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Is President Trump Corrupt? Three Stories.

ThatRobGuy

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Is President Trump Corrupt?
Is he in politics?

If the the answer to that question is "Yes", then my answer is "probably, at least to some degree"
 
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Hans Blaster

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Is he in politics?

If the the answer to that question is "Yes", then my answer is "probably, at least to some degree"
There are specific examples given in this thread. There is not need to go to (the cynical) "all politicians are at least a little corrupt" narrative to sort out the question for Trump. The question that remains for any reader is "do you find those actions to be corrupt? Certainly they do for many posters.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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There are specific examples given in this thread. There is not need to go to (the cynical) "all politicians are at least a little corrupt" narrative to sort out the question for Trump. The question that remains for any reader is "do you find those actions to be corrupt? Certainly they do for many posters.

Well, if it's a loaded question being asked, why not give a loaded answer? lol

If you want to be a major player in US politics, you gotta kiss someone's rear-end and promise favors in return for campaign donations.

Not sure why that's controversial to point out.


Oh...wait?... is this one of those times where we're supposed pretend that Trump is uniquely bad in some regard?

Whoops...I missed the queue. Sorry about that. I'll fall in line and be a good boy.

Allow me to bend a knee and worship at the alter of Philosophy 101 professors:
Orange man bad... He's orange and bad and a man who's also orange and a man who's bad and orange and bad...not to mention a man and bad who's also orange...not to mention racist transphobic and bad, please tax me at 40%.


Phew, that was close...

I almost fell into the grips of the KKK until someone set me on the right path and made me see the light, and convinced that Trump is the worst human in the history of humans who's uniquely bad in every way.
 
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Dale

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Well, if it's a loaded question being asked, why not give a loaded answer? lol

If you want to be a major player in US politics, you gotta kiss someone's rear-end and promise favors in return for campaign donations.

Not sure why that's controversial to point out.


Oh...wait?... is this one of those times where we're supposed pretend that Trump is uniquely bad in some regard?

Whoops...I missed the queue. Sorry about that. I'll fall in line and be a good boy.

Allow me to bend a knee and worship at the alter of Philosophy 101 professors:
Orange man bad... He's orange and bad and a man who's also orange and a man who's bad and orange and bad...not to mention a man and bad who's also orange...not to mention racist transphobic and bad, please tax me at 40%.


Phew, that was close...

I almost fell into the grips of the KKK until someone set me on the right path and made me see the light, and convinced that Trump is the worst human in the history of humans who's uniquely bad in every way.

The problem is, when you say that all politicians are corrupt you just encourage politicians to live down to their reputation.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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The problem is, when you say that all politicians are corrupt you just encourage politicians to live down to their reputation.

I'm pretty sure the "money for favors" arrangement and lobbying system is what encourages them to partake in that.

In the entire legislature (house and senate)

There's what? Maybe 5 or 6 that don't take big corporate PAC money or dark money contributions?


Congressmen and House Reps make $174,000 per year. If you had to venture a guess at how many are multi-millionaires, what would your guess be?




Speaking as someone who has an income that's not wildly off of that $174k number... how are so many of them tripling and quadrupling their net worth in a period of 10 years? I have a good salary, my home was just recently paid off, and I'm in a "Dual income-no kids" situation, I don't have enough left over that I'd be able to pad my net worth by millions of dollars over the next 8-10 years.
 
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Dale

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I'm pretty sure the "money for favors" arrangement and lobbying system is what encourages them to partake in that.

In the entire legislature (house and senate)

There's what? Maybe 5 or 6 that don't take big corporate PAC money or dark money contributions?

