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The Schumer Shutdown

MarkSB

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Premiums have increased by 80%.
  1. From 2010 to 2023, the average premium for family coverage increased 80%, from just over $13,000 to nearly $24,000.
  2. Total healthcare costs for a family of four now exceed $30,000 per year—increasing from $18,000 per year when Obamacare was passed.

So to be clear, you think that you can lay the entirety of those increases at the feet of Obama and the ACA? Health care cost inflation was a thing before the ACA existed, and it will continue to be a thing even if the ACA were completely removed.

On the graph below, I see a straight line right through 2010. No major change in the slope whatsoever.

1763257488811.png


 
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rjs330

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So to be clear, you think that you can lay the entirety of those increases at the feet of Obama and the ACA? Health care cost inflation was a thing before the ACA existed, and it will continue to be a thing even if the ACA were completely removed.

On the graph below, I see a straight line right through 2010. No major change in the slope whatsoever.

View attachment 373209

This is the problem with the ACA. It did NOT do what was promised. It was promised that it would bring down the costs and it didn't. You think the continuation of the rising cost was good? When we were told it would bring it down? Thats not a win, thats a total loss.
 
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Desk trauma

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This is the problem with the ACA. It did NOT do what was promised. It was promised that it would bring down the costs and it didn't. You think the continuation of the rising cost was good? When we were told it would bring it down? Thats not a win, thats a total loss.
How about that replacement that’s going to fix all this?
 
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Job 33:6

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I didn't say he coined the name only that he distanced himself because not one of his promises about the ACA came true

  1. You can keep you plan - wrong
  2. You can keep your doctor - Wrong
  3. Health insurance cost will go down - Wrong
Here is the truth:

  1. Premiums have increased by 80%.
  2. From 2010 to 2023, the average premium for family coverage increased 80%, from just over $13,000 to nearly $24,000.
  3. Total healthcare costs for a family of four now exceed $30,000 per year—increasing from $18,000 per year when Obamacare was passed.
  4. Deductibles have increased over 50% since Obamacare was implemented in 2013.
Remember this beauty?

Boston on October 30, 2013, President Obama promoted the Affordable Care Act (ACA) and emphasized its affordability. He stated that “for many Americans, health insurance will cost less than the cost of your cell phone bill or cable bill.”
The ACA has decreased costs for million of Americans. The job is simply incomplete.

Universal healthcare is the best system because it ensures that everyone, regardless of income, job status, or health history, can access essential medical care without facing financial ruin, leading to earlier treatment, fewer preventable deaths, and a healthier overall population. Countries with universal systems consistently achieve longer life expectancy, lower infant mortality, and lower per-capita costs than nations without it, because universal coverage emphasizes preventive care, cost control, and streamlined administration instead of expensive emergency-only treatment. It also strengthens the workforce and economy by keeping people healthier, reducing medical bankruptcy, and giving employers relief from rising insurance burdens. In short, universal healthcare delivers better health outcomes, more fairness, and greater economic efficiency than systems that tie care to ability to pay.

Every major country that uses universal healthcare, France, Germany, Canada, Japan etc. All receive healthcare at a fraction of the cost that we do, and they all have better health outcomes and in most, if not all cases, longer average lifespans.

Country - per capita healthcare cost, and whether or not they use universal healthcare:

United States~ $14,880 per person
No — the U.S. does not have universal health care coverage

Germany~ $8,000
Yes — universal, multi-payer system with statutory insurance.

Switzerland~ $8,000
Yes — mandatory private insurance for all residents.

Norway~ $9,300–10,000
Yes — tax-funded universal coverage.

France~ $6,900
Yes — universal health insurance plus complementary private insurance.

Canada~ $6,800–6,900
Yes — government-funded universal coverage for medically necessary services.

Australia~ $6,800 (2022)
Yes — Medicare system provides universal access.

United Kingdom~ $5,000–5,500 (2022) (OECD mid‑range)
Yes — National Health Service (NHS) provides universal care.

Japan~ $5,400–5,500 (2022)
Yes — universal coverage via mandatory statutory insurance.

Netherlands~ $7,300 (2022)
Yes — universal system, mostly via regulated private insurance.

Collectively it's much cheaper to have taxes fund a streamlined and efficient universal option, over us paying directly into expensive and disjointed private health insurers.

America has hundreds of independent insurers all negotiating their own prices, creating an administrative nightmare that jacks up costs on the public. And people aren't shopping around for the best deals because nobody knows what medical care costs, nor is anyone interested in finding out when they're in the middle of having a stroke.
 
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Aldebaran

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How about that replacement that’s going to fix all this?
I'm sure Schumer has one in mind since he shut the government down over it, and then his strategy failed. Now he'll come up with a better solution come February. You'll see!
 
