He’s a citizen with a Real ID. ICE detained him anyway. Twice.

[Hentenza]

OK with propaganda? No.

No. Is the left ok with illegal immigration?

 

[Hentenza]

How exactly is rhe 4th Ammendment being violated? The 4th ammendment does not require warrants to sieze illegal aliens. We hear people crying "where's your warrant, where's your warrant". It's a total lie. They don't need a warrant to pick up illegal aliens. So, I don't know what you are talking about here.

That is not what Im arguing. The 4th amendment protects people from unreasonable government search and seizures. I contend that stopping someone on the street because they “look” illegal or Latino is not reasonable. I know what SCOTUS ruled but I don’t agree with it. I think SCOTUS just kicked the proverbial “can”down the road. This is not a good precedent to set because, in my opinion, it weakens the constitution. Feels like we are back in the McCarthy era.

As far as warrants, ICE can only enter public areas of a private business and they can be asked to leave. They will need a warrant to enter private areas of the business. A fenced in construction site is a private business with no public areas, therefore, ICE needs a warrant to enter. In order to get a warrant they need probable cause.

 

[Hentenza]

The constitution protects from unreasonable searches and seizures. It is not a blanket protection from law enforcement

Actually it is. The operative word here is “unreasonable”. There are emergency situations where the safety of the public is at immediate danger were LE can stop people that they deem suspicious. There is nothing immediately dangerous to the public about stopping a truck with a ladder on top unless the ladder is the weapon lol.

With over 20,000,000 illegal aliens in the US, now down to probably 18,000,000, the ICE raids are not unreasonable

Yes the raids are unreasonable. ICE still needs to not trample the constitution in their haste to keep up with the quota.

It is your opinion that illegal immigration is not a problem, but our president disagrees.

Strawman. Never argued that.

Article II and current statutes give him the sole discretion to determine what constitutes an invasion, what is a problem and where law enforcement needs to be directed

Again, it all has to be done within the framework of the constitution. These people are not enemy combatants. Look get rid of the criminals by using proper investigation techniques to identify the criminals. Regular police do this all the time.

Latinos can protect themselves by knowing their rights and having proper encounters with law enforcement. If they are citizens, they will enjoy the freedoms that accompany citizenship

Great but they should not have to be subjected to an illegal search without probable cause. Again, what does an illegal Mexican look like?

Your whining about the 4th amendment does not override article II or article I which gave the president statutory authority. Don’t like him? Vote him out

Not whining at all but it seems like you are because I’m challenging your boy. Article II is subject to the rest of the constitution not in spite of the rest of the constitution.

In the current declaration, it is not unreasonable to question anyone’s immigration status.

Like the Russians used to do? Papers please comrade?

Citizens need to be prepared to defend their freedom by supporting law enforcement not fighting them.

No problem. I have always supported law enforcement .

Illegal aliens should live in fear, they are here illegally. Self deport of face law enforcement. They have a choice.

You are Catholic. Maybe you should listen to your pope.

“Pope Leo has come out in support of a rare special message released by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops in recent days that lamented a "climate of fear and anxiety around questions of profiling and immigration enforcement."

"I think we have to look for ways of treating people humanely, treating people with the dignity that they have," he said. "If people are in the United States illegally, there are ways to treat that. There are courts, there's a system of justice."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/pope-leo-us-catholic-bishops-migrants-9.6984223

I could see if we were rounding up Latinos and herding them into concentration camps or ghettos, but that it not the case. They are being deported according to the civil penalty that follows their act if they are here illegally.

So you consider places like Alligator Alcatraz to not be like a concentration camp? You really need to wake up from that dream.

It is written that a house divided against itself cannot stand.

That is a biblical concept that relates to casting out demons. Are you equating illegal aliens to casting out demons?

Too long we have been subject to agitators who wish to use the constitution against their own country.

Like who? Are you just venting cause I have no clue how this relates to our conversation.

The fourteenth amendment does not confer birthright citizenship ,

You are joking right? Have you read it?

and the fourth amendment does not protect against reasonable searches and seizures,

They have to be reasonable and stopping someone that is walking down the street or driving a truck with construction tools in it is NOT reasonable.

the fifth amendment is only applicable if citizens know how to properly invoke it. If they waive their rights knowingly or unknowingly, they are not protected by the fifth amendment.