Where I live in Florida, the state Cabinet just approved a land deal that was very shady, obviously corrupt. The outgoing Speaker of the House strongly and publicly disagreed. The State Cabinet, including the Governor, and the Speaker are all Republicans. Some politicians do have values besides grab, grab, grab.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Where I live in Florida, the state Cabinet just approved a land deal that was very shady, obviously corrupt. The outgoing Speaker of the House strongly and publicly disagreed. The State Cabinet, including the Governor, and the Speaker are all Republicans. Some politicians do have values besides grab, grab, grab.
I was in the process of editing my post to add some stuff to it when you were replying, so not sure if you saw this second part of it

****************************************

Congressmen and House Reps make $174,000 per year. If you had to venture a guess at how many are multi-millionaires, what would your guess be?




Speaking as someone who has an income that's not wildly off of that $174k number... how are so many of them tripling and quadrupling their net worth in a period of 10 years? I have a good salary, my home was just recently paid off, and I'm in a "Dual income-no kids" situation, I don't have enough left over that I'd be able to pad my net worth by millions of dollars over the next 8-10 years.

*****************************************

I don't doubt that there's some state & local level politicians who still have some values.

But per the links I posted, finding one in federal politics is rare.


I thought this stat was somewhat striking:
Because the study focuses on percentage increases, a gap in the study it is difficult to determine a meaningful percentage for a member who had a starting net worth in the negatives but increased to a positive net worth by 2012. However, there were substantial increases in wealth of the members who fell into this category. For the 49 members who went from a negative net worth to a positive net worth, the average increase was $3.4 million per member.

We have some members of congress who are just absolutely raking it in somehow.

For that first stat I mentioned...

For someone who has a starting net worth in the negatives, to increase their net worth by $3.4 million dollars... even if they somehow were able to completely expense (and write off) every single aspect of their lives (housing, food, medical, travel, entertainment, etc...) and paid zero tax. On $174k/year, they'd literally have to save every dime from every congressional paycheck for 19 years.

Just how much does CNN pay for a 15 minute appearance for a congressmen on a panel discussion? lol
 
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DaisyDay

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Oh...wait?... is this one of those times where we're supposed pretend that Trump is uniquely bad in some regard?
He is uniquely bad in that we've never had a convicted felon, insurrectionist and adjudicated and self-confessed sex abuser. His corruption in office may be matched by Buchanan but his solicitation of bribes (Qatari jet) is unmatched in scope and amount. I am convinced that his flagrant disregard for truth is unmatched.
 
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DaisyDay

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Just how much does CNN pay for a 15 minute appearance for a congressmen on a panel discussion? lol
Generally, $0.00 for simply appearing as that is considered a part of their public service.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Generally, $0.00 for simply appearing as that is considered a part of their public service.
So then how do we have congressmen who make the same salary I do, increasing their net worth $4 million in a period of 5 years.
 
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Vambram

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You’re fine with presidents using the office to secure private business deals for themselves?
Trump and his family had an international billion dollar business LONG before he got into politics. Should that business stop growing when he became POTUS?
 
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wing2000

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Oh...wait?... is this one of those times where we're supposed pretend that Trump is uniquely bad in some regard?

Yep. Because he is. No other president has used the office to enrich himself and his family to the degree that Donald Trump has.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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Trump and his family had an international billion dollar business LONG before he got into politics. Should that business stop growing when he became POTUS?
Answer the question. Are you fine with the president and his family using the office of the president to secure future business deals for themselves?

Aren’t you one of those that decried Joe and Hunter Biden for using the presidency to enrich themselves?
 
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Hans Blaster

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Well, if it's a loaded question being asked, why not give a loaded answer? lol

If you want to be a major player in US politics, you gotta kiss someone's rear-end and promise favors in return for campaign donations.

Not sure why that's controversial to point out.


Oh...wait?... is this one of those times where we're supposed pretend that Trump is uniquely bad in some regard?

Whoops...I missed the queue. Sorry about that. I'll fall in line and be a good boy.

Allow me to bend a knee and worship at the alter of Philosophy 101 professors:
Orange man bad... He's orange and bad and a man who's also orange and a man who's bad and orange and bad...not to mention a man and bad who's also orange...not to mention racist transphobic and bad, please tax me at 40%.


