Abortion: Can You Be Both?

[rambot]

I agree, they are not a mistake!!

Sometimes they are WORSE than a mistake. They are unwanted.

 

[Pepperdoodle]

Maybe the person doesn’t realize that it was a mistake. Maybe they don’t think that God is offended or angered by it. They’ll have to stand before Him and answer for it. It’s not my place to determine whether or not they’re a Christian, it’s my place to tell them that it is killing an innocent child.

When some stand before God one day they may try the "maybe" justification. But I don't think God will go, oh...ok.
No. If a person is saved and they are growing toward Him, read His word, seek His will...He is able to show them it is wrong to kill innocent growing babies in the womb.
If a person isn't saved, then maybe one day they will be...maybe.

 

[Pepperdoodle]

Sometimes they are WORSE than a mistake. They are unwanted.

If you're married and your spouse got to the point of not wanting you anymore, would it be ok for them to kill you to get rid of you?
No. Those who are unwanted, a baby in this case, should be given a chance at life and adoption is one wonderful option, as another in this post mentioned.
It's better than murdering the poor innocent growing baby.

 

[RamiC]

Ultimately, I support abortion because I want to improve the life of living children. Weird right?

Well did the parents of the neglected and abused young people you knew have the option of abortion when they were pregnant with those children? Were they in some place when they discovered the pregnancy where they could have legally terminated it?

 

[Delvianna]

I like to trust the people who say "adoption is the best option".
And I see I've been told "you can't combat evil with more evil".
41% of Americans identify as pro Life. That works out to 140,000,000 (41%)
At any given time there are about 400-500,000 in adoptive care. That means that less than 0.5% of Prolifers could adopt these kids and the system would be resolved.
It's truly hard for me to take "adoption is the best option" seriously as a SOLUTION to abortion given it is ALREADY A solution and those kids aren't getting adopted.
Yes some are and I am SUPER happy for them.

Ok but did you want to address the quality of any of my argument directly?
Also, I would point out that the whole point of my job was fixing evil with love and hope and kindness. You can't do a job like that without those fruits.
I didn't stop all those kids from completing suicide even with my spiritual fruits.

You can argue you don't fix evil with more evil.....but there were some very interesting correlations between increases in abortion rates and societal ills.

Is your argument that people who don't do some sins over others still qualifies as saved? If I went out and murdered people, I'm still saved? I can still call myself Christian and bring up all the times I've helped the homeless or others? I summed up my answer because I don't think your arguments are valid for the end result.

 

[rambot]

Is your argument that people who don't do some sins over others still qualifies as saved?

Well. Jesus covers my awful sins. I'm saved. Even though I accept abortion, HE will still save me.

If I went out and murdered people, I'm still saved?

Irrelevant. I didn't murder anyone. Also, I've also outlined why I don't equate abortion with murder (another fundamental difference in our opinion)

I can still call myself Christian and bring up all the times I've helped the homeless or others?

If you want.

I summed up my answer because I don't think your arguments are valid for the end result.

And that's fair.

But then address the argumetns instead of just saying they aren't valid. Where is the weak point?

 

[RamiC]

Sometimes they are WORSE than a mistake. They are unwanted.

Not by Jesus.

 

[rambot]

Well did the parents of the neglected and abused young people you knew have the option of abortion when they were pregnant with those children?

Yes they did.
I only really ever spoke to one of those parents (she was a teen when she was pregnant). Her parents didn't allow access.

Were they in some place when they discovered the pregnancy where they could have legally terminated it?

Almost all of them (except the above noted one)
Absolutely. Edmonton Alberta Canada. We have clinics; it is medically paid for.

You know how Christians talk about the "broken and sinful"? Well, spend some time doing social work and you'll understand that "broken" doesn't necessarily (by a LONG shot) refer to sin.

These parents had FAS; they had addictions issues; several of them were raped (often on substances). They were not good decision makers....and surprise surprise, they didn't make great parents.

 

[rambot]

Not by Jesus.

Never. But of course I wasn't referring to that at all.

It was by their birth parents.

 

[concretecamper]

Being a Christian, a member of the Body of Christ, is accomplished through the Sacrament of Baptism. It is not accomplished by subscribing to Christian beliefs and values. So yes, one can be an awful Christian.

 

[rambot]

If you're married and your spouse got to the point of not wanting you anymore, would it be ok for them to kill you to get rid of you?

Again. I am 48 years old. I have sentient and clearly born.
You were aghast that I likenned "lieing" to "getting an abortion"....and here you are comparing a 48 year old grown adult male to a FETUS?