Why would most people even have to get to this point? I’ve lived in the states for over 60 years and never even faced an opportunity to use it.

It is only an opinion that people have about the 4th, 5th, and 14th amendment that causes our current problem ,

Like you? Cause if course your opinion would be absolutely right and everyone else would be wrong. I bet you are the best driver out there too.

and we had plenty of subversives that wish to use article III against their own country.
Same thing happened to President Lincoln, and he invoked the insurrection act.

Completely irrelevant to our present situation. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus to suppress dissent and maintain public safety during the Civil War by allowing the arrest and detention of suspected traitors and saboteurs without formal charges. This is hardly what is happening now.

The Supreme Court will hopefully clarify things soon.

I hope so.

That is constitutional, subversive opinion is not

Is my opinion subversive?

 

[NxNW]

No. Is the left ok with illegal immigration?

No, but fortunately it hasn't been a problem for years now, since Trump built the wall and Mexico paid for it.

 

[Valletta]

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus to suppress dissent and maintain public safety during the Civil War by allowing the arrest and detention of suspected traitors and saboteurs without formal charges. This is hardly what is happening now.

Indeed, we have a situation where one administration blatantly violated our Constitution, bringing in 10 to 20 million people, all in a quest to eventually establish one party control. Trump has not detained the instigators and saboteurs without formal charges. But it would be a mockery of justice to not expedite the deportation of those individuals here illegally.

 

[Hentenza]

No, but fortunately it hasn't been a problem for years now, since Trump built the wall and Mexico paid for it.

But during Biden presidency millions entered the US illegally. The border was extremely porous then.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

How exactly is rhe 4th Ammendment being violated? The 4th ammendment does not require warrants to sieze illegal aliens. We hear people crying "where's your warrant, where's your warrant". It's a total lie. They don't need a warrant to pick up illegal aliens. So, I don't know what you are talking about here.

It’s an insurrection, because not enough people want to vote for extreme left wing democrats so they have to manufacture congressional seats by inflating population numbers. Rigging elections by having mail in ballots and no ID, and gerrymandering

Actually it is. The operative word here is “unreasonable”. There are emergency situations where the safety of the public is at immediate danger were LE can stop people that they deem suspicious. There is nothing immediately dangerous to the public about stopping a truck with a ladder on top unless the ladder is the weapon lol.

Yes the raids are unreasonable. ICE still needs to not trample the constitution in their haste to keep up with the quota.

Strawman. Never argued that.

Again, it all has to be done within the framework of the constitution. These people are not enemy combatants. Look get rid of the criminals by using proper investigation techniques to identify the criminals. Regular police do this all the time.


Great but they should not have to be subjected to an illegal search without probable cause. Again, what does an illegal Mexican look like?

Not whining at all but it seems like you are because I’m challenging your boy. Article II is subject to the rest of the constitution not in spite of the rest of the constitution.



Like the Russians used to do? Papers please comrade?

No problem. I have always supported law enforcement .

You are Catholic. Maybe you should listen to your pope.

“Pope Leo has come out in support of a rare special message released by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops in recent days that lamented a "climate of fear and anxiety around questions of profiling and immigration enforcement."

"I think we have to look for ways of treating people humanely, treating people with the dignity that they have," he said. "If people are in the United States illegally, there are ways to treat that. There are courts, there's a system of justice."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/pope-leo-us-catholic-bishops-migrants-9.6984223

So you consider places like Alligator Alcatraz to not be like a concentration camp? You really need to wake up from that dream.

That is a biblical concept that relates to casting out demons. Are you equating illegal aliens to casting out demons?

Like who? Are you just venting cause I have no clue how this relates to our conversation.

You are joking right? Have you read it?

They have to be reasonable and stopping someone that is walking down the street or driving a truck with construction tools in it is NOT reasonable.

Why would most people even have to get to this point? I’ve lived in the states for over 60 years and never even faced an opportunity to use it.

Like you? Cause if course your opinion would be absolutely right and everyone else would be wrong. I bet you are the best driver out there too.

Completely irrelevant to our present situation. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus to suppress dissent and maintain public safety during the Civil War by allowing the arrest and detention of suspected traitors and saboteurs without formal charges. This is hardly what is happening now.

I hope so.

Is my opinion subversive?