Phew, that was close...

I almost fell into the grips of the KKK until someone set me on the right path and made me see the light, and convinced that Trump is the worst human in the history of humans who's uniquely bad in every way.
I didn't say your question was "loaded". I said it was cynical. Is there any part of this post you think we should take seriously? It is not saying that Trump is uniquely bad in every way to characterize him as the most corrupt president in US history. If you think that statement is wrong, who was more corrupt?
 
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DaisyDay

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So then how do we have congressmen who make the same salary I do, increasing their net worth $4 million in a period of 5 years.
Are you including their spouse's income? Once basic necessities are met, investments can produce good returns and generally, the more you invest, the higher the returns, ime. There are also lectures and book tours which may or may not be disguised payoffs.

Of course, bribes and corruption are also a path forward. As we see at the highest levels, crime pays very well. Firing all the IGs seems to be a help rather than a hindrance.

I see you decided to not acknowledge the actual answer to your question asked.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Yep. Because he is. No other president has used the office to enrich himself and his family to the degree that Donald Trump has.
If you think that statement is wrong, who was more corrupt?

I would have to say Warren Harding, Lyndon Johnson, and Richard Nixon all rank pretty high up there.

Harding (and the Teapot Dome scandal) goes without saying...

LBJ used the FCC to give preferential treatment to radio stations that he owned.

Watergate revealed that the Nixon and his pals were certainly no strangers to slush funds, questionable "gift giving", and "unusual" cash contributions.

Bush/Cheney obviously had some noteworthy links to the defense contracting industry (in the case of Cheney) and the oil industry (in the case of Bush) that would raise a few eyebrows with regards to personal conflicts of interest.
 
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Hans Blaster

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I would have to say Warren Harding, Lyndon Johnson, and Richard Nixon all rank pretty high up there.
I tend to think of corrupt politicians as those who personally enrich themselves. On that front, it is hard to get anywhere near Trump.
Harding (and the Teapot Dome scandal) goes without saying...
There were several members of the Harding cabinet that were deep in the Teapot Dome (I have a book around here somewhere...), but like the corruption of the Grant Cabinet and Credit Mobilere (UP construction) scandal there is little to no evidence either president was personally involved or profiting. Grant was apparently blind to their corrupt actions and Harding was too busy in the closet with his mistress (and then died after 2 years).

LBJ used the FCC to give preferential treatment to radio stations that he owned.
Yep. I know about this one thanks to Robert Caro. And there is the connections he made to the Texas contractor building New Deal dams in the Texas Hill Country. (I think it was Brown and Root.) that, if I recall correctly, was also tied to those stations. LBJ certainly did manage to enrich himself in Congress.
Watergate revealed that the Nixon and his pals were certainly no strangers to slush funds, questionable "gift giving", and "unusual" cash contributions.
There was also the creative "deductions" for the donation of his papers to the archive. (Spiro Agnew was literally taking cash bribes in envelopes from his time as MD governor in the WH complex and pled no lo contedre to one count immediately after resigning.)
Bush/Cheney obviously had some noteworthy links to the defense contracting industry (in the case of Cheney) and the oil industry (in the case of Bush) that would raise a few eyebrows with regards to personal conflicts of interest.
I'm not sure if this is traditional corruption, just favoritism to old friends. The company Cheney ran prior to running for VP, Halliburton, is a construction and oil services company and one of its divisions is KBR -- Kellogg, Brown, and Root, the successor to the company LBJ was entangled with.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Are you including their spouse's income? Once basic necessities are met, investments can produce good returns and generally, the more you invest, the higher the returns, ime. There are also lectures and book tours which may or may not be disguised payoffs.
Yes, I'm not counting the "Nancy married to Paul Pelosi" type situations...I understand why people like that are rich.

I'm referring to the ones who started with an average net worth, spend a substantial portion of time in "public service" and end their tenure with millions of dollars.

I suspect for many of them, this aspect plays a factor
 
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