As you wrote, [shakes head]

No. Those who are unwanted, a baby in this case, should be given a chance at life and adoption is one wonderful option, as another in this post mentioned.

"Should be given".
1) Why "should" it?
2) I agree adoption is a wonderful option. There are many kids already being passed over for adoption.

It's better than murdering the poor innocent growing baby.

If it LITERALLY is better than "murdering that innocent growing baby"....why are there ANY kids available in the foster system? Pro-lifers would be LINING UP to adopt wouldn't they?

 

[rambot]

So yes, one can be an awful Christian.

ARguably, most people are. Otherwise we wouldn't need grace, would we?

 

[rambot]

By the way, thanks folks. I recognize I am in a far minority and I always feel very vulnerable having this conversation because too often I feel a bit misunderstood. But, conversely, I always like trying to explain my opinion to be better understood that I am not an awful person or awful Christian.

Thus far it's been pleasant.

 

[Delvianna]

Well. Jesus covers my awful sins. I'm saved. Even though I accept abortion, HE will still save me.



Irrelevant. I didn't murder anyone. Also, I've also outlined why I don't equate abortion with murder (another fundamental difference in our opinion)

If you want.

And that's fair.

But then address the argumetns instead of just saying they aren't valid. Where is the weak point?

There is a heart beat, that isn't "alive"? If the heart beat stops and by your hand, that isn't "murder?" I'll even take it a step backwards... The DNA is completely separate from the mother and since God creates all life, (I knit you in your mothers womb) you're essentially saying the DNA that God took from the father and mother and merged together doesn't qualify as life to you... I mean, you are welcome to your opinions, but I'm just saying God's stance is different and justifying death is just not something he's going to be okay with either. And Grace is not a license to live in sin. The point of the Holy Spirit is to guide us, correct us and bring us as close as we could possibly get to being "Christ like" and not to compromise on sin, allow sin or endorse it either. Everyone accounts for themselves but since Christ said murderers won't inherit the kingdom of God, I would really take a step back and make sure you're right because even if you never are involved in an abortion, endorsing it and telling others is okay, makes you complicit in that sin, which means God will have something to say about it.

 

[concretecamper]

ARguably, most people are.

Some worse than others

 

[Pepperdoodle]

Being a Christian, a member of the Body of Christ, is accomplished through the Sacrament of Baptism. It is not accomplished by subscribing to Christian beliefs and values. So yes, one can be an awful Christian.

Thanks for your opinion.

 

[rambot]

Some worse than others

And you are not as bad as the others I guess right?

 

[Pepperdoodle]

Again. I am 48 years old. I have sentient and clearly born.
You were aghast that I likenned "lieing" to "getting an abortion"....and here you are comparing a 48 year old grown adult male to a FETUS?
As you wrote, [shakes head]
"Should be given".
1) Why "should" it?
2) I agree adoption is a wonderful option. There are many kids already being passed over for adoption.
If it LITERALLY is better than "murdering that innocent growing baby"....why are there ANY kids available in the foster system? Pro-lifers would be LINING UP to adopt wouldn't they?

Thanks for your opinions in this post.

 

[concretecamper]

And you are not as bad as the others I guess right?

What? Objectively speaking, some are worse than others.

 

[rambot]

If the heart beat stops and by your hand, that isn't "murder?"

1) Nope. Not if it's little more than an conglomeration of cells. Not to me.
2) Also, out of curiousity, is your argument then that BEFORE a heartbeat, it's NOT "murder"?

I'll even take it a step backwards... The DNA is completely separate from the mother and since God creates all life, (I knit you in your mothers womb) you're essentially saying the DNA that God took from the father and mother and merged together doesn't qualify as life to you... I mean, you are welcome to your opinions, but I'm just saying God's stance is different and justifying death is just not something he's going to be okay with either.

Whoa. Back up. You just provide your logic and then confidently said it's "God's stance".
I'm saying it does not yet qualify as a life, that's correct. I view life as more than a random collection of DNA.

And Grace is not a license to live in sin.

I agree.

The point of the Holy Spirit is to guide us, correct us and bring us as close as we could possibly get to being "Christ like" and not to compromise on sin, allow sin or endorse it either.

Sure.

Everyone accounts for themselves but since Christ said murderers won't inherit the kingdom of God, I would really take a step back and make sure you're right because even if you never are involved in an abortion, endorsing it and telling others is okay, makes you complicit in that sin, which means God will have something to say about it.

As I've mentioned I don't believe it is murder nor do in ANY WAY, believe the 10 commandments refers to abortion.

We've carved out a place for solidiers in war to "murder"...


All this said, thank you for a more thought filled response!