Your opinion is your opinion, when it goes against the interest of the majority of the American people, it is subversive

The Catholic Bishops have come out in favor of a country controlling its borders. The Bible says to be subject to governing authorities because they bear not the sword in vain
Peter also says to obey those appointed over you, not just the ones you agree with or think are good, but also the froward or those you think do not deserve your loyalty or respect. They hold the office, you don’t

The analogy of bolshevick Russia is spurious. We have more to fear from democrats and left wing ideologues in that realm, than President Trump actually wanting to enforce the laws Congress has passed and he is elected to enforce

If you are Christian, I wish you would remember your first love. If any man come after me, let him deny his very self, take up his cross and begin to follow in my footsteps.
That means obedience. Obedience to parents, obedience to Church authorities and obedience to governmental authorities. Not being a scoff law when it comes to immigration. If we really cared about immigrants, we should expand the means of legal immigration, not reward the bad behavior of illegal immigration. How can anyone claim to obey God whom they cannot see, when they will not obey those appointed over them whom they can see? The argument is absurd

Democrats get elected in a free and fair election, I would be required to obey. As it is, they are not in power and that which they held for over 50 years is slipping away. Things could change, but for now they are irrelevant

Being against illegal immigration does not mean that I hate Latinos, although some may say that it does. Want to know how to unite divide cultures? Study the apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe. Her image is on a Tilma in Mexico City. She united Aztec, Spaniard and Anglo cultures in the 16th century and ended the practice of human sacrifice, during the time when there could be up to 80,000 slain in 4 days
Human sacrifice was ended
Ironically it is left wing lies that brought it back. The blood of the unborn flows in a river greater than any Aztec temple or fire pit of moloch
It is very telling that the image of Our Lady blends the Aztec and Spanish culture, with the wings of the angel supporting her under the moon has wings of red, white and blue
Obedience does not mean cultural annihilation, disobedience will lead to chaos and death

 

[Hentenza]

Indeed, we have a situation where one administration blatantly violated our Constitution, bringing in 10 to 20 million people, all in a quest to eventually establish one party control. Trump has not detained the instigators and saboteurs without formal charges. But it would be a mockery of justice to not expedite the deportation of those individuals here illegally.

There is not a comparison between a civil war and today. You guys seem to try to equate belligerents fighting a civil war and illegal immigrants. Expediting deportations still has to be done within the framework of the constitution not outside of it. Expediting deportations does not justify stoping people without probable cause to just check their “papers”.

 

[Hentenza]

Your opinion is your opinion, when it goes against the interest of the majority of the American people, it is subversive

lol You might want to reassess your opinion. By your measure it seems that your opinion is now subversive.

“A majority of Americans disapprove of Immigration and Customs Enforcement operations linked to the Trump administration’s mass deportation drive, according to a YouGov survey released on Friday. The poll found that 53 percent of citizens somewhat or strongly disapprove of ICE, while 39 percent approve of how the agency is operating.”

https://www.firstpost.com/world/majority-of-americans-disapprove-of-ice-raids-tied-to-trumps-mass-deportation-drive-poll-finds-13951163.html

 

[boughtwithaprice]

lol You might want to reassess your opinion. By your measure it seems that your opinion is now subversive.

“A majority of Americans disapprove of Immigration and Customs Enforcement operations linked to the Trump administration’s mass deportation drive, according to a YouGov survey released on Friday. The poll found that 53 percent of citizens somewhat or strongly disapprove of ICE, while 39 percent approve of how the agency is operating.”

https://www.firstpost.com/world/majority-of-americans-disapprove-of-ice-raids-tied-to-trumps-mass-deportation-drive-poll-finds-13951163.html

The opinion that matters is at the ballot box, and Donald Trump was elected. You will have the opportunity to voice your opinion in 2026 and 2028. The election is the opinion that matters .
Skewed public opinion polls do not carry the weight of law Laugh all you want, your amusement numbs your mind to the truth

Oh and even the Pope says countries have the right to protect their borders. Biden did not

Pope Leo Rebukes Pro-Migration Advocates

Pope Leo Rebukes Pro-Migration Advocates

Pope Leo XIV politely rebuked the many pro-migration advocates who portray him and the Catholic Church as supporters of mass migration.

www.breitbart.com

 

[NxNW]

But during Biden presidency millions entered the US illegally. The border was extremely porous then.

