people or have a meaningful conversation with them when they are in that state of mind.