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Desk trauma

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I'm sure Schumer has one in mind since he shut the government down over it, and then his strategy failed. Now he'll come up with a better solution come February. You'll see!
The repeal and replace mantra didn’t come from Schumer, so, how about that republican plan that would improve on the
ACA?
 
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rjs330

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How about that replacement that’s going to fix all this?
Thats a good point. I don't see one on the table from the Republicans or Democrats.

The point i was making was the Aca didnt actually fix anything and didn't do as promised and still is massively supported by subsidies and did not bring the cost of anything down. Its terrible, its costly and I think we were lied to about it.

But a different plan? Right now neither party has put one on the table as a serious alternative. But just because no one has doesnt mean Obamacare is a good plan.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Aldebaran

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The repeal and replace mantra didn’t come from Schumer, so, how about that republican plan that would improve on the
ACA?
No, of course it didn't come from Schumer. He has no idea about how to handle healthcare other than to deprive millions of people of food and paychecks. But I applaud the confidence you're showing in the Republicans dealing with it instead of the democrats.
 
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Aldebaran

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I stopped there because it is an inaccurate statement.
No doubt! Schumer highlighted that fact by shutting down the government in order to extort 1.5 trillion dollars from the taxpayers to pay for the very subsidies that contradict the "affordability" claim.
 
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Job 33:6

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I stopped there because it is an inaccurate statement.
How is it innacurate?

Research from Brookings estimates that right after the ACA started, average premiums for benchmark silver plans were 10–21% lower than what the individual-market premiums had been before the ACA, and those plans cover more health costs than the old ones.

A report from the Center for American Progress similarly argues that the ACA has “produced more coverage for much less money” — in part through strong marketplace competition.

According to Brookings, the uninsured rate for working-age adults fell from ~20.8% in 2013 (pre-ACA) to ~11.6% in 2022.
Brookings

Nearly half of the uninsured were “brought in” under ACA expansions (Medicaid + marketplace).


Seems pretty simple that if subsidies expire that people's premiums would increase. Meaning that the ACA subsidies are saving people money.
 
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Job 33:6

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No doubt! Schumer highlighted that fact by shutting down the government in order to extort 1.5 trillion dollars from the taxpayers to pay for the very subsidies that contradict the "affordability" claim.
For many Americans, the ACA has saved money, especially among people who qualify for premium subsidies and cost-sharing reductions. Research shows that low-income adults receiving these subsidies experienced significantly lower out-of-pocket costs, including a 17% overall reduction and a 30% drop in the likelihood of catastrophic medical bills. Cost-sharing reductions can also shrink deductibles dramatically, in some cases from over $3,000 to just a few hundred dollars. Studies from the Commonwealth Fund and UCLA confirm that the ACA improved financial protection for millions by lowering what people pay both at the doctor and at tax time.
 
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Desk trauma

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No, of course it didn't come from Schumer. He has no idea about how to handle healthcare other than to deprive millions of people of food and paychecks. But I applaud the confidence you're showing in the Republicans dealing with it instead of the democrats.
Just anxious to see the replacement 15 years in the making.
 
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Aldebaran

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For many Americans, the ACA has saved money, especially among people who qualify for premium subsidies and cost-sharing reductions. Research shows that low-income adults receiving these subsidies experienced significantly lower out-of-pocket costs, including a 17% overall reduction and a 30% drop in the likelihood of catastrophic medical bills. Cost-sharing reductions can also shrink deductibles dramatically, in some cases from over $3,000 to just a few hundred dollars. Studies from the Commonwealth Fund and UCLA confirm that the ACA improved financial protection for millions by lowering what people pay both at the doctor and at tax time.
All at at cost of $1,500,000,000,000 (and increasing each year) to the taxpayers (and their great-great grandchildren).
"Save money!" Ha!
 
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Aldebaran

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Just anxious to see the replacement 15 years in the making.
Once we stop subsidizing the health insurance companies, costs can go down. But Schumer wants the insurance companies to have our money so badly that he shut the government down to (fail to) make that happen.
 
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A2SG

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Once we stop subsidizing the health insurance companies, costs can go down. But Schumer wants the insurance companies to have our money so badly that he shut the government down to (fail to) make that happen.
While I agree that we shouldn't be supporting the for-profit health insurance industry, and the billions of dollars the industry rakes in every year in profit greatly contributes to the rising cost of health care, the fact remains: Americans get their health care through that same health insurance industry. If there were a better way to obtain health care, say through a single payer system like many other nations have, that would be far more cost effective and a lot more comprehensive, I'd fully support it.

But we're not getting one any time soon. Because of those billions of dollars in profit.

Until that changes, if people want health care, insurance companies will get their money.

-- A2SG, the GOP certainly hasn't offered any alternatives to that idea....do you have any?
 
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Pommer

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