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Eve and the Fallacy of Moral Choices

BelieveItOarKnot

Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
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For example, what does “lawlessness was already at work within both Adam…Eve” mean?
Cited Mark 7:21-23, that evil thoughts defile everyone, A&E included, and referenced by Paul here for example:

Romans 11:32

For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

In addition to sin being "of the devil," 1 John 3:8

I know the drive to blame Adam and Eve and leave out the DEVIL from the equations is strong, and this happens when we are in denial of having the tempter in our own minds. It's a given principle in scripture.

Simply, there’s nothing in the plain text meaning or textual meaning of that Genesis verse claiming, alleging, inferring, or implying Eve had or experienced “lust.”
Just addressed with bling above if you want to browse it

In any case Eve was clearly contemplating BREAKING GODS COMMAND in her MIND prior to eating i.e. LAWLESS THOUGHTS against God's Command, even stating the command erroneously, adding to God's Words (another violation).

Let's just say that believers who only condemn Adam and Eve and leave the DEVIL, the TEMPTER out of the picture clearly missed the picture for them, and more than likely miss it for themselves as well, to this day
 
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Clare73

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Romans 7:7–11 is the classic passage where Paul identifies the dynamic that the giving of a law creates an occasion for sinful desire. To put it another way, the command itself provokes the impulse to violate it.
Sin as a reality precedes knowledge. Wrong actions are objectively wrong, even if the person does not yet know.
Moral responsibility begins with knowledge. Once awareness arrives, the person is accountable for the wrongdoing. This principle appears dozens of times in Scripture.
Legal guilt is tied to command + knowledge. The command creates the standard. Knowledge triggers accountability. Before knowledge, there is sin but not accountability.
Before existence of command, there is no sin of which to be guilty. There was no command between Adam and Moses.

'Where there is no law, there is no transgression." (Ro 4:15)
 
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bling

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As do I, for the devil and his messengers. That much I think most of us can agree on.
Since God has the power to send the Devil and his messengers to hell, why were they ever allowed to spent time on earth? What is their purpose for being here?
It may surprise you if you haven't actually studied this matter out, but just for kicks, do you know that in the entire Bible there is not one single named person said to be in hell now, or in the future?

Go figure. What everyone takes as a fact has no named person as and example.

And, again, just for kicks, not one named person is even threatened with such a fate in the entire Bible.

Again, go figure.
People who go to hell are to be forgotten, which being annihilated would help provide. So why have their names?
Well, you see, using your conclusion, it is God Himself who burns His Own children alive forever.

Is God some kind of sickO or what? Just think about what you're thinking here. It's bizarre.
I said they are annihilated, some sooner than later.

These people would be extremely unhappy in heaven, since they have repeatedly shown a discus for Charity and there is only charity in heaven. Earth has served its purpose and is gone, with only heaven with God and a place without God including annihilation left.
And you simply fail to SEE that people are blinded by the god of this world, just like we were. Uh, that would be THE DEVIL. And you just forgot that part and now only see and blame people. And GUESS WHO does that in people?

Uh, huh. Not you.
Man’s earthly objective drives everything (as it should), but you seem to have satan driving everything on earth, leaving man without an objective. The Devil is a tempter, but humans have free will to allow satan entry and allow him to stay.
It doesn't take a genius to connect the dots on the subject.

Lust of the flesh:
Gen 6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food

Lust of the eyes:

Gen 6- it was pleasant to the eyes

The pride of life:

Gen 6- a tree to be desired to make one wise

And lust stems from:
John 8:44

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do

Eve's sins are no different than the sin of anyone else: "of the devil," 1 John 3:8

But try as a person might to get anyone to actually see this connection is problematic when they are still in the grips.

Paul saw the connection quite clearly, showing Eve and the tempter IN MIND:

2 Cor. 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Satan not only operates in our minds thought temptations, he sins in words through our bodies, such as speaking through Peter to Jesus' face no less. Even entering the body of Judas to betray Jesus.

It's one of the most obvious things in the scriptures, but alas, not many really believe it happens to THEMSELVES. And in such Satan has successfully HIDDEN and SHIELDED himself. That's what THEY do "in people."

So you see, the opening post was about Eve, but it's really meant to pinpoint and isolate the enemy in us all.
If we are the victim and not the criminal, with satan being the criminal, then why Does God allow satan to continue to be around and in us?

Why did God punish Eve?
And again, that's just lack of knowledge of the scriptures on your part. Here for example we can quite easily connect DISOBEDIENCE to SATAN:

Eph. 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

The dead giveaway however to spot the PERP is people who want to burn our neighbors alive forever.