Never happened. No way they made it over Trump's wall.

 

[Valletta]

There is not a comparison between a civil war and today. You guys seem to try to equate belligerents fighting a civil war and illegal immigrants. Expediting deportations still has to be done within the framework of the constitution not outside of it. Expediting deportations does not justify stoping people without probable cause to just check their “papers”.

There is no way one party is going to bring in all of those people in violation of the Constitution and then try and hide behind the Constitution and delay their processing for years until they can take over for good. The missing children need to be rescued and the criminals deported.

 

[Hentenza]

The opinion that matters is at the ballot box, and Donald Trump was elected. You will have the opportunity to voice your opinion in 2026 and 2028. The election is the opinion that matters .
Skewed public opinion polls do not carry the weight of law Laugh all you want, your amusement numbs your mind to the truth

What truth?

BTW- As an independent I voted for Trump (really against Harris) in the last election but am not a groupie like you. I’m still centrist while you have jumped all the way to far right. The minority opinion, if you even want to call it that, is not subversive.

Oh and even the Pope says countries have the right to protect their borders. Biden did not

Pope Leo Rebukes Pro-Migration Advocates

Pope Leo Rebukes Pro-Migration Advocates

Pope Leo XIV politely rebuked the many pro-migration advocates who portray him and the Catholic Church as supporters of mass migration.

www.breitbart.com

Your arguments really is all over the place and your Strawman continues. There is nothing wrong about protecting the border but there is everything wrong by treating people inhumanely. That is your pope’s message.

 

[Hentenza]

Never happened. No way they made it over Trump's wall.

The wall is only as good as the door.

 

[Hentenza]

There is no way one party is going to bring in all of those people in violation of the Constitution and then try and hide behind the Constitution and delay their processing for years until they can take over for good. The missing children need to be rescued and the criminals deported.

Which, again, has nothing to do with my argument.

 

[NxNW]

The wall is only as good as the door.

Where's the door? Link?

 

[Valletta]

What truth?

BTW- As an independent I voted for Trump (really against Harris) in the last election but am not a groupie like you. I’m still centrist while you have jumped all the way to far right. The minority opinion, if you even want to call it that, is not subversive.

Your arguments really is all over the place and your Strawman continues. There is nothing wrong about protecting the border but there is everything wrong by treating people inhumanely. That is your pope’s message.

The U.S. Catholic bishops statement says: "We recognize that nations have a responsibility to regulate their borders and establish a just and orderly immigration system for the sake of the common good. Without such processes, immigrants face the risk of trafficking and other forms of exploitation. Safe and legal pathways serve as an antidote to such risks."
I also agree that the deportation process should be humane.

 

[Hentenza]

Where's the door? Link?

Didn’t get the joke? Oh well.

 

[Hentenza]

The U.S. Catholic bishops statement says: "We recognize that nations have a responsibility to regulate their borders and establish a just and orderly immigration system for the sake of the common good. Without such processes, immigrants face the risk of trafficking and other forms of exploitation. Safe and legal pathways serve as an antidote to such risks."
I also agree that the deportation process should be humane.

Show me one of my posts where I argued against a just and orderly immigration system.

My argument has been about the trampling of the 4th amendment by stopping people just because they look Hispanic and, to the poster that I answered in the post you quoted, regarding his inhumane comments.

 

[Valletta]

Show me one of my posts where I argued against a just and orderly immigration system.

My argument has been about the trampling of the 4th amendment by stopping people just because they look Hispanic and, to the poster that I answered in the post you quoted, regarding his inhumane comments.

I just quoted to give a more complete picture, I accuse you of nothing. I agree with you, all people must be treated humanely. The Supreme Court has ruled that there must be reasonable suspicion, and "looking Hispanic" alone does not meet that level. However, it can be a factor to allow people to be briefly stopped and questioned. It is unfortunate for many immigrants that the Biden administration so trashed our Constitution and border laws. Much more action is necessary to deal with the disaster, to find and rescue the missing children and to deport criminals, and as a result it is likely people who might well have been citizens without the Biden tactics will end up getting deported. The majority of Americans realize what a boon legal immigration is to our country and that all people should be treated humanely. I am also aware that there are Americans who do justify inhumane actions, I recall the poll where 41% of young Americans felt the killing of the United Healthcare CEO was acceptable.