There is no greater hatred of neighbors than that. And unfortunately that infection is quite well advanced in the "body" general
Why are humans being tortured here on earth with satan living in them?
 
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Clare73

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Since God has the power to send the Devil and his messengers to hell, why were they ever allowed to spent time on earth?
What is their purpose for being here?
See Ro 9:22-23.
 
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bling

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See Ro 9:22-23.
Romans 9

Paul uses two teaching methods throughout Romans even secular philosophy classes will use Romans as the best example of these methods. Paul does an excellent job of building one premise on the previous premises to develop his final conclusions. Paul uses an ancient form of rhetoric known as diatribe (imaginary debate) asking questions and most of the time giving a strong “By no means” and then goes on to explain “why not”. Paul’s method goes beyond just a general diatribe and follows closely to the diatribes used in the individual laments in the Psalms and throughout the Old Testament, which the Jewish Christians would have known extensively. These “questions or comments” are given by an “imaginary” student making it more a dialog with the readers (students) and not just a “sermon”.

The main topic repeated extensively in Romans is the division in the Christian house churches in Rome between the Jews and Gentile Christians. You can just look up how many times Jews and gentiles are referred to see this as a huge issue.



The main question (a diatribe question) in Romans 9 Paul addresses is God being fair or just Rms. 9: 14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!



This will take some explaining, since just prior in Romans 9, Paul went over some history of God’s dealings with the Israelites that sounds very “unjust” like “loving Jacob and hating Esau” before they were born, but remember in all of Paul’s diatribes he begins before, just after or before and just after with strong support for the wrong answer (this makes it more of a debate and giving the opposition the first shot as done in all diatribes).



Who in Rome would be having a “problem” with God choosing to work with Isaac and Jacob instead of Ishmael and Esau? Would the Jewish Christian have a problem with this or would it be the Gentile Christians?



If God treaded you as privileged and special would you have a problem or would you have a problem if you were treated seemingly as common and others were treated with honor for no apparent reason?



This is the issue and Paul will explain over the rest of Romans 9-11.



Paul is specific with the issue Rms. 9: 19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?”



Who is the “one of you” is this Jewish Christian (elect) or Gentile Christian (elect) or is this “non-elect” individual (this “letter” is written to Christians and not non-Christians)?



Can Jews say they cannot be blamed for failing in their honored position or would it be the Gentiles that would say they cannot be blamed since they were not in the honored position?



Is it really significant when it comes to what really counts, if you are born a gentile or Jew in first century Rome?



Are there issues and problems with being a first century Jew and was this a problem for Paul?



The Jews were created in a special honorable position that would bring forth the Messiah and everyone else was common in comparison (the Gentiles).



How do we know Paul is specifically addressing the Jew/Gentile issue? Rms. 9: 30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.



Paul is showing from the position of being made “common” vessels by God the Gentiles had an advantage over the born Israelites (vessels of honor) that had the Law, since the Law became a stumbling stone to them. They both needed faith to rely on God’s Love to forgive them.



Without going into the details of Romans 9-11 we conclude with this diatribe question: Romans 11: 11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!



The common vessels (gentiles) and the vessels of honor (Jews) are equal individually in what is really significant when it comes to salvation, so God is not being unjust or unfair with either group.



If there is still a question about who is being addressed in this section of Rms. 9-11, Paul tells us: Rms. 11: 13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

Rm 9: 22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction?

This verse is not saying all the “vessels” created for a “common purpose” were created for destruction (they were not made from the start by the Potter “clay pigeons”). Everything that leaves the potter’s shop is of great quality. Those vessels for destruction can come from either the common group or the honor group, but God is being patient with them that will eventually be destroyed. The vessels God does develop great wrath against, will be readied for destruction, but how did they become worthy of destruction since they left the potter’s shop with his mark on them? Any vessel (honorable or common) that becomes damaged is not worthy of the potter’s signature and He would want it destroyed.

To understand this as Common vessels and special vessels look at the same idea using the same Greek words of Paul in 2 Tim 2: 20. There Paul even points out the common can become the honored vessel.

2 Tim. 2: 20 In a large house there are articles not only of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay; some are for special purposes and some for common use. 21 Those who cleanse themselves from the latter will be instruments for special purposes, made holy, useful to the Master and prepared to do any good work.

Important to note is the fact: the dishonorable vessel can cleanse themselves and become vessels of honor.

That is a short explanation, since you really need to study all of Romans especially chapters 9, 10 and 11. Also please look at individual laments in the Psalms and diatribes in general, I really cut those short.
 
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